It's coming down to the remaining cultists who cannot see the writing on the wall and seem already to be breaking out the Kool Aid.
Anyway, for your entertainment, some extracts from TrekWeb. Names and e-mail addresses have been redacted:
http://talk.trekweb.com/cgi-bin/msgboar ... fY&parent=
Here are the kinds of decent numbers Nemesis would get in the coming days and weeks, but ONLY!, if the majority of the audience liked the movie and therefore it should give word of mouth to encourage more viewers to see the flick.
Opening Weekend: $18,750
Week #1
Mon: $2,893
Tue: $2,657
Wed: $4,775
Thu: $6,318
Fri: $7,910
Sat: $5,789
Sun: $4,129
Weekend Total: $17,828
Tota Gross: $53,221
Week #2
Mon: $1,329
Tue: $1,856
Wed: $1,967
Thu: $2,285
Fri: $5,912
Sat: $4,367
Sun: $3,983
Weekend Total: $14.262
Total Gross: $74.920
Week #3
Mon: $,932
Tue: $,835
Wed: $1,070
Thu: $2,552
Fri: $6,043
Sat: $4,589
Sun: $3,050
Weekend Total: $13,682
Total Gross: $ 93.991
Week #4
Mon: $,546
Tue: $,478
Wed: $,678
Thu: $,854
Fri: $1,456
Sat: $1,089
Sun: $,934
Weekend Total: $3,479
Total Gross: $100.026
Week #5
Mon: $,246
Tue: $,185
Wed: $,376
Thu: $,789
Fri: $1,024
Sat: $,812
Sun: $,715
Weekend Total: $2,551
Total Gross: $104,173
Week #6
Mon: $,152
Tue: $,257
Wed: $,312
Thu: $,694
Fri: $1,007
Sat: $,845
Sun: $,432
Weekend Total: $2,284
Total Gross: $ 107.872
Week #7
Mon: $,075
Tue: $,098
Wed: $,109
Thu: $,277
Fri: $,513
Sat: $,345
Sun: $,132
Weekend Total: $0.990
Total Gross: 109.421
I truly hope Nemesis does well at the boxoffice.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I truly hope it does well too. I've been so damn depressed all weekend about it I feel silly. I think that word of mouth will generally be positive. Again, I thought that Titanic was going to be THE biggest bomb in history when it debuted in 1997. Not that I'm comparing Nemesis in ANYWAY to Titanic as far as budget or story, but word of mouth was so positive for it that it consistantly made 25 million for several weekends.
I'm so looking forward to the Two Towers coming out, but I wish it wasn't coming out for another week--or two--to allow Nemesis a little more breathing room.
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Well, it'd be nice but this week is LOTR week (so especially Wed. & Fri. probably will be very disappointing). However, after the initial LOTR excitement dwindles, I think it's possible that the numbers might point to a more positive outlook. Instead of $100 million, I think just trying to reach the $70 mill or so that INS got should be the main goal first.
I think realistically the true rebound for the movie rests with the international release.
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"I think I preferred listening to the damn liberals in the political debates rather than wading through the endless ruckus about Nemesis..."
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
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It's not over until it's over!
This contest isn't over yet my friends! Many LOTR fans are also Star Trek fans, so people will see Nemisis as an alternative (LOTR fans won't see Maid in Manhattan as an alternative...I hope). I also believe that DVD sales are going to be stellar as compared to J. Lo's DVD sales. Several people will also see Nemisis again next week......
One of the general complains was that the film felt choppy, as in it's too rushed, too dragged on, not enough drama in key areas. Stewart whatshisface also mentioned that he didn't want to include a directors cut. He really should reconsider. While the film was great, I felt it could have been "proofread" a little better. It's kind of like turning a B paper into an A paper. So the next phase should be to make a great DVD, with better marketing strategies I might add.
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
The fat andriod has sung...
Its over...
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Humans aren't the only species on the planet Earth. We just act like it.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
That is what they said about Star Trek in 1969 and the situation looked a lot more bleak then.
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Hell No!! It's people like you who are killing the franchise. Where are all the die hard fans. Why aren't you people seeing the movie. Do you want to know why trek is failing, its you people. Nemesis wasn't the greatest movie of all time, it had its problems, but it was still a pretty decenent movie. My love of star trek is making me see this movie several times to support those characters I have come to adore. The fat android didn't stop singing so I say trek still lives as long as we go out there and get ticket sales up. I bet you haven't even seen the movie yet have you? So what are you going to do to save trek???
