I hate fucking MS Word
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- Dendrobius
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I must be one of the lucky ones, I have nothing but good experiences with Word.
I used Word pretty much all through university, and two big things stick in my mind as to how well it worked: a 300 page group design project report which was written in individual parts by everybody and merged together by me, and my undergrad thesis which was about 80 page's worth.
The 300 page effort was massive, but Word performed flawlessly. I first gave everybody a template to work off (Styles for headings, figures, etc all set up, numbers, listings, etc) and taught them how to use it (please don't just bold crap for headings, select Style: Heading 1 instead). In the end we had about 24 reports which needed to be merged into one document. The merging was done without any problems: all the sections, subsections, figure numberings updated themselves perfectly. I then put in the Table of Contents, Table of Figures, etc automatically, and it all worked straight off the bat. Try doing THAT in Latex, or OpenOffice. This includes lots and lots of pictures, graphs and results from Excel, footnote references, everything you'd expect to see in an academic report. I spent more time merging the documents together than ironing out problems with the numbering or formatting of the document. 9 people wrote the 24 reports between them, all on their own computers and in their own time; more than a few used to hate Word and were in the "Too 1337 for M$ Products" crew, but after seeing how well it worked they conceded that it would not have happened had we used Latex as they suggested in the beginning.
My undergrad thesis was just as smooth an experience. Everything worked as advertised...styles made life easy, links worked, I spent more time thinking about how to write it and how I wanted it to look than actually getting it done.
In my experience a lot of the problems people have with MS products can be put down to PEBKAC.
I used Word pretty much all through university, and two big things stick in my mind as to how well it worked: a 300 page group design project report which was written in individual parts by everybody and merged together by me, and my undergrad thesis which was about 80 page's worth.
The 300 page effort was massive, but Word performed flawlessly. I first gave everybody a template to work off (Styles for headings, figures, etc all set up, numbers, listings, etc) and taught them how to use it (please don't just bold crap for headings, select Style: Heading 1 instead). In the end we had about 24 reports which needed to be merged into one document. The merging was done without any problems: all the sections, subsections, figure numberings updated themselves perfectly. I then put in the Table of Contents, Table of Figures, etc automatically, and it all worked straight off the bat. Try doing THAT in Latex, or OpenOffice. This includes lots and lots of pictures, graphs and results from Excel, footnote references, everything you'd expect to see in an academic report. I spent more time merging the documents together than ironing out problems with the numbering or formatting of the document. 9 people wrote the 24 reports between them, all on their own computers and in their own time; more than a few used to hate Word and were in the "Too 1337 for M$ Products" crew, but after seeing how well it worked they conceded that it would not have happened had we used Latex as they suggested in the beginning.
My undergrad thesis was just as smooth an experience. Everything worked as advertised...styles made life easy, links worked, I spent more time thinking about how to write it and how I wanted it to look than actually getting it done.
In my experience a lot of the problems people have with MS products can be put down to PEBKAC.
I know there is a method, but all I see is the madness.
Word 2003's large-document handling appears to have been substantially improved - previously I've heard horror stories with most switching to FrameMaker or LaTeX.Dendrobius wrote:I must be one of the lucky ones, I have nothing but good experiences with Word.
Um, I'd expect it to work very well in LaTeX. However, training your group in it might be much more effort than worthwhile so Word was a good choice.The merging was done without any problems: all the sections, subsections, figure numberings updated themselves perfectly. I then put in the Table of Contents, Table of Figures, etc automatically, and it all worked straight off the bat. Try doing THAT in Latex, or OpenOffice.
The problem is that the intuitive way to use Word is not to use the style system, so not too many people use it. Microsoft really needs to push how to use Word well.In my experience a lot of the problems people have with MS products can be put down to PEBKAC.
After having Word eat my History Final outline, then my WIP History Final, then my actual final paper twice, I gave up on it completely. It would do it randomly, too. I printed out my outline just fine. Come back next week, edit it to reflect a slight change in topic, save it and go to sleep. Try to print the next day and it can't find the document. Ok, so it's just an outline. Retype and print on the spot. Good and dandy. Come back the next day and start paper. Finish paper six hours later, save and go to bed (guess what's coming up). Next day, try to print paper and ... it can't find it?! You have to be kidding me?! Ok, so I'll just retype it and print it on the spot. Spend the next 4-1/2 hours retyping it, and try to print. Error, Word crashes and eats my paper again.
