Ultimate Star Wars vs Star Trek Movie

LeftWingExtremist · Post by **LeftWingExtremist** » 2006-07-19 02:43am

how about an x-wing or a fighter vs a star trek ship, at least the fire power figures are a lot closer. Anyway it might be fun seeing luke syaing "yipee, like shooting womp rats back at home" while blasting away at the enteprise.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-07-19 04:00am

Lord Poe wrote:Quick question: will Trekkies be pissed if I dress the crew of the Sovereign in TNG uniforms, instead of the latest uniforms seen in the last Trek movie?

I have the TNG-style uniforms ready to go, but I'd have to experiment and work on new uniforms.

The Sovereign went into service in the early-70's, right when the TNG uniforms were being phased out, so the first crews would've worn the old uniforms. Anyone who cares to notice the uniforms are off would probbaly know this, too, so don't worry.

As for the ship: the Galaxy class was notoriously difficult to shoot, with many odd-looking angles that made it look butt-ugly from one end but gorgeous from the other. The Sovereign, by contrast, was specifically made to look good from all angles and to take advantage of widescreen. Go for the Sovvie, I'd say.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-07-19 05:55am

Poor Soverign. The fight's not even fair, really. I can only hope that we're using RotS-style Visible Portion rules for hit detection rather than multi-stage lightspeed Turbolasers. What a short fight that would be!

Just assume that this is a relatively old upgraded Soverign class being used as a fast assault craft. No dolphin tanks or holodecks like a galaxy. As a warship it's been stripped down, has a nice profile, and excellent Phasers.

If you want to be super nice to the Feddies, give this Soverign the same Superphaser as the Enterprise from the last TNG episode. It's got a slimmer profile and a flatter underdisc, so it's even a better platform for the weapon. It's nacelles are also superfreaking huge--I wonder if that could be beneficial in any way to them avoiding fire, or if it's just a bullet magnet.

Also, the best part about the Soverign, especially if you give it the Superphaser, is that it's a relatively flat ship--one of starfleets best warships designs. If that Starship Dimensions thing is to be believed, it may have a height at the saucer section not too incredibly much better than a Corellian Corvette, which may work in it's favor for avoiding some degree of turbolaser fire.

Anyway, inevitably, it'll get hit dead on and the TL will blow a giant hole through the disc and that'll be the end.

Now, however, if you REALLY want to make it an interesting fight... how about putting the Imperial crew in charge of the Soverign? And let the Feddies man the ISD. Frankly, I wonder what the trek ship could do in the hands of someone whose tactical ability scrapes in somewhere above the level 'moronically simplistic.' As is, giving the Trek side both a federation ship AND crew is just not even fair! It's like giving them a one legged camel jockeyed by a drunken monkey versus Gandalf and Shadowfax. ;D

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-07-19 06:16am

Now, however, if you REALLY want to make it an interesting fight... how about putting the Imperial crew in charge of the Soverign? And let the Feddies man the ISD. Frankly, I wonder what the trek ship could do in the hands of someone whose tactical ability scrapes in somewhere above the level 'moronically simplistic.'

Feddie-bashing aside, it'd be a walk in the park for the Imperials. Trek ships, unlike their Imperial counterparts, are 110% idiotproof; all you need is point out your target to the computer and you're off.

By contrast, I doubt anyone could fly an ISD without years of training; the controls shown are pretty abstract and require precise coordination between different stations (just look at the Superlaser firing sequence). Not an issue when you have a properly-trained crew, but it would prevent the Starfleet crew from doing...pretty much anything, really. It doesn't matter what ship attacks the ISD when the latter's crew can't even raise the shields.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-07-19 06:43am

A perfect scenario! Then I get to have the ISD explode in combat, but with the much cooler Imperial crew as the cause! ISDs are nice warships, but it would be interesting for it NOT to win. It's just amazingly more powerful, and I always prefer a clever solution to a problem than a "Victory by Wanking" style of ending. But the Starfleet crewmembers seem like clever people but really badly trained soldiers. Nobody in Trekverse seems to be a very good warship captain even comperable to, like, most of us, let alone someone of Sci-Fi level inflated leadership and tactical skills.

It's not a slam on Trek persay, or even the Feds, but they're more like the UN than the US, and it's hardly UN bashing to say the UN sucks at kicking ass. It's just a fact. The Imperials are sometimes dangerously incompetant as well, but I personally just enjoy their crispness and would like to see a little dry British humor work it's way in.

