Execution of Imperial Officers

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-07-31 01:48pm

Does the Empire routinely execute officers for failing to follow orders? Or is it just more Rebel propaganda.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-31 02:01pm

Acutal its half right

If you notice who excuted which officer more than 80% of them can be trace back to Evilness Himself Lord Vadar Dark Lord of Sith, He over his command of the Excutior has killed more than the rest of the fleet officers combined.

Thrawn to date from all EU sources excuited less than six, Two while head of the Imperal Fleet and three more out in the Unknow Sector Eariler

Daala Excuted the War-Lords but never any Officers

Peollon never exuted anyone though he wished to once but Thrawn stoped him

The Emperor killed only one man, Bevil Lemisk
However he had him cloned and killed a total of 18 times so is that one? Or 18? Who knows....

Few officers acutal excute people and nearly all of the real ones where done by Vadar

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-31 04:05pm

Vader also killed Admiral Harkov, and sent GAT to hunt down and kill former Grand Admiral Zaarin after they betrayed and tried to kill the Emperor. In both of those cases, though, it seemed like almost ANY government would execute you.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-07-31 04:16pm

I think that execution in the face of failure tends to stunt a military's initaive, I mean look at the Russian front where officers were routinely executed or purged. By the time the Nazis rolled in, the Russain army was in chaos and it showed as teh Nazi's plowed through in the opening days of barborasa. It was only until they had a stable of officers (Like Zhukov) that weren't be routinely killed that they started to see real success.

Fear of death makes officers less likely to take a risk and only follow the strict letter of the order or command. Besides, no military officer succeeds 100% of the time. I always liked watching samurai movies, when they're in battle and somethign awful happens, the tide turns or the odds go against them, usually the samurai commander merely grunts and says "Such is War." That is the attitude Imperial commanders should have - but Sith lords must take a dim view of failure.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-31 04:59pm

Fun WWII Fact I love to spew(Though its not almost not true)

No Soviet Officer of General's Rank or Higher was Alive at the end of WWII that where alive at the begining

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-31 06:36pm

Remember that not all of Vader's personnel who failed him were executed. Admiral Piett even failed to bring in the Falcon and its crew, but he was allowed to live, even though Piett's crime was almost identical to what Needa had done. I think that both Captain Needa and Admiral Ozzel had made a series of blunders before hand. About Admiral Ozzel, Vader told Veers, "He's as clumsy as he is stupid." Clearly Ozzel had a history of mistakes, as did Needa. I think it more likely that Vader was only punishing severe incompetence among his men. Death Squadron has the best Imperial officers in it, and Vader was basically ditching the dead-weight.

Needa · Post by **Needa** » 2002-07-31 09:37pm

Remember that not all of Vader's personnel who failed him were executed. Admiral Piett even failed to bring in the Falcon and its crew, but he was allowed to live, even though Piett's crime was almost identical to what Needa had done. I think that both Captain Needa and Admiral Ozzel had made a series of blunders before hand. About Admiral Ozzel, Vader told Veers, "He's as clumsy as he is stupid." Clearly Ozzel had a history of mistakes, as did Needa.

Ozzel deserved to die. Firstly, he failed to recognize the rebel base at Hoth when the imperial probe shown it. Second, he failed his approach to Hoth himself, and that's why he was executed. The imperial lost their advantage to bombard at point blank range, and Veers had to destroy the Alliance HQ the hard way. It was all Ozzel's fault. Too damn incomptent. Vader had no choice but to kill him.

I think Needa was a competent commander, and was not as clumsy as our admiral Ozzel. Ok, I'm biaised toward Needa anyway, but here is what I think.

Needa had the Millenium Falcon right before him. He was soooo close to catch it. Their shield sustained heavy damage from the Avenger's turbolaser, and was about to be captured. But he lost the Yt-1300 despite his huge advantage. I'm sure Vader was furious to see the report of this failed interception, and Needa payed for this because it was sooooo close to catch him. Vader wasn't happy to lost the Falcon for third time (firstly time on hoth, secondly time on the asteroids). Poor unlucky Needa. But atleast he prefer to go himself apology to the big dark boss, instead of using one of his men as a "messenger" (may be canon folder might be a better term). He was a hero, but that's another thing to discuss...

