Muslim sexism in weddings

[Srynerson]

A "bride purchase" can be symbolic even if real money changes hands. My uncle, who is married to a Chinese woman, paid a sum of money to his wife's parents as "compensation" for her unmarried older sister as part of the Chinese wedding ceremony they had (they also had a Christian wedding ceremony as well). Her parents then apparently returned the money to him after he and his wife got back from their honeymoon.

[Broomstick]

And I thought fundie Jews were bad.

Even the most fundamentalist of Jews have bride and groom together during the ceremony. They do frequently segregate the sexes in public, but the space is typically divided equally and the barrier is a symbolic rope, not an actual wall. In other words, the mere site of women in public do not drive the men into some bizarre frenzy... which seems to be what the Muslim fuckers fear. Which doesn't make me very impressed with the self-control of men who can't be trusted to be in the same general area a woman without being expected to go insane or something.

The head coverings are somewhat of a bugaboo -- the headscarves worn by many Muslim women are no more repressive than the requirements that orthodox and "fundy" Jewish women to never show their hair in public (if you do see hair on a married Jewish woman of that sort it's a wig). They don't block vision, they don't restrict movement. Now, forcing women to wear encumbering garments that DO restrict movement/vision is another thing entirely - such as the Afghani Burqa. Pre-Taliban, however, it was considered reasonable under some circumstances, such as when safety was a concern, for a woman to pull aside the veil briefly. The current knickers-in-a-twist of Fundy Muslims is a cranking up of their beliefs/practices to levels historically unheard of.

The Koran does not, in fact, mandate that woman cover their head, their hair, or their bodies. What it does say is to dress modestly, and that applies to everyone. Which is why many moderate Muslims around the world do not demand women be walking bundles of rags, or even insist on headscarves. Once again, we have a group of assholes who want to dictate their customs to the rest of the world.

[FSTargetDrone]

In other words, the mere site of women in public do not drive the men into some bizarre frenzy... which seems to be what the Muslim fuckers fear. Which doesn't make me very impressed with the self-control of men who can't be trusted to be in the same general area a woman without being expected to go insane or something.

When some societies insist on the severe segregation of women, limiting their freedom to go out in public without escorts, mandating full-body covering and the like, in short, making women as some sort of mysterious, forbidden fruit, is it any wonder that some of the men might not know how to act properly towards them?

[StarshipTitanic]

He's not advocating the destruction of the West. According to current political doctrine, that makes him a moderate.

Heh, true enough. It would have been funnier if he himself claimed it, then told his wife to go back behind the drapes.

[ArmorPierce]

umm... I come from a muslim family, have gone to numerous weddings, and never have I've seen any of that shit done. That's not exactly moderate Islam, who said it was?

[xerex]

In the Islamic weddings i've been to the Bride Price/Dowry is paid to the BRIDE. Its hers to keep, even if they subsequently divorce.

Also the groom askes the Brides fathers if he can marry the daughter. Father then goes to Bride ( hidden out of sight ) to ask. If she agrees they both come back.

men and women are seperated but its along the lines of left/right side of the 'aisle'.

at least that's how its done in my country.

[CJvR]

...making my way into the women's chamber to stay with my wife.

Depending on how "moderate" they were he could have been killed for trying that.

[Broomstick]

umm... I come from a muslim family, have gone to numerous weddings, and never have I've seen any of that shit done. That's not exactly moderate Islam, who said it was?

Apparently someone who doesn't know the meaning of "moderate".

[wolveraptor]

Ahem.

He's not advocating the destruction of the West. According to current political doctrine, that makes him a moderate.

It makes sense to me. This family is moderate on a global scale, if not a Western one.

[Netko]

It might be moderate on an Middle east Muslim derived scale, but on an overall global Muslim scale it is most definatly not moderate as ArmorPierce and I have indicated (this kind of shit wouldn't fly in Bosnia, Turkey and probably among most of SE Asia Muslims).

[wolveraptor]

You misunderstand. On a global scale, Bosnia, Turkey, and most of Southeast Asia are moderate, because the Middle East occupies the wing that we would refer to as extreme.

[AniThyng]

You misunderstand. On a global scale, Bosnia, Turkey, and most of Southeast Asia are moderate, because the Middle East occupies the wing that we would refer to as extreme.

But as pointed out, the level of repression in the OP you'll be hard pressed to find in those moderate muslim countries. I won't say it is impossible obviously, but it isn't for the average person.

[Plekhanov]

And I thought fundie Jews were bad.

I'm not sure even religious Jews would accept anything like this. In most Synagogues I've been at, it's been mostly seperate but equal, which is apprently beyond Islam.