Especially if this was the beginning of a show called "Star Trek: Return to Empire" or something! Heh. Fedders pull a "lolz, switched!" trick on the Imperials to trade places, but are then defeated, leaving the Imperial officers and crew, along with a few other folks, on Federation vessel with nothing close to a Hyperdrive. Unable to effectively return home anytime soon, they need to avoid being blow'd up in their new, crappy ship while also trying to make some friends, learn about where they are, and possibly lay the foundation for an Imperial invasion of the area once people come to rescue them.

It could, infact, occur just at the point where the Rebellion defeats the second Death Star and therefore there's no help coming. Perhaps only rebels. And then we get rebel ships and annoying farmboys from Ord Pardon or something pilotting Nebulon-B's hunting down the Imperially refurbished Soverign-class they stole, and maybe their new Romulan allies or somesuch.

sgiathach · Post by **sgiathach** » 2006-07-19 09:16am

As we're about crews, iirc a Fed ship can be flown with a skeleton crew of a handful of people, and has a full crew somewhere in the hundreds (not counting civilians, researchers, obnoxious kids...).
An ISD has what crew figures? Something like 10.000?

I think a single ISD could defeat whatever the Feds could throw at it, without even looking at the specifications. If anything, the Feds might be able to take out an ISD by infiltration or similar smart moves (sort of like the ISD Intrepid was destroyed in the old X-Wing game), but certainly not in a 1 on 1 space battle.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-19 09:38am

It'd be like David vs goliath seeing as how one is twice the size of the other. Even if the Federation can suddenly build a ship twice as large as their biggest ship to date (surely they'd have to enlarge the shipyards first?) and give it a raio of power-to-size equivalent to the Defiant there's no guarantee they'd win (give them the future phasers and transphasic torpedoes as well as armour and slipstream drive and scale them accordingly they might do better), and even if they did they're putting all their resources into a few ships vs many many run-of-the-mill Empire warships, so they'd be overwhelmed. Ok this has gone off topic, but for an existing ship go for the Sovereign but a better fight would be the kind of ship I decribed here (Does anyone know what such a ship might look like?)

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-07-19 10:02am

(Does anyone know what such a ship might look like?)

Phallic.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-19 11:58am

And it would still be effortlessly curbstombed by the ISD. EnterpriseSovereign, you have no idea of the magnitude of the power differential between the Feds and the Empire do you.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-07-19 12:21pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:It'd be like David vs goliath seeing as how one is twice the size of the other. Even if the Federation can suddenly build a ship twice as large as their biggest ship to date (surely they'd have to enlarge the shipyards first?) and give it a raio of power-to-size equivalent to the Defiant there's no guarantee they'd win (give them the future phasers and transphasic torpedoes as well as armour and slipstream drive and scale them accordingly they might do better), and even if they did they're putting all their resources into a few ships vs many many run-of-the-mill Empire warships, so they'd be overwhelmed. Ok this has gone off topic, but for an existing ship go for the Sovereign but a better fight would be the kind of ship I decribed here (Does anyone know what such a ship might look like?)

...wat?

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2006-07-19 04:14pm

The show should start out with a wing of tie fighters without trops fighting the sovie then it ends with the star destroyer destroying with a broad side (looks cool). It would last longer and it would be entertaining.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-07-19 05:23pm

Will there be futile technobabble attempts at victory?

"Match their shield harmonics!"

"What harmonics?"

"Well then try beaming all of their crew into space!"

"We can't even beam our own crew through clouds!"

"Fuck!"

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2006-07-19 10:58pm

Sovereign, because it's the incumbant flagship of the Federation.

However, I must say that if this is going to be a beatdown of a Federation ship (or even a fleet), I must beg off seeing the finished product. I'd derive more pleasure out of seeing a cute little puppy getting bazooka-ed.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-07-19 11:07pm

Hold on, I just had the best idea ever:

The Fed captain that gets killed is Janeway!

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-20 05:03am

Batman wrote:And it would still be effortlessly curbstombed by the ISD. EnterpriseSovereign, you have no idea of the magnitude of the power differential between the Feds and the Empire do you.

Actually I do, however I've yet to see any numbers for the hypermatter that powers said ISDs and everything else the Empire has.

FedRebel · Post by **FedRebel** » 2006-07-20 05:38am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:powers said ISDs and everything else the Empire has.

The Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections page 23

Keep in mind the following is for the Clone Wars era Acclamator Troop transport

Data File wrote: Power: Main Reactor peak 2X10^23 watts, peak shielding 7X10^22 watts
Armament: 12 quad turbolaser turrets (200 gigatons per shot), 24 laser cannons (6 megatons per shot)

And Trek has what? 54mt torpedoes (at best} if we use the non canon TNG Tech Manual

Well surely weapon ranges can make up for this...

