Why do a lot of people think the federation can win?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-19 06:26pm

Tricit wrote:My point was that he said 'clap' which is common bullshit talk for scabies.

Thank you for the second helping of spam. Now note kiddies, don't say clap because some moron will try to be pithy and witty with the meaning.

mjn6172 · Post by **mjn6172** » 2006-07-20 09:03am

OmegaGuy wrote:They just arbitrarily assume a rough parity in firepower.

I admit I was guilty of that before I came to this website. I never really considered it seriously, but if I was discussing it with my friends I would always assume they were about equal in terms of firepower. I still figured the Empire would win, but that was mainly because they had actual warships with fighter support. Fortunately, when the debate came up on another forum I used to visit, someone linked the Star Wars vs. Star Trek in Five Minutes page from the main site and my eyes were opened

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-07-20 12:24pm

Tricit wrote:My point was that he said 'clap' which is common bullshit talk for scabies.

Gonorrhea, not scabies. Scabies are parasitic mites.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-07-20 12:54pm

Most people watching either aren't doing any kind of analysis; they're just into the story. If they think about it at all, they probably assume, as OmegaGuy said, a rough parity in firepower (with the Death Star being the obvious exception). I would think if you surprised the man on the street with "who would win?", he'd respond either according to his personal preference (or, failing that, whichever one he'd seen more of), or say the Empire, because the Death Star could blow up Earth.

The hardcore Trektards are another matter. Most of it I chalk up to being young and dumb.

sgiathach · Post by **sgiathach** » 2006-07-20 02:19pm

I have to say that I, too, in my younger days, fell for the Trek propaganda of "Phasers are better than Lasers". It didn't really matter to me, and I've always been more fond of SW than ST, but when thoughts like this came up, I'd think "Man, the Imperials have all these really huge ships and no proper main guns". I considered the TL turrets to be efficient only against small ships, like a snub fighter or at best a corvette.

It was mainly this site that taught me better, and I'm glad for it.
Now for me, the ST vs SW debate is even more moot than it was to begin with, because it's just two totally different leagues. Nobody in their right mind would seriously discuss a conflict between a bronze age Babylonian army and a 20th century combined arms force, so why bother about ST vs SW?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-07-20 02:59pm

There's a special class of people who consider themselves "science enthusiasts" but who can't be bothered to actually learn science in school, and I find that this type of person usually goes for Trek.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-07-20 03:44pm

For my sins as a teenager I did think Trek was superior. It just looked visually snazzier than Wars. Remember at the time we only had 3 movies to go by and there where literally shit loads of novels, movies and video's. It was easy to assume that Trek was better if you didn't think about it too much.

Then the EU started and we knew that there where a minimum of 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers, we knew more about a Jedi's powers and with the publication of the ICS we knew that 30 year old transports had the firepower to melt the crust of planets.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-07-20 04:14pm

Yeah, chalk up another one for the "not a little kid anymore" school of thought. I always thought Trek would win growing up, because of the "weak lasers" argument and the original Enterprise supposedly being able to destroy a planet. (So to my mind, Enterprise = Death Star.)

Dicovering this site and the SWTC rapidly changed my opinion.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-07-20 07:24pm

I used to think Trek would win, but even as a kid, it was a really embarassingly stupid reason.....

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-07-21 02:24pm

Because a lot of people are idiots and wankers. For the same reason there are a lot of creationists. The brainwash themselves into believing their side wins because it feels good to be on the winning side.

SD.net probably fanned a few flames among the trekkies but they were technowanking for years before the site went up. I believe Wayne's hatemail page had a quote something along the lines of, 'before the internet, Trekkies would sit in the lobbies of hotel conventions convincing themselfes Trek was superior to every other sci-fi franchise.'

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-07-21 04:21pm

It's kind of funny, but I was a more style over substance guy at first and that's why I picked SW to beat ST. The scientific stuff just confirmed it.