Piett's case is different, atleast to me. Vader talked a lot by using the Force to Luke while the Ties' hunted Han and cie. It was a matter of time before the rebels become imperial prisonners. When the Falcon escaped in hyperspace, everyone, including Piett himself, taught that he was about to be killed. But we all know he wasn't. My humble opinion on this matter is that Vader was on a different mood, that hopefully saved Piett's life. According to the Empire strikes back novel, Vader was in contemplation in front of this extraordinary unlikely turn of event when the ship escaped at the last minute. So he didn't even think about anything else, including killing Piett. Lucky Piett. Probably Piett would have been killed if it wasn't for this mood.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-31 10:23pm

Needa, the only thing that exceeds your lack of knowledge on the matter is your poor grammar. Vader clearly should have been even more upset at Admiral Piett than he had been at Needa. Are you seriously suggesting that Vader's mood was the determining factor for when he killed Needa? Why was he more upset with Needa than he was at Admiral Piett? Why was he more upset with Admiral Harkov than he was with Admiral Piett when he killed him, even after VADER had asked Luke to join him so he could betray the Emperor. Needa, what you are doing here is you are trying to justify your opinion that Needa was a good commander when we have very little evidence of that. Needa takes very little direct action during the film, and in fact is quite hesitant when he should not have been. When he told his crew to raise shields, remember how he failed to act immediately, despite the fact that he should have been worried about both asteroids and the Falcon's weapons? That, to me, demonstrates his incompetence. Either Needa was not the infallible but unlucky commander you are portraying him as, or Piett was much better than we see in the movies because nothing else can explain his survival and Needa's death.

AL · Post by AL » 2002-08-01 12:44am

I agree. Needa was a horrible commander, and deserved to die. He was worthless.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-08-01 02:05am

I think Vader was pissed off at Ozzel because of Hoth...no shit. And he was pissed off at Needa because the Falcon didn't escape into hyperspace, and obviously was still in the sector they were in, so he killed him. He might have known about the Falcon being on the blind spot of the ISD from Boba Fett, who could have reported it directly to Vader. So Vader was pissed that he didn't find it, and decided to use Fett to see where the Falcon would go, instead of having another series of chases that all failed. Piett was spared because it wasn't really his fault that the Falcon escaped. The Falcon went into hyperspace on its own. He probably assumed that they somehow found out about the hyperdrive being disabled and fixed it, thus it wasn't Piett's fault. And Piett was right about Hoth. Vader probably thought Piett was a good officer to keep around because everything that he was responsible for went smoothly.

Needa · Post by **Needa** » 2002-08-01 05:17pm

Needa, the only thing that exceeds your lack of knowledge on the matter is your poor grammar

Then I'm really sorry for my lack of knowledge on this matter: will you accept my apologies now?

As for my poor grammar, well I'm sorry too. English isn't my first language. I'm really sorry for being so sucky at spelling, and I really want to improve it. By practicing again and again, I will probably improve. Should I stop writing in this board? Anyway, forgive me for butchering the english language

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-01 05:28pm

Your grammar isn't that bad, there is a lot worse on these forums.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-08-01 10:02pm

I remember reading about a Imperial AT-AT driver that was having his leg tangled like the one at hoth, hand the AT-AT kneel down and have the speeder crash into it's side. He was executed for this tactic of having the empire bow down before their enemies. With the size of the SW galaxy only the really good officers are allowed to make mistakes. Ok ones are probly a dime a dozen.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-08-01 10:11pm

Anarchist, some Imperial Officers are Zealots(Very few at the Level you are talking about) but most would not execute a AT-AT Driver for a Obvious, builtin weakness.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-08-01 11:00pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Needa, the only thing that exceeds your lack of knowledge on the matter is your poor grammar. Vader clearly should have been even more upset at Admiral Piett than he had been at Needa. Are you seriously suggesting that Vader's mood was the determining factor for when he killed Needa? Why was he more upset with Needa than he was at Admiral Piett? Why was he more upset with Admiral Harkov than he was with Admiral Piett when he killed him, even after VADER had asked Luke to join him so he could betray the Emperor. Needa, what you are doing here is you are trying to justify your opinion that Needa was a good commander when we have very little evidence of that. Needa takes very little direct action during the film, and in fact is quite hesitant when he should not have been. When he told his crew to raise shields, remember how he failed to act immediately, despite the fact that he should have been worried about both asteroids and the Falcon's weapons? That, to me, demonstrates his incompetence. Either Needa was not the infallible but unlucky commander you are portraying him as, or Piett was much better than we see in the movies because nothing else can explain his survival and Needa's death.

Master of Ossus, you are only posting you opinions just like everyone else. Needa said several times in his post that he was just posting his own opinion, and he did not post anything that was contradictory to fact. You do not have the right to flame others because they have a different opinion than you. Also, many of the people here are not, nor have ever been, a primarily English speaker. I've seen a lot worse from people who have spoken English all their lives.

In other words, lay off.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-01 11:11pm

Okay, sorry, everybody.

Needa · Post by **Needa** » 2002-08-01 11:23pm

Then it's ok, Master of Ossus.