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Star Trek will never be dead
I totally agree that the fat android WILL serenade again. But I must comment that Star Trek will NEVER die...NEVER. They may not have another movie for a while, but there are also 5 series, 10 movies, tons of novels etc. Star Trek will be on TV, and everywhere, until the end of time.
Fans should also see this movie more than once, because during the second time, you pick up more details that you may have missed on the first viewing.
I also believe that Nemisis, in the end, will fork in more money than J.Low.
I still know a lot of people who want to see the movie, but never wanted to wait in long lineups. Also consider this..... even though some may consider it a "flop"....how many Star Trek movies have REALLY flopped in the past? Not many. It's not like Star Trek has reached the levels of JASON X yet!.......... (didn't Jason go to hell in part 9???)
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Well so far Nemesis is running below Insurrection on the Rotten Tomatoes review index
Currently it's at 43 percent and in the rotten category, while even Insurrection is at 59 percent. While First Contact was at 93 percent. While RT uses some non-standard reviews in the mix, the numbers are still troubling.
It's bad enough that Nemesis was opening in a very competitive spot that was doomed to seriously hurt its box office, but at least it should have had critical opinion on its side. In part the higher expectations for films in a high end season and reviewer burnout likely also lowered the reviews that Star Trek might have gotten, with fewer reviewers being in the mood to put up with another Star Trek feature. Certainly Ebert's review which doesn't relate to the movie itself, but involves unproffesional off-topic bitching about pre-existing Star Trek issues reflects that kind of mood.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Well, I've come out of my self imposed exile, just for a moment, to express my view on Nemesis. For me, Nemesis was the last hope for Star Trek. Enterprise finished the job that Voyager started, and the TNG crew, held onto the last hope of redemption. Well, I give up. The hell with Star Trek.
Nemesis BLOWS! I give up. I, from this point forward, will no longer watch ANY form of this dead franchise. I grew up on TNG, and to see all of those years of fandom, time, and money, spit back in my face by this latest bastardization of Trek, is completley unacceptable.
So, for those of you who think ENT and Nemesis are quality Trek, fine. You wim, you can have it, I give up. For me, Star Trek now sucks.
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"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization"
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I know how you feel. I have been hanging on for the last few years hopping for something to happen. DS9 was the last and best Trek IMO. All the TNG movies have been sub- par. I guess TNG was never meant to be translated to the movie format. The TNG films bear little resemblance to the show I used to enjoy. It seems every TNG movie has turned out to be a battle for something. What happened to all the high concept sci fi from the show? Even the more action oriented TOS managed to pull of two successful movies with no "battles" (TMP and TVH). I think we are finally seeing the death of and old friend.
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Humans aren't the only species on the planet Earth. We just act like it.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Ouch. I haven't seen it yet myself but that's a pretty strong reaction considering that even most of the negative reactions have no real fire to them.
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Well, think of how I feel though. Star Trek has always been a part of my life. No matter where I went, or what situation my life was in, there was always room, and time for Star Trek.
It's the only thing that me and my father actually enjoyed doing together. It's something that I've spent countless hours doing. Whether it be models or reading the books. Star Trek has always been forefront in my life. It's always been something for me to hang onto, when everything else has gone to shit.
Now I've gotta let it go. It's been twisted and mangled to the point where it's just not worth it anymore. I'm tired of uttering the same arguments and complaints that have been said a million times before, and have fallen on deaf (and dumb?) ears.
So yeah, I'm not dissapointed about it, I'm not saddened or frustrated about it, I'm outright angry, that something that is such a large part of my life, has been destroyed.
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Nemesis is just a Warth of Kahn redux. They took the best Trek movie, and tried to dupilcate it, with what seems like cheap fan fic. It seemed like they had filmed all the scenes using a different director for each, then pasting them all together in hopes of making a complete movie.
The nods to previous stories and events are overdone. The dialogue made me cringe on more than one occasion i.e: "The Romulans fought with honor.." The scene on Kolaris 3 with Picard driving the suped up dune buggy was ridiculous in and of itself. Even the toast at the wedding made me want to turn my head and stare at the walls around me.
Why does Nemesis blow? Because they took the last shred of dignity that Trek had left, spit on it, and stomped it into the ground.
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"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization"
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You're way off base. If you hadn't read that KHAN was Logan's inspiration you wouldn't even have noticed the similarities. Newsflash: crazy villain goes after Earth is a staple of sci-fi/fantasy. Get over it. KHAN did not invent that plot.
If you didn't like the wedding scene then it's not even worth debating this film for you. After three films of crap slapstick like "I hope you remember how to fire phasers" and "firming boobs," we finally get good humor that works very well and you cringe?
