WWII London Conditions Today's Society

[Crown]

Look, sorry for the thread title to begin with, I just didn't know how else to put it, if a mod has a better idea for it, feel free to expand/change.

Anyway, here's my question; having recently watched 'The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe' it got me a-thinking about the conditions imposed upon WWII Londoners and what they had to do inorder to protect their kids. The wholesale shipping of children off into the country side, where the chance of them being killed by a German air raid was reduced to none was a logical move.

However my question is that if we supplent todays society, your society as is and plump it in London era during the Blitz, would you do it? Could you ship your children off to (at best) very distant relatives or (at worst) to total nameless strangers?

In conection to the above, how did our grandparent's generation do it? And why was there (to my knowledge) any real fear about the children's well being? I mean it seemed pretty voluntary and while they were crying over the separation, they weren't fretting about their children ending up being bedded with a pediophile or a mass murder.

Come to that, I'm not even aware of any reported cases of children being horribly abused when they went through this back in the day, would you feel that there is - with today's society - a greater, a lesser or an even chance of such a thing happening?

What was the difference between then and now (if there is indeed a difference)?

[Deathstalker]

It may have been that cases of pedophilia and child murders may have been underreported as compared today, and parents really didn't think much about it. The odds of something like the above happening were far longer than having some German bomb dropped on their house. It wasn't like the kids were shipped of without records or accounting. If the kids are murdered, someone will be held accountable. If the kids are sexually abused, it will be harder to hold someone accountable, as the pedophile will use the usual scare tactics. There may not have been many pedophiles in the countryside, as their hunting ground is smaller than it would be in the city.

[Admiral Valdemar]

To be honest, if modern society had to go through WWII, especially the infamous Blitz years, then they'd fold in days. I frankly don't see how any modern Western nation today can adapt to such a totally different era. Sure, a percentage will, namely those versed in the past and rationally minded (bad as a pædophile risk is, the very real risk of being blown to pieces outweighs it), but for the most part, I think the strain would crack most of them.

They say nothing sorts out a complacent society like a good war. Well, we've got loads going on, but none directly affect us or are on the scale of WWII or even WWI. So this PC world of today we live in would be hard pressed to adapt in my mind.

[Big Orange]

Why underestimate people today? People were just as scared and vulnerable then as they are today; you're only looking at a 40 to 60 year difference between our present day society and the society in WWII. Maybe people were more "simple" and could cope with the hardship that was already existing in Britain between WWI and WWII (the Depression and a callous pro-Nazi aristocracy), but I don't think every modern British person would snap.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I didn't say everyone would, just the majority who seemingly have grown up in a totally different world to that of the early 20th century.

[Crown]

Ahhh, my dreaded 20 million views but only 1 post curse ... how do I do it?

[pellaeons_scion]

Thats an interesting question there Crown. I think maybe the reason the Londoners could freely send there children away and feel safe was partly due to the idea that 'ignorance is bliss'. I mean, we are bombarded daily with reports and images of Paedophiles to the point where the average decent parent gets nervous when a stranger talks to their child (and these days that feels entirely justified). Child abuse is a fact that everyone knows about and fears. I dont have any evidence to back me up here, but maybe the thought of an adult abusing a child was so abhorrent to people back then that it was almost seen as inconceivable.

But in regards to the question if a society today was placed in the same situation if we could do it. I'd say yes. Even modern societies can adapt to tragedy and threats eventually. It might just take us longer than it might have in the past

[Talanth]

In conection to the above, how did our grandparent's generation do it?

My Grandfather was evacuated to London. I never realy asked him much about it while he was still alive, which I'm regreting now, but I got the inpresion he was born in one of the highly industrialised areas of Britan where the Germans were concentraiting on bombing far more than London. I think he was sent to London to stay with relatives.

[B5B7]

There is a British "reality" series that I recommend watching - 'The 1940s House' as this gives some real good input on how life was then, and the woman who took part learned some real good lessons about what is valuable in life.
It should be compulsory for all politicians to watch this series - as they would also learn some lessons about what is and isn't important in society.

[Netko]

To be honest, if modern society had to go through WWII, especially the infamous Blitz years, then they'd fold in days. I frankly don't see how any modern Western nation today can adapt to such a totally different era. Sure, a percentage will, namely those versed in the past and rationally minded (bad as a pædophile risk is, the very real risk of being blown to pieces outweighs it), but for the most part, I think the strain would crack most of them.

They say nothing sorts out a complacent society like a good war. Well, we've got loads going on, but none directly affect us or are on the scale of WWII or even WWI. So this PC world of today we live in would be hard pressed to adapt in my mind.

I have one word for you: Sarajevo.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I didn't say everyone would, just the majority who seemingly have grown up in a totally different world to that of the early 20th century.

It's worth pointing out here that many people in 1940 thought that the majority of Londoners would fold, but this wasn't at all the case.