It's now very late and the paper is due in approx. eight hours. Spend the next four hours retyping it yet again. Print a substandard POS paper because it's 4AM and I was supposed to be asleep six hours ago. Go to sleep, get two hours and get a B on a topic I should've aced because by the time I managed to get Word to give me my damn paper I was too tired to spellcheck and proof-read properly, plus I'd forgotten things that I put in the original.
It's now very late and the paper is due in approx. eight hours. Spend the next four hours retyping it yet again. Print a substandard POS paper because it's 4AM and I was supposed to be asleep six hours ago. Go to sleep, get two hours and get a B on a topic I should've aced because by the time I managed to get Word to give me my damn paper I was too tired to spellcheck and proof-read properly, plus I'd forgotten things that I put in the original.
MFS Angry Wookiee - PRFYNAFBTFC
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
First off, save and save often. Secondly, that sort of stuff shouldn't happen unless the system you are using is unstable or overtaxed (RAM, RAM and more RAM). With a stable system I've yet to hear of Word 2003 catastrophicly crashing, and even on unstable system I've never heard of it losing its autosave, which is usualy a paragraph or two maximum from your original, and I do tech support for a small architectual office which routinly produces 1000-3000 page projects in Word on machines in the 1Ghz range (it works, so why fuck with it is their moto).
I've used various versions of Word from version 6, up to 2k7 (6 at home for a few elementary school projects), 97 at middle school, 2k at home/High school - and for certain university papers, 2k3 at Copeland for reports, and 2k7 for papers now that it is out). I was for the most part able to avoid using versions 6 and 97 by using wordperfect, but I was stuck with versions 2k and 2k3 for a good 4 years. In that time I never lost mre than a page at a time, and a total of more than 10 pages [all under 2k].
Vicious: If you lose papers all of the time, try emailing them to yourself, or saving them to some removeable media. if that's not an option, save them to your desktop or my docs. I have a directory in my docs called 'School Work' that I have broken down by school-term-class.
I think the Beta for 2k7 is still open, so you could download it, and try it out. For comparing 2k7 to OOo2.1.1 I'd have to say that it's a dead heat. The OOo interface is much closer to what I'm used to, but the ribon/tab set up in 2k7 seems very clean, and slightly more intuitive.Admiral Valdemar wrote:Now that OOo 2.1 is out, I honestly have to see Office 2k7 to believe it's any good now. Far, far too much bloat and a lot of really counter intuitive stuff.
I haven't seen it in 2k7 yet, and I've been using 2k7 for a few weeks now.And that fucking paperclip.
Vicious: If you lose papers all of the time, try emailing them to yourself, or saving them to some removeable media. if that's not an option, save them to your desktop or my docs. I have a directory in my docs called 'School Work' that I have broken down by school-term-class.
"I believe in the future. It is wonderful because it stands on what has been achieved." - Sergei Korolev
The problem with that is that Word will occasionally crash while attempting to save, which wipes out everything I just did. I have given up on word completely for anything longer than a page or two and just use OpenOffice.MariusRoi wrote: Vicious: If you lose papers all of the time, try emailing them to yourself, or saving them to some removeable media. if that's not an option, save them to your desktop or my docs. I have a directory in my docs called 'School Work' that I have broken down by school-term-class.
MFS Angry Wookiee - PRFYNAFBTFC
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
- Darth Wong
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To be honest, all word processors tend to suffer from the same kinds of foibles and weaknesses. At least OpenOffice is free, which is why I use it. I've never used a word processor which didn't make me say "why the fuck did they put that option there?" at least once.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
I typed my entire fucking thesis on Word (XP if that's what it is called), I really don't understand people's bitchin' about it.
Η ζωή, η ζωή εδω τελειώνει!
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Sorry, but that means something is fucked up. This is not normal behaviour. Perhaps you had a virus infection that tried to use word's extensibility and fucked it up? Is your RAM ok? Do you have enough RAM (ie not 128 mb on a XP system)?Vicious wrote:The problem with that is that Word will occasionally crash while attempting to save, which wipes out everything I just did. I have given up on word completely for anything longer than a page or two and just use OpenOffice.MariusRoi wrote: Vicious: If you lose papers all of the time, try emailing them to yourself, or saving them to some removeable media. if that's not an option, save them to your desktop or my docs. I have a directory in my docs called 'School Work' that I have broken down by school-term-class.
