Palpatine's rise to Supreme Chancellor: Was it illegal?

[Durandal]

So I was showering a few minutes ago, and something interesting occurred to me. Palpatine's rise to the Supreme Chancellorship was a direct result of the no-confidence vote in Valorum, the old chancellor. But that vote wasn't called for by a member of the Senate! It was called by Padmé's double, if memory serves. The double had a distinctly lower, more baritone voice than Padmé, and it was that voice calling for the vote. And if it wasn't a member of the Senate making that call, then the ensuing vote should be void if challenged.

So could Padmé have possibly stopped Palpatine before things got out of hand by revealing that she frequently let her double vote in her place in the Senate?

[Civil War Man]

It was called by Padmé's double, if memory serves.

I think it may have been intended to be Padme herself making the call. Remember when Anakin showed up to say he was going to the Jedi temple, the Queen said "Oh...Padme isn't here right now. I'll tell her you stopped by, though." I interpreted that as Padme was switching with the double for the Senate meeting, and not that the double sent the actual queen out on an errand.

[Anguirus]

Plus, if you watch the scenes, it's clearly Natalie Portman's character conducting all important government negotiations, not Keira Knightley's. Padme simply spoke in a deeper voice in her role as Queen.

[Isolder74]

It was the Queen. Now if it came out that Palpitine was the one actually behind the invasion of Naboo then yes the vote would be illegal because he was the one commiting the crime in question. The other thing is that Palpitine was the hidden leader of the Seperatists. I'm not sure how this escaped Anakin, maybe it was his turn to the Dark Side.

Now under those grounds, Mace's move to arrest rather than confront Palpitine makes perfect sense. Not only can they arrest him as the leader of the enemy but as the man behind the invasion of Naboo.

Those things considered explains why Sidious had Anakin kill all the leaders of the Confederacy. To hide the truth from coming out until no one can do anything about it.

[RedImperator]

Even if that was her double, it could be argued that she was speaking for the Naboo delegation on the authority of the queen. Remember, Amidala wasn't a member of the Senate then, either. We've seen that the Senator doesn't actually have to be the one voting, and I don't think we have any idea what the rules are. It's a damn strange system, like letting a US Senator's aide cast a vote for him on the Senate floor, but it's apparently what they have.

[Shadowtraveler]

Palpatine was letting Amidala speak on his behalf, though. He even says as much.

[RedImperator]

Palpatine was letting Amidala speak on his behalf, though. He even says as much.

So what? That just makes my point for me. In no legislature I know of are outsiders allowed to speak for a legislator and actually make a motion in the chamber, as both Amidala did for Palpatine and later Jar-Jar Binks would for Amidala, but in the Galactic Senate, senators can apparently authorize others to speak and even vote for them. As long as whoever it actually was was authorized by Palpatine, it's a legal vote (the whole thing is moot because it was Amidala anyway, but even if it hadn't been, under that body's rules, it would have been a legal vote).

[CmdrWilkens]

As a quick note the Senate procedure would seem to be akin to say the Governor of Maryland voting in place of one of its Senators (or for an even better example for said Governor to cast the vote for the US in any UN proceedings). It seems to be some mechanism for delagation of authority to those who by theory give the senator his authority to begin with. Anyway the vote itself is perfectly legal and Palpatine's rise to power is legal (though he corrupted the process later to remain chancellor) its only his other actions which bring about the ability to arrest him.

[Durandal]

Palpatine was letting Amidala speak on his behalf, though. He even says as much.

So what? That just makes my point for me. In no legislature I know of are outsiders allowed to speak for a legislator and actually make a motion in the chamber, as both Amidala did for Palpatine and later Jar-Jar Binks would for Amidala, but in the Galactic Senate, senators can apparently authorize others to speak and even vote for them. As long as whoever it actually was was authorized by Palpatine, it's a legal vote (the whole thing is moot because it was Amidala anyway, but even if it hadn't been, under that body's rules, it would have been a legal vote).

Actually, the implied rule is that the senator can authorize a vote. It'd be very strange if the authorized party could in turn authorize another party to vote as well.

[Isolder74]

She only called for the vote. we never see the vote and it appears that she took no part in that. She only made the motion for a vote of no contest. Since Palpitine was having her speak in there behalf she did have the right to do that.

Now his being the one who ordered the invasion, are grounds for his removal from office.

[Cykeisme]

Hmm.. yeah, since Palpatine planned the invasion of Naboo in order to set in motion the events leading to his election, if it was discovered during his tenure as Supreme Chancellor he would have had a lot to answer for.. even if only for causing the invasion.


That also got me thinking. Anakin always bore a particular hatred against Nute Gunray for his multiple attempts on Padme's life (which are in turn due to the Neimoidian's grudge against her, but that's irrelevant).

In Labyrinth of Evil, Anakin is in search of a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious, whom he knows is behind the Separatists. When he finally discovers that Palpatine is Sidious, why does he not go batshit?

[Eframepilot]

Hmm.. yeah, since Palpatine planned the invasion of Naboo in order to set in motion the events leading to his election, if it was discovered during his tenure as Supreme Chancellor he would have had a lot to answer for.. even if only for causing the invasion.