[The Guid]

In fairness I think the worst situations bring out the bravest in people. Apparently on American networks after 7/7 the news talked about the idea that London may "ground to a halt" . The fact is that on 8/7 people got back on the tubes and they have continued to do so. THe first few times I did I realised that what I was doing was dangerous, but you do because you have to. Of course WWII London was more dangerous but what do you expect people to do - curl up into little balls and weep? I think it took excellent courage to do what was done, but I don't think it is a morale fibre neccessarily lacking today.

[Crown]

I remember that one WWII documentary that I saw with interviews from people of that era, they said something that stuck with me; they were ready and more than willing to give up. The only thing that kept them going was Churchill, they would hear his voice every night and it kept them going.

They both loved and hated him for it.

[Faram]

I remember that one WWII documentary that I saw with interviews from people of that era, they said something that stuck with me; they were ready and more than willing to give up. The only thing that kept them going was Churchill, they would hear his voice every night and it kept them going.

They both loved and hated him for it.

Good thing that Churchill is one of the greatest leaders ever.

I hate to think of what would had happen if Great Britain had surrendered.

[Lord Woodlouse]

To be honest, if modern society had to go through WWII, especially the infamous Blitz years, then they'd fold in days. I frankly don't see how any modern Western nation today can adapt to such a totally different era. Sure, a percentage will, namely those versed in the past and rationally minded (bad as a pædophile risk is, the very real risk of being blown to pieces outweighs it), but for the most part, I think the strain would crack most of them.

They say nothing sorts out a complacent society like a good war. Well, we've got loads going on, but none directly affect us or are on the scale of WWII or even WWI. So this PC world of today we live in would be hard pressed to adapt in my mind.

Before WW2 the United Kingdom was filled with war-weary citizens who would do virtually anything to avoid another slaughter like the one before. Given the right political conditions our citizens could be motivated to support and get behind all kinds of ways of life they'd not normally accept.

I honestly don't think we've changed all that much as people. Indeed, I think a lot of our citizens would suddenly feel they had a new sense of purpose in WW2 style conditions.

[PainRack]

Before WW2 the United Kingdom was filled with war-weary citizens who would do virtually anything to avoid another slaughter like the one before. Given the right political conditions our citizens could be motivated to support and get behind all kinds of ways of life they'd not normally accept.

I honestly don't think we've changed all that much as people. Indeed, I think a lot of our citizens would suddenly feel they had a new sense of purpose in WW2 style conditions.

That reminded me of something.

As I recall, in the 20s, many students of harvard and other top colleges in the UK signed a "Not for King and Country" declearation, choosing for pacificism. When WW2 broke out, many of the signatories voluntered for the war, even if it wasn't in a combat sense.

[Ubiquitous]

Before WW2 the United Kingdom was filled with war-weary citizens who would do virtually anything to avoid another slaughter like the one before. Given the right political conditions our citizens could be motivated to support and get behind all kinds of ways of life they'd not normally accept.

I honestly don't think we've changed all that much as people. Indeed, I think a lot of our citizens would suddenly feel they had a new sense of purpose in WW2 style conditions.

That reminded me of something.

As I recall, in the 20s, many students of harvard and other top colleges in the UK signed a "Not for King and Country" declearation, choosing for pacificism. When WW2 broke out, many of the signatories voluntered for the war, even if it wasn't in a combat sense.

Yep, there was a pretty famous incident where the Oxford student Union declared that they would not fight for Britain in 1936 IIRC, which is hardly surprising considering Oxbridge was loaded with Communist subversives such as William Norman Ewer and the Cambridge five throughout the inter-war period. Of course, the Cambridge five fought behind their decks in various roles throughout the war - but this was mainly a front to channel information to the Soviets.

[Lord Woodlouse]

The majority decision in the whole country was that Churchill was a provocative warmonger. That's the whole reason the war was so hard for us to fight, we'd been putting it off tooth and nail for years.

[PainRack]

The majority decision in the whole country was that Churchill was a provocative warmonger. That's the whole reason the war was so hard for us to fight, we'd been putting it off tooth and nail for years.

I been reading up on some literature about Churchill.

One of the many odd things I read was that apparently, the popular perception that Churchill was kicked out of power in the 30s was wrong. He wasn't removed because he viewed Germany as a threat, rather, he was isolated from power because of his attitude towards India and Indian nationalism.....

Now, it won't surprise me, considering that Churchill was the bugger who slashed the armed services in the first place but I was wondering whether the author had an axe to grind against churchill........

[Edi]

Finns sent a lot of their kids to Sweden for safety. There were thousands if not tens of thousands of them, and not all of them ever came back but stayed in Sweden instead.

So it's not something that was unique to the UK alone. I also expect that if the West had to go through something similar again, we'd see more of the same happening.

Edi