Half of Khan's lines are cringe-worthy, frankly. That's why they're so good.
You are out of touch. What do you want from a TNG movie, anyway?
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Nemesis is sub standard to say the least. Granted, there are some great scenes, in fact, ALOT of the scenes are good. Mostly between Picard and Shinzon. The problem is, the scenes don't live up to each other. It seems as if somebody sat down and decided to finally give us everything we ever asked for, but had no idea how to work it all into the same film.
And then top THAT off, with the crappy scenes, and you have sub-standard Trek.
It didn't flow right, from the moment the first scene was over, it felt like everything had been glued together just to see what would happen.
You mean to tell me that the "Mental rape" scene was necessarry, and didn't make you cringe?
And as for being out of touch, great. That's wonderfully constructive debate now isn't it?
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"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization"
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I don't think rottentomatoes is a good measuring stick as far as comparing reviews of Trek movies. The site is fairly new, I am pretty sure it started after "Insurrection" premiered. So the number of reviews they list for older movies is lower (the older the movie, the lower the number of reviews). The number of reviews for NEM is already twice the number for INS and the other Trek movies only have a few reviews.
I think the general public is kind of tired of Trek and a lot of critics are reflecting that (so is the boxoffice returns). Quite a few of reviews that I have read (e.g. USA Today & Ebert reviews) are just cheap shots at the whole franchise. They don't do any in depth review of the movie.
Kind of a shame, since I think the movie is really good.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
All of my friends, and myself, have said, "it was good, I enjoyed it" but nobody is raving about it.
After Generations and First Contact we went home raving and yelling about how excited we were. I don't know, maybe we're getting older, or it's been a few movies now, I don't know.
Nobody's raving. My fellow trek fans are saying, yeah, I liked it. There aren't even that many "buts," but everyone is strangely subdued. I don't know why.
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Vulcan's stayed to help Humans 90 years ago. We're still there.
--T'Pol
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Not me. After FC I was incredibly underwhelmed. The time travel plot had no relation to the Borg. The first act of the movie was 10 minutes. The end was a cop-out. FC is soooooooo overrated.
GEN same thing. No excitement when I emerged. NEMESIS is the first TNG movie that I came out excited to see again.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
FC *is* overrated. I think I rated it two or three up from the bottom in another thread... Not only did they bust out with some cheesy time travel, they bastardized the concept of the Borg and demoted them to just another alien of the week. I liked it better than Generations (my all-time least favorite), but I walked out with just a sort of "Oh." attitude about it.
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I think definitely a lot of reviewers were just off the mark. Ebert's review was a complete joke. Fan reaction has been quite positive. Have you seen it yet? Go help the box office!
I have to echo other comments though that it seems like a strangely weak box office overall, what gives? Perhaps Dec 6 would've been a wiser choice...
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Yes, Ebert's review was a joke. As I said in the Ebert & Roeper thread, Ebert looked like an idiot in reviewing Nemesis. He basically didn't say anything about the movie and just complained about the shields and stuff like that. I thought Roeper (who gave a glowing review to Nemesis) kicked Ebert's ass. He even pointed out that Ebert was just nit-picking and not saying anything of substance.
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The problem is that the studio decided that Nemesis would be their big high profile December release and that was just not a good idea because TNG can make money but it's not in the leauge of 800 pound gorilla franchises like James Bond, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. That kind of effect, after the disasters of K-19 and Four Feathers is what Paramount was hoping for and they may end up with a third disaster on their hands before the year is through.
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I don't know if Rottentomatoes counts. I think that site is all about well, rotten tomatoes i.e. bitter people. All the reason here is overwhelmingly positive with only a few detractors. Have you seen it yet? Go help the box office!
I have to echo other comments though that it seems like a strangely weak box office overall, what gives? Perhaps Dec 6 would've been a wiser choice...
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I Just Don't Get It
The whole Trek community seems to be twisting their heads and saying "HUH?".
The majority (of which I'm a part of) think this is the best TNG and possibly the best Trek movie ever, so why is the box office so low? Even Maid In Manhattan isn't doing so well. Did NEM open too close to Christmas? Are people too busy at this point to catch a movie? Are they broke? My fuel line was leaking like the Titanic so I spent $20 in gas just to see the damn movie!
I'm thinking if NEM opened just two weeks before Harry Potter it would have done much better. The Wrath of Khan opened in June. Nowadays there's lots of competition in the summer (God forbid it go against Spidey) but I don't think winter is a good time to release a Trek movie.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
We don't have any solid box office figures yet
But it's likely that the box office might be spread over several strong entries and Nemesis just isn't making the splash at this time of year that it might have in October or September.
