Why do a lot of people think the federation can win?

[fusion]

Why do a lot of people think the federation can win against the empire?
So many figures go against this idea, but why?

PS: does anyone know why search is down?

[Batman]

Search is working fine for me and it's the same reason so many people believe the Bible is historically accurate?

[Solauren]

Cause they don't want there masturbation to have been in waste

[fusion]

ok, it doesn't work when you type in death star

[Batman]

Gee, could you maybe think of an even more general search subject?
It failed because there's too many results. How abour you refine the search.

[OmegaGuy]

Well for most of the people I have met who say the Feds can win, it seems to me that if SD.net never existed, they wouldn't really care, and would be completely open to the possibility of SW winning.

However, with the existence of SD.net, and their perception of our 'elitism' and 'stupidity', they absolutely refuse to even for a second acknowledge that anything we say might actually be right, and will make any argument, use any evasion, and deny any evidence just for the purposes of disagreeing with SD.net.

Some of the things I have seen them do:

- Declaring the EU, especially the ICS, non - canon (even though that flies in the face of the official canon policy, they just declare it non - canon on their own boards and ignore what Lucasfilm says).

- Saying that all calculations are inherently worthless, because 'You can't apply real science to fiction, the creators of Star Wars never calculated out these things, they just made effects to make them look cool, so all calculations mean nothing'

- Completely ignoring SOD and saying it means something completely different from what it actually means, giving them a chance to make up any bullshit they want under the guise of 'author's intent'.

- Saying that things that only appeared for a few frames can't be used as evidence of anything, because they would never be seen anyway without pausing the movie, so they obviously weren't important or meant to mean anything. (This goes hand - in - hand with the above point).

- A bunch of other dishonest tactics that I don't have time to list here.

[Darth Wong]

Why do a lot of people think the federation can win against the empire?

For the same reason that they assume anything posted on a website with a really slick presentation is more credible than something posted on a sloppy-looking website (extra doubleplusgood credibility points if the website has a similar look and feel to news organization websites). We're not talking about rational analysis here.

So many figures go against this idea, but why?

The vast majority of the population does not like numbers, nor do they even understand them. One need only look at the current level of personal credit-card debt in the United States to realize that.

[Batman]

If all calculations are worthless than how pray tell do they determine Trek firepower? (Not that I claim you're arguing that, OG, the stupidity of the claim simply baffles me.)

[OmegaGuy]

They just arbitrarily assume a rough parity in firepower.

[Batman]

I guess by now I should know better. Oh well.

[Noble Ire]

They just arbitrarily assume a rough parity in firepower.

Unless, of course, their name happens to be Graham Kennedy, in which case the assumption is that ISDs are made out of tinfoil and dry wall, and Galaxy-class starships have enough firepower to destroy a star.

[OmegaGuy]

Graham Kennedy isn't nearly as bad as the guy who runs that one site.

You know, the one that says the Sovereign class is 16 km long, and has '100 billion TeraExaYottaWatt' phasers, while saying a TIE fighter laser is 4 watts.

I'm not making this up.

[Batman]

Welcome to the vs debate.

[FedRebel]

Why do a lot of people think the federation can win against the empire?

People hold different beliefs and mindsets

Some individuals can't deviate from what they view as the status quo

Others for one reason or another lack comprehension of real mathematics and sciences, as sure they have difficulty understanding the formulas and language used by more well endowed individuals

Then there are those who are intelligent and curious and investigate, poke and prod the subject to come to a logical conclusion.

So many figures go against this idea, but why?

Many people are swayed by words rather than by logic

[4Tran]

I think that the Golden Mean plays a big role in this as well. In particular, a lot of people don't look too closely at the debate, and simply conclude that it's impossible to determine which side has the superior position, or even that it's outright impossible for a side to have the superior position at all. Since such a view rejects the possibility of rationally analyzing the situation, both the Federation and the Empire can be considered to have an equal chance of winning – despite any arguments to the contrary.

Case in point: here's a thread from a non-Star Trek, non-Star Wars forum that illustrates this precise type of handwavium: +http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php? ... c542640ce4

[fusion]

Graham Kennedy isn't nearly as bad as the guy who runs that one site.

