WoW: Horde paladins and Alliance shaman

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-07-22 03:54pm

So, any thoughts on this guys? I know a few people are canclling their accounts over this one, because it not only is yet another lore oddity, but changes a dynamic that was supposed to be a significant part of the game. Obviously, the gameplay reason this was done was because a lack of healers horde-side was making shaman more and more like paladins. This way, it's far easier to make shaman and paladins into distinct classes. It just seems like kind of a letdown that they couldn't have found a better solution which made Horde or Alliance better suited to certain instances or bosses, and kept pvp in each faction significantly different.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-22 04:52pm

Not having played since November, I had to check their website to see what was up. It seems that in the Expansion, Horde Blood Elves can be Paladins and Alliance Draeni can be Shamans. It's fairly reasonable for the setting (considering the restrictions and limitations of the MMO upon WarCraft 'lore') and opens up a lot more flexibility and options with gaming. Although the downside is it removes some of the differences between factions and class options, I think that issue is reduced by the fact it only applies to the expansion classes, which by design bear a lot of aspects of the opposite side (both have 'switched sides' and are atypical to the feel of the faction).

It certainly wouldn't stop me from eventually returning to the game.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-22 05:41pm

Not canceling but laughing my ass off. Sure it'll be interesting but for the upper end guilds that are now doing Naxx?

It'll be one of those "Fucking A, so we have to now wait until someone gets to sixty then equip them?!...ah fuck it."

For an Alliance guild it looks like this:

Paladins? LMAO...sorry, the Shamans have some nice totems but given some of the current nerfs and the fact the entire 1.11 patch was pure Elemental and Enhancement buff, somehow not dropping a Pally. Paladins are the buff king in raids.

Hunter? Riiiight. Shamans have no way of dumping aggro, and takes a shit ton of mana to even begin to match a hunter's DPS

Rogue? See Hunter.

Priest? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...because their healing even compares *snorts*

Warrior? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...yeah, because their DPS...never mind.

Mage? Sorry, if I laugh harder...it'll hurt too much.

Druids? Yes, because a combo machine that is one of the best healers....let's say no.

Warlock? Sorry, once again...the warlock DPS and other abilites are good enough to warrant it above a shaman newbie.

For the flipside for the Horde? A Paladin or two would easily do what a Shaman does and more for a raid. In fact a Paladin easily outdoes a Shaman in the buffing department and if you're using Shamans as DPS...then you need new Hunters, Mages, Warriors, and Rogues.

Starting out raiding...it'll be a nice addition to mix and match. For anyone currently ripping through Naxx? It's an alt that you have fun with just like you do with your other alts you take to either MC or Ony.

Namarie · Post by **Namarie** » 2006-07-22 06:04pm

All it means to me is freaking shammy drops on the loot tables.

ZOMG NEF DOWN! And its double ten storms? O.o

*Cry*

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-22 06:07pm

Namarie wrote:All it means to me is freaking shammy drops on the loot tables.

ZOMG NEF DOWN! And its double ten storms? O.o

*Cry*

Pfft, Free Nexus. After a while I feel for someof my guildies who are going "C'mon chest piece...I've only been waiting 4 months..."

Namarie · Post by **Namarie** » 2006-07-22 06:54pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Namarie wrote:All it means to me is freaking shammy drops on the loot tables.

ZOMG NEF DOWN! And its double ten storms? O.o

*Cry*
Pfft, Free Nexus. After a while I feel for someof my guildies who are going "C'mon chest piece...I've only been waiting 4 months..."

MC is for nexus crystals, dont need shammy crap on the tables for that. ^_^ On the bright side though, at least they'll be worthless enough not to steal my raid spots. Bwahaha.

...And that Blood elf Pally is far sexier than any pally Ive seen on the alliance side. Hawt.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-22 08:58pm

Namarie wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Namarie wrote:All it means to me is freaking shammy drops on the loot tables.

ZOMG NEF DOWN! And its double ten storms? O.o

*Cry*
Pfft, Free Nexus. After a while I feel for someof my guildies who are going "C'mon chest piece...I've only been waiting 4 months..."
MC is for nexus crystals, dont need shammy crap on the tables for that. ^_^ On the bright side though, at least they'll be worthless enough not to steal my raid spots. Bwahaha.

...And that Blood elf Pally is far sexier than any pally Ive seen on the alliance side. Hawt.

Eh, we go to MC once a month if our raid leader even remembers, and that for the possibilty of either pants for the new people or maybe just maybe our fourth Thunderfury. So really having Shammy loot means more Nexus in BWL.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-07-22 09:16pm

Speaking of legendary weapons, are the calculations my friend did for Sulfuras correct, in that it still has the best straight-up DPS in the game? Obviously it's not going to be the most damaging weapon for everyone, and this doesn't take into account crits or special abilities.

Hmm, apparently the lore-name for the Blood Elf pallies is going to be Blood Knight. I like it.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-07-22 09:35pm

This thread makes me

. I know that everyone here is speaking English, but I haven't played WoW for a long time, and as far as anyone who doesn't play is concerned, you might as well be speaking Swahili, for all the sense you're making.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-22 11:45pm

Alan Bolte wrote:Speaking of legendary weapons, are the calculations my friend did for Sulfuras correct, in that it still has the best straight-up DPS in the game? Obviously it's not going to be the most damaging weapon for everyone, and this doesn't take into account crits or special abilities.