The Empire and the Rebellion both wear uniforms that look like something military personnel would actually wear. Flat grey, green, brown with the only exceptions being Rebel Pilots (safety orange so they can be picked up more easily) and stormtroopers who, as their name suggests, aren't into stealth, but frontal assaults at close range. The characters in Star Trek wear brightly colored pajamas without so much as pockets. The forces in SW look like actual military men while ST looks like a slumber party.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-07-24 08:17am

If anyone really wants an answer to this question, I noticed there's a new SWvST thread at CBR.

However I warn you, it's not pretty.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-07-24 04:58pm

OmegaGuy wrote:If anyone really wants an answer to this question, I noticed there's a new SWvST thread at CBR.

However I warn you, it's not pretty.

Are you trying to get us to go over there and bash some heads?

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-24 05:18pm

Darth Servo wrote:
OmegaGuy wrote:If anyone really wants an answer to this question, I noticed there's a new SWvST thread at CBR.

However I warn you, it's not pretty.
Are you trying to get us to go over there and bash some heads?

I don't believe I know this CBR you speak of. I obviously don't get around enough

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2006-07-24 06:03pm

One of the contributing factors I think why Trek fans/-tards think Treknology is superior to Star Wars Tech is the fact that Starfleet ships have like four or five people running the bridge and like two to five people on away missions. I hear a lot of the "ZOMG!! Trek's technology is so advanced they don't need many people to run it!"

There's also a story from the front page of Starfleet Marines International which goes like this:

The key to the Marines' success is their flexibility. A story is told of a planetary governor who frantically contacted Starfleet HQ with an urgent request for assistance: His capital city was filled with rioters, and his peacekeepers were incapable of dealing with violence of such magnitude. The nearest starship, a Knox class frigate, was dispatched, and the Captain ordered an appropriate Marine force beamed down to assist. He knew the ship's armaments would be useless as countless of innocents were in the riot zone. Ship's security was not suited, either, being trained more in "peacekeeping" techniques than in methods needed on the streets that had become a battleground.

Shortly after the Marine force arrived on the planet, the governor hailed the ship. "You're crazy!" he shouted. "You've sent down only ONE Marine!"

"But, sir," the Captain replied, "you said there was only one riot."

That little (thankfully unofficial) piece of work from SMI must induce at least one Trek wanker in this world into having a premature ejaculation in his Starfleet issue pajamas.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-24 06:13pm

Mario1470 wrote:One of the contributing factors I think why Trek fans/-tards think Treknology is superior to Star Wars Tech is the fact that Starfleet ships have like four or five people running the bridge and like two to five people on away missions. I hear a lot of the "ZOMG!! Trek's technology is so advanced they don't need many people to run it!"

There's also a story from the front page of Starfleet Marines International which goes like this:

The key to the Marines' success is their flexibility. A story is told of a planetary governor who frantically contacted Starfleet HQ with an urgent request for assistance: His capital city was filled with rioters, and his peacekeepers were incapable of dealing with violence of such magnitude. The nearest starship, a Knox class frigate, was dispatched, and the Captain ordered an appropriate Marine force beamed down to assist. He knew the ship's armaments would be useless as countless of innocents were in the riot zone. Ship's security was not suited, either, being trained more in "peacekeeping" techniques than in methods needed on the streets that had become a battleground.

Shortly after the Marine force arrived on the planet, the governor hailed the ship. "You're crazy!" he shouted. "You've sent down only ONE Marine!"

"But, sir," the Captain replied, "you said there was only one riot."
That little (thankfully unofficial) piece of work from SMI must induce at least one Trek wanker in this world into having a premature ejaculation in his Starfleet issue pajamas.

Starfleet automation is better than, say the quarren in Voyager that needed a massive workforce to run everything, but computer tech aside, neat automation etc is simply no match for the brute force of the Empire. Electronic devices are neat but many of them are very fragile. Starfleet tech is the same.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-07-25 12:06am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
OmegaGuy wrote:If anyone really wants an answer to this question, I noticed there's a new SWvST thread at CBR.