According to the Episode III ICS the Venator (Predecessor to the ISD) has an effective range of 10 light-minutes

Trek has what? One light-second (300,000km) according to the TNG episode "The Wounded"

In the max sublight acceleration department

The New Essential Guides to Vehicles and Vessels gives 2,300g to the ISD and 1,250g to the SSD

Trek has what? 1,000g for the GCS (at best) if we use the above mentioned TNG Tech Manual

When a troop transport can ass rape a Federation ship of the line and a 17.6km battleship can run down the pride of the fleet without breaking a sweat, the conclusion is quite clear my friend.

Waddles McGee · Post by **Waddles McGee** » 2006-07-20 05:45am

I'd personally like to see the sovereign try to fight the ISD. The closest I've come to seeing that is the ISD vs Sovvie scenerio in Bridge Commander, which lasts about ten seconds if I'm ISD, and ten minutes if I'm the Sov.

(I usually warp behind, then tail it, until I eventually lose my tail on it and it blows me to bits. In the ISD, I just shoot to kill.

)

So, the Sovereign.

sgiathach · Post by **sgiathach** » 2006-07-20 06:08am

IIRC, only the Death Star and maybe other vessels of truly extreme size use Hypermatter for power generation. The typical ISD appears to get its power out of matter annihilation, without need to resort to hazardous antimatter however.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-20 06:12am

Waddles McGee wrote:I'd personally like to see the sovereign try to fight the ISD. The closest I've come to seeing that is the ISD vs Sovvie scenerio in Bridge Commander, which lasts about ten seconds if I'm ISD, and ten minutes if I'm the Sov.

(I usually warp behind, then tail it, until I eventually lose my tail on it and it blows me to bits. In the ISD, I just shoot to kill. )

So, the Sovereign.

There's a mod that does this in Bridge Commander? Where did you get it? And I was referring to power of Hypermatter itself, like mass-to-energy conversion, that kind of thing. I know who'd win, but I'd still like to know about the stuff.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-20 06:14am

sgiathach wrote:IIRC, only the Death Star and maybe other vessels of truly extreme size use Hypermatter for power generation. The typical ISD appears to get its power out of matter annihilation, without need to resort to hazardous antimatter however.

Didn't I read somewhere that the ISD has such a high power requirement that even matter annihilation would require massive fuel reserves?

Waddles McGee · Post by **Waddles McGee** » 2006-07-20 06:29am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
Waddles McGee wrote:I'd personally like to see the sovereign try to fight the ISD. The closest I've come to seeing that is the ISD vs Sovvie scenerio in Bridge Commander, which lasts about ten seconds if I'm ISD, and ten minutes if I'm the Sov.

(I usually warp behind, then tail it, until I eventually lose my tail on it and it blows me to bits. In the ISD, I just shoot to kill. )

So, the Sovereign.
There's a mod that does this in Bridge Commander? Where did you get it? And I was referring to power of Hypermatter itself, like mass-to-energy conversion, that kind of thing. I know who'd win, but I'd still like to know about the stuff.

I got it at http://www.bcfiles.com. Find the star wars section, located to the left and down. Before you download it, you need a whole bunch of other junk that I don't know about because I just got Kobiyashimaru, which had all that.

Then, you download each ship you want to pummel/pummel as, and install it with BCMI. If your BC gets buggered, I'd suggest a reinstall.

Then go to town.

sgiathach · Post by **sgiathach** » 2006-07-20 06:32am

Might be. I didn't find any _direct_ information on the ISD's power generation. A point in favour of hypermatter is that the ISD reactor's power-to-size ratio is similar to that of the DS reactor.
However, we are also informed that the World Devastators use matter annihilation. Now I couldn't find any info on how big a WD is compared to an ISD, but they are described as "gigantic" machines.
Of course, when they are on a planet there is any amount of matter you desire. But they have to get there somehow. With hyperdrive. So they definitely need massive amounts of fuel.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-07-20 01:24pm

Feil wrote:Good luck stretching out a fight between an Imperator and a Federation ship for five minutes...

Good point. How can you have a five minute movie about a fight that will be over with one shot from the ISD?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2006-07-20 05:53pm

Sovereign.

The Galaxy looks like a piece of shit, and I was actually GLAD that they destroyed it in ST VII.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2006-07-20 06:20pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Feil wrote:Good luck stretching out a fight between an Imperator and a Federation ship for five minutes...
Good point. How can you have a five minute movie about a fight that will be over with one shot from the ISD?

Muffled explosion

TROI: Did you hear that? They've shut down the Warp core! We'll be destroyed for sure. This is madness!

Federation troops rush by the sickbay on their way to the hangar...

TROI: There'll be no escape for the Captain this time...

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Ultimate Star Wars vs Star Trek Movie

Which Federation Ship Should Fight an ISD?