That’s odd I've heard that under Orthodox Judaism women aren’t all that equal (men being able to summarily divorce infertile women and so forth) is this not the case?

[Netko]

You misunderstand. On a global scale, Bosnia, Turkey, and most of Southeast Asia are moderate, because the Middle East occupies the wing that we would refer to as extreme.

Right, and, as AniThyng points out that means that they are the moderates, and not the example in the OP if you look at a global scale.

[wolveraptor]

However, since this family does not openly advocate violent or seditious views towards the West, they sure can't be said to be as extreme as those of the Middle East. Perhaps they're more conservative than the mentioned countries, but less so than, say, Saudi Arabia.

[Ace Pace]

And I thought fundie Jews were bad.

I'm not sure even religious Jews would accept anything like this. In most Synagogues I've been at, it's been mostly seperate but equal, which is apprently beyond Islam.

That’s odd I've heard that under Orthodox Judaism women aren’t all that equal (men being able to summarily divorce infertile women and so forth) is this not the case?

Very much depends.

Haridim jews(fundies, not religious) maybe, not the normal religious orthodox.

[Netko]

Sigh, round and round we go. You could call them part of the politicly moderate part of Islam, however religiously, which we are discussing here, as you yourself point out, they are not and since you could hardly call the mentioned moderate countries liberal, they are baseline moderates. The family in question is religiously conservative, but not extremist (altough they are pretty near the line IMHO). They are religiously moderate compared to the extremists, but not compared to all Muslims.

[Netko]

The above is an response to Wolveraptor, Ace sneaked in a post while I was composing mine.

[wolveraptor]

I'll agree to that.

[Broomstick]

And I thought fundie Jews were bad.

I'm not sure even religious Jews would accept anything like this. In most Synagogues I've been at, it's been mostly seperate but equal, which is apprently beyond Islam.

That’s odd I've heard that under Orthodox Judaism women aren’t all that equal (men being able to summarily divorce infertile women and so forth) is this not the case?

The equality or lack of it in Judaism would probably be best explored in a separate thread. It's a question complicated not only by the branch of Judaism you're talking about but also the cultural context of where Jews are coming from since they have experienced considerable outside influence over the millenia.

[The Yosemite Bear]

now I knoow why Marjian liked western boys so much... (Iranian Refugee I knew in Higfh School)

[The Vodka Vindicator]

These people don't seem moderate, they seem reactionary to me.

[R. U. Serious]

And this is what they call "moderate" Islam.

Does your brother's friend claim to be a "moderate Muslim"?

He's not advocating the destruction of the West. According to current political doctrine, that makes him a moderate.

That must be the stupidest thing I have ever read from you. Violence/non-violence is a different attribute than moderate/fundamentalist. What is described is non-violent fundamentalists.


There was nothing moderate about what you are describing. How do I know? Because I was at dozens of muslim marriages, muslims from different countries, and none were anything like that. Families were sitting together and dancing together, The bride was taking just as much part in the ceremony as was the man.

[Darth Wong]

That must be the stupidest thing I have ever read from you. Violence/non-violence is a different attribute than moderate/fundamentalist. What is described is non-violent fundamentalists.

Bullshit. He does not even advocate the destruction of the west, never mind actually committing violent acts in order to bring it about. The real fundie Muslims are convinced that the West is immoral and should be destroyed, at least in terms of its culture and way of government. Coincidentally enough, fundie Christians often believe pretty much the same thing: that our secular authorities must be brought down and replaced with the Tender Loving Rule of Christ at some point in the future.

There was nothing moderate about what you are describing. How do I know? Because I was at dozens of muslim marriages, muslims from different countries, and none were anything like that. Families were sitting together and dancing together, The bride was taking just as much part in the ceremony as was the man.

Good for them. And I can also say that I know fundie Christians who don't do that "woman must know her place" bullshit either, but that doesn't refute the fact that there is a large and virulent strain of misogynism running through fundie Christian thought.

[Wanderer]

Good for them. And I can also say that I know fundie Christians who don't do that "woman must know her place" bullshit either, but that doesn't refute the fact that there is a large and virulent strain of misogynism running through fundie Christian thought.

In my community, there is a Christian Fundie group that has its female members veil because its in the Bible. My wife talked to these women and the vast majority actually like being veiled. All the more power to them I say. But, a few are veiling because they fear God's wrath/their Husband and thats unacceptable. No one should be held captive to fear. Everyone is free to do what they please so long as they do not infringe on others rights.

This isn't the worst Christian fundie group though.