The Kilrathi vs. the Klingons!!

[Master of Ossus]

The problem with attacking Earth was not a lack of firepower, but a lack of the ability to directly assault the planet. Their antimatter rockets were more than powerful enough to wipe out cities, and they were about to attack Earth again in WCIII, except that Kilrah was annihilated, first.

[Dark Primus]

It is, however, quite enough to Blow Lots Of Shit Up.

Besides, I don't understand the point of this . . . I don't remember the Kilrathi blowing up planets, unless you mean Fleet Action, and to my knowledge they only blew up several Earth defence cities.

Like I didn't say before, though, I never read Fleet Action.

The Kilrathi had the firepower terraforming entire planets with proton missiles/warheads mentioned in WC Prophecy. The planet Hawk came from was used in that sort of way.

[Peregrin Toker]

Probably a nuclear winter. There be still maybe 10,000 nukes left world wide at most. I believe USA had at most 6,000, Russia/Soviet maybe 5,000 or something, i am not so sure. Large number of those were below one megaton. Not all were to be city destroyers but more likely to take out enemy bases and fortifactions and that sort of thing, and for that you don't need multimegaton warheads.

A nuclear winter.... and that's about it?? Holy moly, I thought it would shatter the planet to pieces.

I'm more interested in how much of the life on earth all that firepower can kill...

[Master of Ossus]

Probably a nuclear winter. There be still maybe 10,000 nukes left world wide at most. I believe USA had at most 6,000, Russia/Soviet maybe 5,000 or something, i am not so sure. Large number of those were below one megaton. Not all were to be city destroyers but more likely to take out enemy bases and fortifactions and that sort of thing, and for that you don't need multimegaton warheads.

A nuclear winter.... and that's about it?? Holy moly, I thought it would shatter the planet to pieces.

I'm more interested in how much of the life on earth all that firepower can kill...

It wouldn't even kill all complex life on earth. It would almost certainly not even wipe out humanity. I don't think that would be particularly impressive for Sci-fi series.

[Bob McDob]

The Kilrathi had the firepower terraforming entire planets with proton missiles/warheads mentioned in WC Prophecy. The planet Hawk came from was used in that sort of way.

I'm pretty certain that was just a figure of speech . . . Mylon III was probably one of the frontier worlds the Kilrathi blew the hell out of in the opening moments of the war. I don't think the Kilrathi would really bother with terraforming in war (is it even possible to do that with proton bombs?) Besides, when Vagabond says "I've been from one end of the universe to the other", does he mean that any more than Han Solo belittling the Imperial Starfleet, or Chakotay ranting about Borg cubes?

[Bob McDob]

The problem with attacking Earth was not a lack of firepower, but a lack of the ability to directly assault the planet. Their antimatter rockets were more than powerful enough to wipe out cities, and they were about to attack Earth again in WCIII, except that Kilrah was annihilated, first.

Proof?

[Master of Ossus]

The problem with attacking Earth was not a lack of firepower, but a lack of the ability to directly assault the planet. Their antimatter rockets were more than powerful enough to wipe out cities, and they were about to attack Earth again in WCIII, except that Kilrah was annihilated, first.

Proof?

WCIII, the attacks that they launched against Earth, described completely in that manual. The fact that in WCIII it is directly stated that they were about to launch an attack on earth, again, just before Kilrah was destroyed. What other proof can I offer?

[Dark Primus]

The Kilrathi had the firepower terraforming entire planets with proton missiles/warheads mentioned in WC Prophecy. The planet Hawk came from was used in that sort of way.

I'm pretty certain that was just a figure of speech . . . Mylon III was probably one of the frontier worlds the Kilrathi blew the hell out of in the opening moments of the war. I don't think the Kilrathi would really bother with terraforming in war (is it even possible to do that with proton bombs?) Besides, when Vagabond says "I've been from one end of the universe to the other", does he mean that any more than Han Solo belittling the Imperial Starfleet, or Chakotay ranting about Borg cubes?

Yes it was a figure of speech, saying they bombarded the planet to hell leaving nothing left. But the planet is more likely dead, it probably looks similar to the moon now i can imagine, considering how cruel the Kilrathi are.

[seanrobertson]

I think that the Klingon Empire is larger than that of the Kilrathi, but I think that WC technology is better (yes, even "crumby furball" stuff). I would expect that this would be a good fight, but I don't see how the Klingons could expect to win. They have nothing that can stand up to the Kilrathi on the ground, and their ships do not appear to have an ability to annihilate worlds in BDZ type operations, even en masse.

Huh? Sure they do. It wouldn't keep them from being defeated, but
the Klingons *definitely* have the ability to kill all of a planet's life.
We saw one ship do the job in "The Chase," and there's always the
redoubtable "The Die Is Cast"...

Sean
Analyst http://www.babtech-onthe.net/

[seanrobertson]

So.... good old "fasion" nuclear weapons will destroy a planet. Why, then, did it take hours for a fleet of ST vessels to damage 30% of a planet's surface?

Man, who told you this?!

The opening volley from a 20 ship fleet "destroyed 30% of the planet's
crust" in "The Die Is Cast." They were being fed false readings, so
that figure is somewhat unreliable. However, one of the leaders of
the attack (a Founder impersonating a Romulan colonel) said:

"Computer analysis indicates that the planet's crust will be destroyed
within one hour; and the mantle, within five."

Not damaged, but destroyed. At the very least, within six hours everything on the planet should've been dead.

We've heard that single ships have the ability to kill at least all humanoid
life on planets before and since...the TOS Federation called it
General Order 24, IIRC. Even tiny Defiant was supposed to be
capable of turning the new Founder's homeworld "into a smoking cinder."

Granted, we're looking at some hyperbole, but phasers and disruptors
do very neat things to light silicates.

The Klingons clearly do not have the ability to effectively destroy planets. In WC, starfighter-class weapons can do that. There is an enormous firepower disparity, here.

In terms of power requirements, probably, yes: Klingon weapons
utilize the same funky mechanism that phasers do, so they're optimized
against very specific targets. They're much less effective against shields
and especially against heavy armor.

But no, the Klingons do have the ability to kill all of a planet's life off,
in fairly short order no less. I'll remind you that a single Bird-of-Prey
was thought easily capable of destroying Gowron's fortified HQ and "everything else within a few hundred kilometers" in "Apocalypse Rising."

The Klingons cannot out fight an enemy with such a huge advantage. The Kilrathi would destroy their industrial complexes, and the Klingons would be unable to mount any defense except for a weak offensive (by WC standards). They would be wiped out. They have no advantages on the ground, and spectacular disadvantages. In space, both sides have some advantages, but the Kilrathi have the firepower/shield trump-card. Please note that the only time a Klingon group would be able to launch an effective ambush around a jump point would be after they had already won a battle-something that likely would never happen. WC also has advantages in targeting and armor. The Klingons would be overwhelmed.

I think the Klingons would definitely lose, given what I've heard of
WC firepower and shields. I also believe you WRT their sheer numbers
(doesn't matter anyway, since a few hundred ships should be able to
defeat the Empire).

However, I do think you're underestimating them. Call it a nitpick

Sean
Analyst http://www.babtech-onthe.net/