512mb RAM currently, so no issues there. I'm not really sure what was causing it. This machine is running Windows 98 (it's my dad's machine, and he refuses to upgrade), so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I know that this machine is far more unstable than our laptop which came with XP installed, but I don't know if that's affecting Word or not.mmar wrote:Sorry, but that means something is fucked up. This is not normal behaviour. Perhaps you had a virus infection that tried to use word's extensibility and fucked it up? Is your RAM ok? Do you have enough RAM (ie not 128 mb on a XP system)?Vicious wrote:The problem with that is that Word will occasionally crash while attempting to save, which wipes out everything I just did. I have given up on word completely for anything longer than a page or two and just use OpenOffice.MariusRoi wrote: Vicious: If you lose papers all of the time, try emailing them to yourself, or saving them to some removeable media. if that's not an option, save them to your desktop or my docs. I have a directory in my docs called 'School Work' that I have broken down by school-term-class.
MFS Angry Wookiee - PRFYNAFBTFC
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
Having 98 in this day and age is bad, very very bad for a multitude of reasons (out of any support, much more unstable, etc. etc.). Especialy if the computer can handle XP (which, unless the processor is truly ancient, ie sub-500mhz, it can handle just fine with 512 RAM). Now I wouldn't guarantee that having XP would solve this (I'm also guessing that the Word version is similarly ancient - 97 or 2000 - versions I agree suck compared to modern word processors), but it certanly wouldn't hurt.
- Durandal
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LaTeX handles it just fine. How about you try making equations that don't look like shit in Word?Dendrobius wrote:I then put in the Table of Contents, Table of Figures, etc automatically, and it all worked straight off the bat. Try doing THAT in Latex, or OpenOffice.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
I personally ran XP on a K6II 366 with 256 RAM laptop up to half a year ago, when it all went to hell hardware wise. It was as you say for 2000, running, if a bit slowly.phongn wrote:Windows 2000 will run on a P2-300MHz with 128MB of RAM, if a bit slowly. Hell, I used to run XP on a 650MHz P3M with 320MB of RAM without problem.
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I found Word 2000 to be a nasty piece of work. On several occasions, I acutely desired to engage in violent and/or illegal conduct towards its developers. It was horrific.
Then I upgraded to 2003.
Word 2003 is everything a word processor should be. Easy, intuitive, and enjoyable, and as an added plus, its compatible with the digital ink features on my tablet PCs. I have a feeling Microsoft will fuck it up again for the next issue of Office, so I suggest stocking up on the current edition while it is still availible. Office 2003, with the exception of FrontPage, Access, and Publisher, is absolute enterprise-grade software.
However, for someone who does not need that level of sophistication, OpenOffice is probably a better bet. Also, I've heard great things about Apple's Pages software, and I'm seriously tempted to buy a Mac Mini and iWork just to give it a shot.
Then I upgraded to 2003.
Word 2003 is everything a word processor should be. Easy, intuitive, and enjoyable, and as an added plus, its compatible with the digital ink features on my tablet PCs. I have a feeling Microsoft will fuck it up again for the next issue of Office, so I suggest stocking up on the current edition while it is still availible. Office 2003, with the exception of FrontPage, Access, and Publisher, is absolute enterprise-grade software.
However, for someone who does not need that level of sophistication, OpenOffice is probably a better bet. Also, I've heard great things about Apple's Pages software, and I'm seriously tempted to buy a Mac Mini and iWork just to give it a shot.
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer."
- Dendrobius
- Mecha Fanboy
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- Location: Sydney, Australia
By "Try doing that in Latex" I mean "try and get 9 random people to all use Latex or OpenOffice to write 24 reports, then merge all those reports and get the final product to work straight off the bat". Everybody in the group was an Aerospace Eng undergrad, half of us had never even heard of Latex, let alone have some varient of *nix installed. Trying to install and teach them how to use Latex would have been a major headache which was unnecessary. Getting a common template to everybody and quickly going over how to use it took all of 10 minutes. User friendliness helps a lot.Durandal wrote:LaTeX handles it just fine. How about you try making equations that don't look like shit in Word?Dendrobius wrote:I then put in the Table of Contents, Table of Figures, etc automatically, and it all worked straight off the bat. Try doing THAT in Latex, or OpenOffice.
Not to mention, everybody's report had unique photos, diagrams, charts and whatnot. At least when they tossed me the report it's just one .doc file per report, not multiple files which I understand would be the case in Latex if I want to still be able to edit the file. The ability also to just simply cut and paste charts and graphs straight from Excel into Word, and for the report to still be just one .doc file saved me some serious headaches.
As for nice equations, plenty of tools available. I used to use MathCast, and I have used the old MS Equation Editor 3.0 which was definitely clunky but did the job. Both takes about 3 seconds to learn.
I know there is a method, but all I see is the madness.