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I just don't get it either. This movie is the best thing that's happened to Star Trek in a long time. My father has been a fan longer than I have (he was a young adult when TOS first aired), and he even loved it. The showing we saw was almost completely full, and when we came out there was a line out the door for the next showing. Just judging by that, I predicted much higher numbers for opening night and was surprised when I saw the reality here this morning.
I cannot stress this to people enough: ignore the bad reviews. Read Steve's at least, take your family and friends, AND GO SEE THE FRIGGIN MOVIE!
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I read both the message board here, and the official one at startrek.com
There is definately a polarization of Star Trek fans. 80% of the fans either love or hate the movie. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally, there is no middle ground.
The official site has nothing but endless banter of how bad the movie is. However, the fans here and at movies.yahoo.com mostly liked the movie.
Maybe it is impossible for Star Trek to move forward without losing fans. Now that the franchise is no longer new and fresh, every fan feels like they know how to fix it. Fans of a newbie franchise do not feel like they know enough about it, therefore they are left only to anticipate the next film.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Petition to tell Paramount we liked Nemesis and want more good TNG films like this...
Hey I haven't done so yet... but I am thinking about creating a petition to tell Paramount we loved Nemesis and want more quality TNG on the big screen like this. I just wanted to make sure before I did that someone else hadn't already done this. I'm also going to find some e-mail addys at Paramount and at startrek.com that we can send our letter of support to. Hey I'm thinking about using petition online, are they the best site for this sort of stuff.
Here's hoping we make Paramount realize there are still many loyal life long fans of Star Trek and its core ideals that will never jump ship.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I agree. There probably isn't any harm in a petition, but money talks and BS walks (although Berman still has a job for the moment
). If you liked Nemesis and want more TNG on the big screen, see it again, and drag whoever you can to see it. If you haven't checked it out again, please do, and if LOTR sells out in your town, suggest Nemesis to your friends as an alternative. [ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I agree. I think we need to have a campaign to save TNG. We all know what the fate of trek is so we should all being supporting this film instead of complaining on this message board about how trek is dead or how the movie sucked. I thought it was great and if you did too go see it again. Let the box office really reflect what the true fans want and that is another trek film.
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Not every successful film had a big opening weekend, ya know
Movies like "Star Wars" (the original release in 1977), "The Crow" and "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" steadily grew over their repspective theatre runs into legitimate hits. TWOK actually had a higher grossing opening weekend than TVH did. Word of mouth propelled these flicks to success, not positive reviews (especially with SW, a movie the critics despised).
The same thing could happen with NEM, although I'm not banking on numbers beyond $100 million. A lot of non-Trekkers/casual fans are now going to see NEM based solely on my recommendation. Word of mouth can and often does sell tickets.
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I wish it wasn't so, Ro, but the situation looks pretty bleak. All three of the TNG films had a domestic gross roughly three times their opening weekends. If NEM performs similarly its looking at a domestic gross of only $ 60 million. Even if it matches the "legs" of TUC (which grossed four times its opening number) it'll still only gross $ 75 million domestic.
One tiny consolation is that it'll still be Paramount's second highest grossing film of the year (TNG films generally derive around 35-40% of their box office from foreign markets - so you're looking at a likely worldwide gross of $ 100 million). But then Paramount has had a truly crappy year, as I've posted in a thread on the General Discussion forum. They need to make some big changes in their marketing department.
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All I'm saying is that people are panicking about NEM's numbers when it's only been out for three days. Things might seriously rebound. Regardless of what reveiwers are saying, I firmly believe that people are going to turn out to see NEM based on word of mouth. You cant keep a good flick down.
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The results for the Star Trek movie were down from those for the last three. Star Trek: Generations took in $23 million in 1994; First Contact, $30 million in 1996; and Insurrection, $22 million in 1998. Earlier Trek movies, however, recorded results mostly in the mid teens (when admission prices were considerably lower than they are today). Although several critics on Friday advised producers to pull the plug on the franchise, the weekend results alone would appear not to justify that move, given the film's reported budget of $60 million, a relatively modest amount for a sci-fi movie.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Then again... look at the numbers. JLo's movie didn't do that much better and plus it was at more theatres. Also if the number one grossing movie isn't do that well either doesn't that show you the status of movies in general. Less and less people may be showing up to see them. The economy isn a little bumpy right now and this may be reflection of that. If LOTR does not do as well as the first one than we have our answer. I think we can help the franchise by using our own pocket books, why can't we make the film gross 23 million. We are in control of this... the fans need to come out of the woodwork. Also perhaps because Insurrection was horrible. I think we all agree on that than perhaps people were waiting to see our reactions. For those who didn't see it, I thought it was amazing despite what the critics here might say.