However I warn you, it's not pretty.
Are you trying to get us to go over there and bash some heads?
I don't believe I know this CBR you speak of. I obviously don't get around enough

Consider yourself lucky.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-07-25 03:27am

CBR: where high-school kiddies are allowed to delude themselves into thinking they're just as knowledgeable and skilled as adult professionals.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2006-07-25 11:27am

Don't forget the X-Wing and TIE Fighter video games of the early-mid 90's, which allowed individual fighters to destroy capital ships while they just sat there and got pounded. Since we hadn't had a movie in 15 years (at that point), and by comparison Star Trek had all sorts of cool shows, battles, etc., and their ships seemed tougher/cooler/faster, it's easy for somebody who played the video games to think Star Wars ships were weak.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-07-25 01:35pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Don't forget the X-Wing and TIE Fighter video games of the early-mid 90's, which allowed individual fighters to destroy capital ships while they just sat there and got pounded. Since we hadn't had a movie in 15 years (at that point), and by comparison Star Trek had all sorts of cool shows, battles, etc., and their ships seemed tougher/cooler/faster, it's easy for somebody who played the video games to think Star Wars ships were weak.

Even at the time, anyone with half a brain knew that game mechanics were a pretty fucking weak basis of an argument. It's not as if any sapient individual could think that soldiers can heal any injury in half a second by touching a medical kit, the way it works in Doom.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2006-07-25 01:41pm

Mario1470 wrote:One of the contributing factors I think why Trek fans/-tards think Treknology is superior to Star Wars Tech is the fact that Starfleet ships have like four or five people running the bridge and like two to five people on away missions. I hear a lot of the "ZOMG!! Trek's technology is so advanced they don't need many people to run it!"

There's also a story from the front page of Starfleet Marines International which goes like this:

Quote:
The key to the Marines' success is their flexibility. A story is told of a planetary governor who frantically contacted Starfleet HQ with an urgent request for assistance: His capital city was filled with rioters, and his peacekeepers were incapable of dealing with violence of such magnitude. The nearest starship, a Knox class frigate, was dispatched, and the Captain ordered an appropriate Marine force beamed down to assist. He knew the ship's armaments would be useless as countless of innocents were in the riot zone. Ship's security was not suited, either, being trained more in "peacekeeping" techniques than in methods needed on the streets that had become a battleground.

Shortly after the Marine force arrived on the planet, the governor hailed the ship. "You're crazy!" he shouted. "You've sent down only ONE Marine!"

"But, sir," the Captain replied, "you said there was only one riot."

I liked it better when it was a Texas Ranger legend.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-07-25 02:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:CBR: where high-school kiddies are allowed to delude themselves into thinking they're just as knowledgeable and skilled as adult professionals.

The one guy who was arguing for Star Wars isn't posting anymore, looks like they banned him.

And they say that we ban people for not agreeing with us.....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-07-25 02:54pm

OmegaGuy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:CBR: where high-school kiddies are allowed to delude themselves into thinking they're just as knowledgeable and skilled as adult professionals.
The one guy who was arguing for Star Wars isn't posting anymore, looks like they banned him.

And they say that we ban people for not agreeing with us.....

Offhand, I don't know of any other boards which publicize the circumstances of bannings the way we do. Most of them do it Star Chamber style, and it takes quite a bit of hypocrisy and gall to accuse us of nefarious banning motivations in light of that fact.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-07-25 02:57pm

Star chamber style? Forgive my ignorance, what does that entail?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-07-25 03:01pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Star chamber style? Forgive my ignorance, what does that entail?

There was a movie in the 1980s called "The Star Chamber" about a bunch of judges who ran a secret court, where they tried and convicted suspects in absentia with no public knowledge, and then hired hitmen to quietly execute sentence.