That also got me thinking. Anakin always bore a particular hatred against Nute Gunray for his multiple attempts on Padme's life (which are in turn due to the Neimoidian's grudge against her, but that's irrelevant).

In Labyrinth of Evil, Anakin is in search of a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious, whom he knows is behind the Separatists. When he finally discovers that Palpatine is Sidious, why does he not go batshit?

Because Palpatine had just told Anakin that Palpatine was the only one who could save Padme from certain death. To Anakin's credit, he didn't immediately focus on that but instead turned on Palpatine ("YOU'RE the Sith Lord!") and drew his lightsaber.

Anakin was genuinely furious at Palpatine. Here he was, questioning the Jedi Order and even Padme in the deleted proto-Rebellion scenes and they turn out to be exactly right about Palpatine after all. If it wasn't for the hook of saving Padme, Palpatine would have died right there. ("Are you going to kill me?" "I would certainly like to.") Well, maybe Anakin would have decided that murdering the Supreme Chancellor of the galaxy in cold blood wasn't the smartest thing to do, but he definitely wouldn't have saved Palpatine from Windu.

[frogcurry]

Being able to nominate someone to vote on your behalf could be quite useful given the scale of the civilisation and the amount of possible things to vote on. You might want to have specialists handle certain things. How many MP's or US senators understand every issue in their countries they are asked to vote on?

[Anguirus]

In Labyrinth of Evil, Anakin is in search of a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious, whom he knows is behind the Separatists. When he finally discovers that Palpatine is Sidious, why does he not go batshit?

Palpatine already owns him by then, also, at least for the most part. He has already accepted his philosophies, and Sidious can defend his own actions in light of them. In addition, he can easily blame any specific crimes on those naughty Seperatists that he was forced to use in order to make the galaxy a better place. "And then you taught them the lesson they so richly deserved, didn't you, Lord Vader? You had your vengeance. It was all as I had foreseen."

[Shadowtraveler]

Palpatine was letting Amidala speak on his behalf, though. He even says as much.

So what? That just makes my point for me. In no legislature I know of are outsiders allowed to speak for a legislator and actually make a motion in the chamber, as both Amidala did for Palpatine and later Jar-Jar Binks would for Amidala, but in the Galactic Senate, senators can apparently authorize others to speak and even vote for them. As long as whoever it actually was was authorized by Palpatine, it's a legal vote (the whole thing is moot because it was Amidala anyway, but even if it hadn't been, under that body's rules, it would have been a legal vote).

Most legislatures on Earth don't represent several sovereign nations at the same time.

It makes some sense. If there's a specific problem on one or two planets and not the entire sector, the leaders of those planets can address the Senate directly instead having to have their Senator do it for them.

[Srynerson]

Being able to nominate someone to vote on your behalf could be quite useful given the scale of the civilisation and the amount of possible things to vote on. You might want to have specialists handle certain things. How many MP's or US senators understand every issue in their countries they are asked to vote on?

That is an interesting possibility. It would make the Republican Senate similar to the European Union Council - each member state has a seat on the Council, but different representative ministers fill the seats depending on the subject matter under discussion: +http://www.consilium.europa.eu/cms3_fo/ ... =en&mode=g

[Havok]

Palpatine was letting Amidala speak on his behalf, though. He even says as much.

So what? That just makes my point for me. In no legislature I know of are outsiders allowed to speak for a legislator and actually make a motion in the chamber, as both Amidala did for Palpatine and later Jar-Jar Binks would for Amidala, but in the Galactic Senate, senators can apparently authorize others to speak and even vote for them. As long as whoever it actually was was authorized by Palpatine, it's a legal vote (the whole thing is moot because it was Amidala anyway, but even if it hadn't been, under that body's rules, it would have been a legal vote).

In the AOTC Visual Dictionary it says that Jar Jar is Naboo's Associate Planetary Representative in the Galactic Senate. Does that equate to co-Senator, or is the Senate a mix of what our system is like; House and Senate?

[CmdrWilkens]

In the AOTC Visual Dictionary it says that Jar Jar is Naboo's Associate Planetary Representative in the Galactic Senate. Does that equate to co-Senator, or is the Senate a mix of what our system is like; House and Senate?

What it may be is something along the lines of each sector has a delegation. That delegation is headed by the Senator and is nominally run by him/her/it. However the delegation includes representatives from each of the member worlds all of whom can speak in place of the Senator who, really, is just speaking for the delegation. Thus Amidala, as queen, is speaking as a representative of Naboo and as the temporary spokesperson and delegate from her sector.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Is Perjury legal in the Galactic Republic?

[Civil War Man]

Is Perjury legal in the Galactic Republic?

You asked this question in the other Palpatine thread, and both seem to make little sense as to why you brought it up. A legal system that allowed for perjury would not be able to stand on its own for days, much less millenia. It hardly matters if perjury is illegal or not if the person in question is skilled enough to cover all angles if and when he does commit it.

Of course, Palpatine is reknowned for being able to use specific parts of the truth in order to further his own agendas.