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
I agree. Also lots of people didn't see Nemesis because Insurrection was a waste of time, so I have a feeling that perhaps word of mouth might help. Plus if people really want the trek franchise to survive and see another TNG movie - GO SEE THE MOVIE AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!! I've already seen Nemesis twice and am going again. I think the rest of us need to go see it and give some support to TNG.
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Why Nemesis is struggling
It's not the film. It's good. It's not critics. They seem to be hell bent on never seeing another ST film again, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
I blame Paramount Marketing/PR. They chose the release date, and wrote the "final journey" bit. (I don't even thig B&B approved this...) With it being sandwiched in between Die Another Day and Lord of the Rings only spells doom. It's just bad timing. If I were them, I would wait until mid-to-late January, but this is after the fact, knowing what we know now. We're caught in the crossfire between three films (Potter, 007, and Rings) that other studios knows will be profitable, and because of this decision, Nemesis will suffer.
Maybe I'm just still angry (See Nemesis: My Take), but look at the numbers. (This from a budding economist.) I don't want to spell doom, but the numbers are just not on our side.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
RE: J.LO KICKED OUR ASS
they never realy say, and besides we didn't get our ass kicked too badly considering how much her movie made.
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
7.5x3 and buy tickets for nemesis even if you go see another movie!!!
Lets say this makes 24 million this weekend. Thats still more then First Contact did its opening weekend. What do you think will happen if the weekend turns out to be better then expected but not awsome. If it makes a bit more then first contact this weekend I think they might make another. Remember if you want to see another movie, buy tickets for Nemesis and just see the other one!!!
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Why would you want to encourage people to steal money away from other movies that might deserve it?
Wouldn't you rather encourage people to behave ethically and therefore promote a society like we see on Trek?
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
NEMESIS does deserve it. But critics who hate ST just turned people off by conjuring memories of INSURRECTION. Despite you and a couple others, almost everyone is saying they loved this film and it's the best TNG. And I have yet to read a reasoned, level-headed, in-depth analysis of why anyone should believe the outrageous claims that NEMESIS is the worst ST movie ever--an utterly hyperbolic claim without any merit. There is no way in hell you can convince me NEM is worse than GENERATIONS or INSURRECTION or FIRST CONTACT. By an equal token it'd be ludicrous for me to sit here and say NEMESIS is a five star movie--it isn't. But it sure as hell is the best TNG movie.
If ST movies had to die like this, it should have happened with INS. Not a good movie like NEMESIS.
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No, that's not correct. FC made 30.2m in its opening weekend in 1996. In today's dollars, NEMESIS would have to make 38.9m to match FC's opening--a goal wholly unattainable after Friday's total. FC also opened in almost exactly 100 more theaters than NEM (2812 vs 2711).
Even INS's 22m is 27m in today's dollars and based on Friday's $7.6m, which was less than INS's first day, it is likely that NEMESIS's total take will be less than 20m, making it the lowest TREK opening weekend EVER, adjusted for inflation. ST5 even made more if you adjust to today's dollars: 24.6m.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Star Trek is Dead
Nemesis proves it.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
You gotta be f***ing kidding me. Are you now going to say that "The Final Frontier" was better??
I just can't even take you seriously.
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I definitely don't think that is true. I believe Enterprise is helping to do that, but Nemesis proves that TNG can revitalize the franchise. I guess you didn't like the movie, but I loved it. It had a great story line and great acting. I loved Nemesis even more than First Contact., Yes Nemesis was a little darker than other ST movies but I liked that fact. I think you're completely wrong and the box office results for this weekend will prove me right. The fanchise is alive and well and us star trek fanatics are going to see this movie a couple of times.
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"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they will never come again." Jean-Luc Picard
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
RE: Star Trek is Dead
Are you sure you didn't see the J-Lo film by accident? I thought the movie was great.
[ Reply to This | Parent Comment ]
Better then Generations, better then First Contact, Better then Insurrection, Almost as good as 6 and 2.Nemesis is great and many of my star wars fan friends loved it.
Joe
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Don't be fooled. I heard this bad word-of-mouth stuff too, and I was wary walking into the theatre. I emerged a new man, confindent in but one thing: Star Trek is NOT dead. See my post "Nemesis and the current state of Trek".
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