You know, the one that says the Sovereign class is 16 km long, and has '100 billion TeraExaYottaWatt' phasers, while saying a TIE fighter laser is 4 watts.

I'm not making this up.

No wonder the laser didn't go through the paper hulls!

So people are so igornant that they think that 25000 isd is not greater than 600 ships
OR
that a galaxy is smaller than a part of an galaxy?[/b]

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well for most of the people I have met who say the Feds can win, it seems to me that if SD.net never existed, they wouldn't really care, and would be completely open to the possibility of SW winning.

I totally agree, and I think that a lot of people get really fired up when they see some of the derogatory comments made about Federation ships and Federation tech made by such sites. Of course, some do venture into the "lion's den" as it were to make their position known either via the forums or emailing the owner of the site and the result isn't pretty, especially when they use the lines like "(class).5 past light speed", or "DS laser wouldn't work on Fed shields because it's a laser". Personally, I think neither side will back down over this no matter what numbers or situations are brought fourth.

[Darth Wong]

Well for most of the people I have met who say the Feds can win, it seems to me that if SD.net never existed, they wouldn't really care, and would be completely open to the possibility of SW winning.

I totally agree, and I think that a lot of people get really fired up when they see some of the derogatory comments made about Federation ships and Federation tech made by such sites. Of course, some do venture into the "lion's den" as it were to make their position known either via the forums or emailing the owner of the site and the result isn't pretty, especially when they use the lines like "(class).5 past light speed", or "DS laser wouldn't work on Fed shields because it's a laser". Personally, I think neither side will back down over this no matter what numbers or situations are brought fourth.

Especially since the Trek side seems to have all of the ignoramuses on it, and the SW side seems to have the scientists and engineers. The two sides speak different languages.

That's not to say that there aren't Trek fans who are scientists, but they're not the ones running around spouting these idiotic ZOMG Ultra-Transphasic Torpedoes OWNNN YOU WITH COOL NAME!!!!! arguments. I've never seen a scientifically aware person who thought Trek could win but didn't change his mind upon being faced with the arguments. Even Bernd Schneider grudgingly admitted that he had to concede most of his points to me when we had an E-mail debate about it (which is why he switched to the "Mike Wong is a bad man for comparing the two universes in an unflattering manner" tactic and built up a grudge against me).

[Ghost Rider]

Simple, people don't like two things which this debate brings up.

One, everyone has a favorite...for many that is Star Trek. And when they see their favorite butt fucked, they protest.

Two, so few grasp anything higher then 2+2 that any higher math looks like a bunch of clap trap.

So in the end, a lot of people are mindless cheerleaders.

[Tricit]

So does clap trap indicate a trap of clap which snaps your balls?

Aside from that, the reason people do not accept the superiority of the Empire is the same reasons some people do not accept the superiority of the Assgard . Aside from the fact that we have not enough evidence to measure my latter statement, I will just keep it wars v trek in the rest of my post.

Post done.

[Ghost Rider]

So does clap trap indicate a trap of clap which snaps your balls?

Aside from that, the reason people do not accept the superiority of the Empire is the same reasons some people do not accept the superiority of the Assgard . Aside from the fact that we have not enough evidence to measure my latter statement, I will just keep it wars v trek in the rest of my post.

Post done.

Ah, the newbie and the babble.

Given we do have evidence that one is superior. People don't want to accept because it either is too large/much to comprehend or one side is the favored pal.

[Batman]

And the point of that post was-what, exactly?

[Batman]

GHETTO EDIT: 'That' post being Tricits, for clarity.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Graham Kennedy isn't nearly as bad as the guy who runs that one site.

You know, the one that says the Sovereign class is 16 km long, and has '100 billion TeraExaYottaWatt' phasers, while saying a TIE fighter laser is 4 watts.

I'm not making this up.

Yeah, that's sort of ancient history around here. Turned out that he just made up all that shit to intentionally piss people off. IIRC, he basically abandoned the site after he lost interest rather than taking it down because he doesn't care about it at all.

[Tricit]

My point was that he said 'clap' which is common bullshit talk for scabies.