Hmm, apparently the lore-name for the Blood Elf pallies is going to be Blood Knight. I like it.

I believe Dark Edge of Insanity beats it out, let alone some of the Naxx items. Might of Menethil will be a killer on the PvP field. Then there is Ashbringer which will be a legendary quest for the expansion. Now for the weapons.

Sulfuras: 80.4 DPS 3.7 +12 Str

Ashkandi: 81.4 DPS 3.5 +86 AP

Dark Edge of Insanity: 86.6 DPS 3.5 +35 Str

Kalimdor's Revenge: 81.9 DPS 3.2 +24 Str.

So yeah, Sulfuras is nice, but not top dog

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-07-23 12:18am

You're forgetting the proc

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-23 09:17am

Alan Bolte wrote:You're forgetting the proc

There's a reason. It's unreliable and it's fire damage. It's not pure DPS, it's an elemental add on, I also left out onto the others just to go for only Str rating to give a basis to where DPS can be determined. Unless someone can show a 100% reliability of how much something procs per minute, it's useless because I can assign any value to go "See Sulfuras is stronger because it activates it's Chance of hit ability!"

Str and AP always happen, the procs don't. In fact I didn't include any of their procs, because barring Ashkandi's ability they all have a chance on hit.

xammer99 · Post by **xammer99** » 2006-07-23 10:10am

Shamans are gonna be interesting for the alliance (which I play & lead a raid for), but I'm not sure how useful they'll be. We'll see how things work out, but atm going down to 4 paladins on a raid and 2 shamans or trading a couple of Warlocks for shamans.

We'll see though. Shamans bring a lot and can really turn rogues into killers w/ Windfury.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-07-23 10:18am

When I played Shaman were awesome in PVP, so now people will be able to build balanced PVP teams which will be good for the Battlegrounds.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-23 10:20am

GuppyShark wrote:When I played Shaman were awesome in PVP, so now people will be able to build balanced PVP teams which will be good for the Battlegrounds.

Pfft, shamans are good for PvP...but it's not the classes that make balanced teams

.

Having played both side...I've seen Horde and Alliance being complete asstards when it comes to "Look fuckers...teamwork, y'know...since it's a team effort? Ah fuckit, give me my losing token so I can go back into que."

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-07-23 10:30am

Well, obviously teams that can't work together will lose regardless of their class makeup, but some of the CTF brackets were nigh unwinnable for Alliance without Ghost Wolf.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-23 10:38am

GuppyShark wrote:Well, obviously teams that can't work together will lose regardless of their class makeup, but some of the CTF brackets were nigh unwinnable for Alliance without Ghost Wolf.

Eh, I've seen Horde cum in their pants at the thought that they can get Blessing of Protection. For me it's give or take, classes can make it slightly easier, but nothing overcomes teamwork.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-07-23 11:04am

I'm not sure why you feel the need to reiterate that point since nobody is arguing against the necessity of teamwork.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-07-23 11:38am

GuppyShark wrote:I'm not sure why you feel the need to reiterate that point since nobody is arguing against the necessity of teamwork.

You did read the first part. Sure Shamans have Ghost wolf...Pallies have Bless of protection. I've seen both used to disgusting levels for CTF enough to say that Shamans won't make any real difference.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-07-23 12:14pm

Shammies'll make 5-char instances a LOT easier for Alliance. They are their own wipe recovery after all, and don't require two rezzers unlike the Divine Intervention + Pally2/Priest combo.

Namarie · Post by **Namarie** » 2006-07-23 01:15pm

Nephtys wrote:Shammies'll make 5-char instances a LOT easier for Alliance. They are their own wipe recovery after all, and don't require two rezzers unlike the Divine Intervention + Pally2/Priest combo.

Thats what competent warlocks are for. <3

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2006-07-23 01:31pm

persoanlly I didn't like them rewriting lore and making draeni into eredar and all the draeni we've previously seen were just mutated offshots.

Another is how they totally rewrote the lore about the eredar. Originally it was the eredar's evil that was corrupting Sargeras but in the expansion they are rewriting the story saying that it's Sargeras that corrupted the eredar and a few wouldn't go along with it.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-07-23 01:41pm

Procs, while random on a per-hit basis, do have a % chance to hit, so can be averaged out over time. Legendary weapons proc more often, generally, than epic, and epic more often than rare. Sulfuras has been determined to proc around 25% of the time, which, given the attack speed, means more than a 20 dps average incrase against an unarmored, unresisting target.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-23 04:02pm

ArmorPierce wrote:persoanlly I didn't like them rewriting lore and making draeni into eredar and all the draeni we've previously seen were just mutated offshots.

Another is how they totally rewrote the lore about the eredar. Originally it was the eredar's evil that was corrupting Sargeras but in the expansion they are rewriting the story saying that it's Sargeras that corrupted the eredar and a few wouldn't go along with it.

I seem to recall it was the Dreadlords that corrupted him. Sargeras simply then recruited the Pitlords and Eredar Warlocks into his crusade. Also we had known for some time that the Draeni 'Lost Ones' were already disfigurements of their original forms; the expansion simply embellishes upon this notion by making them an offshoot of Eredar renegades. It's not like there was much of any origin or background to them in the first place.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-07-23 04:08pm

The bit about the Eredar corrupting Sargeras was one line in one source, a retcon is acceptable.