An Imperial Force gets an unpleasant surprise...

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-01 01:04am

Scenario: An ISD drops a garrison on a small uninhabited planet and leaves.

The vehicles deploy, the AT-AT's stay close to the base, while the AS-ST's patrol.

As one of the Scout Walkers move slightly out of sight of the other vehicles and the base (thanks to some large trees), a portal opens 200 meters in front of the Scout Walker. The pilot promptly stops his vehicle.

Out of the portal steps...Godzilla!

Godzilla roars a challenge at the walker and advances menacingly, the Scout immediately retreats and radios to the base for assistance.

The Imperials are surprised, and the Imperial vehicles are moving to intercept Godzilla while staying in range of base defenses and Ties are launched.

Then suddenly, another portal appears and out steps...Gamera!

Godzilla sees Gamera and roars a challenge at him. Gamera reacts to his challenge and advances, the Imp base in his path.

Can the Imperials survive this battle of the titans?

Notes:

Godzilla and Gamera are their Heisei versions of themselves.

The portals are closed and will not reappear for the duration of the scenario.

The base is a standard prefabricated garrison base, with standard amounts and types of units supplied.

The Imperials are surprised and haven't raised the shield yet.

Opinions? Questions?

Crossover_Maniac · Post by **Crossover_Maniac** » 2002-08-01 01:36am

If the AT-AT blasters are even in the kiloton range, Godzilla might be in for a bad day. If they're at the megaton or even gigaton range, he'd dead.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2002-08-01 01:39am

If Godzilla and Gamera fight each other, they both probably lose. They would ignore the Imperial base, and the Imps would be able to watch them fight, observe their relative strengths and weaknesses, call for reinforcements to be prudent, and plan an attack for defeating, disabling, or destroying the weakened victor.

However, if both monsters decide to attack the base (let's say some trigger-happy soldier shoots at them), they probably win. Godzilla-class monsters are pretty tough beasts. And while the Sony/Matthew Broderick version of Godzilla was stupefyingly awful vomitous shit, the true Godzilla shakes off armour-piercing missiles that would hole a warship. The only weapon that would probably hurt him is an AT-AT's heavy forward armament. The problem is that AT-AT's are built for providing artillery support at long range, not for combating 100 foot tall monsters at close range. If Godzilla's already on top of them, he can just knock them over, and their maneuverability is limited (they may also be forced to refrain from full-power blasts at such close range because of collateral effects). Another problem with Godzilla is that you've got to virtually annihilate him in order to kill him; any damage which is not fatal is quickly healed by his X-factor.

If the Imps had time to prepare and distance over which to take full advantage of AT-AT firepower, they'd do pretty well. But given the scenario, in which the Imps are taken by surprise and at close range, I don't see how they would win (except for a pyrrhic posthumous victory, since they would have undoubtedly called for reinforcements, and not even Godzilla can withstand orbital bombardment from an ISD).

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-01 01:45am

I think the AT-AT's could stand up to Godzilla, considering that they can withstand thermonuclear blasts in close proximity.

EMLally · Post by **EMLally** » 2002-08-01 02:53am

Doesn't the average Imperial garrison include TIE support, as well? If there's even one TIE bomber in there, things will start looking nasty for the critters, I'm sure.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-01 06:00am

If there is a ship in orbit a pinpoint bombardment would give the two beasts a really bad day,

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-01 08:37am

No ship in orbit he mentioned that already

And to be honset I love this senarior after I got done laughing it relay intireged me

However as I've said it a dozen times Garrisons have built in defenses

Including a Perimiter shield

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-08-01 01:50pm

How far are the monsters from the garrison. If they're not an immediate threat, I could see the someone in the garrison taking bets on the fight.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-08-01 02:37pm

I agree with wong on this one. At close range the AT-AT's will get knocked over, stomped on and all around ripped up, smaller ground forces will burn like piggys from his breath and the shield won't be very efffective since it doesn't protected against solid objects. Godzilla will just walk right threw it. TIE attacks would probly do nothing to godzilla and he just might grab one in the process. It really depends on the guns on the base. If they are AT-AT strengh or up, godzilla is just one giant bullseye. Otherwise they might have to try to concentrate their fire on gamera, giving him a little flesh wound so he'll flee to the see and then worry about the big G.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-08-01 06:28pm

IIRC Imperial garrison bases come complete with turbolasers and anti-fighter defenses. I think Godzilla is screwd in this one

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-08-01 07:01pm

http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/I ... GBase.html

30 TIE Fighters, 5 bombers.

10 AT-ATs
10 AT-STs
40 Speeder Bikes
60 Landspeeders
100 Miscellaneous Vehicles
NOTE: Vehicles included in the count are XP-38 Landspeeders, cargo loadlifters, and various construction vehicles

800 Stormtroopers
200 Perimeter Support Troops
150 Base Security/Detention Troops
40 Scout Troopers

3 Heavy Twin Turbolaser Turrets
6 Heavy Laser Turrets
? Tractor Beam Projectors
NOTE: Turbolasers designed for use aboard Star Destroyers have occasionally been used as replacement weapons for Garrison Bases.

Godzilla dies.

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-02 01:50am

paladin wrote:How far are the monsters from the garrison. If they're not an immediate threat, I could see the someone in the garrison taking bets on the fight.

They're close enough to be an immediate threat, and the base is inbetween Gamera and Godzilla.

How tall is a garrison base? Is it taller than 80 meters?

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-02 01:52am

Mr Bean wrote:No ship in orbit he mentioned that already
And to be honset I love this senarior after I got done laughing it relay intireged me

However as I've said it a dozen times Garrisons have built in defenses

Including a Perimiter shield

I took that into account.

That's why I said the Imperial vehicles are staying in range of base defenses to benefit from their firepower.

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-02 01:54am

I see people saying Godzilla will die, but what about Gamera?

Will he fare any better?

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-08-02 07:00pm

Ah, I finally get to use my calcs...

The following calcs I did to find out the power out put of the cartoon american Godzilla's breath.

Since Heisei Godzilla is many times more powerful than the cartoon american Godzilla, I think that you can at least use these an uber-conservitive low end

WARNING: The following calcs were written for scientifically ignorant 12 year olds. Just skip over my explanations of specific heat, heat of fusion etc. I'm too damn lazy to delete the sections for you

In the three parter: "Monster War", Godzilla fought Cyber-Godzilla. During one instance, when Cyber-Godzilla was knocked down onto the ground, Godzilla fired a thermonuclear breath at CyberGodzilla's head, and melted an area around CyberGodzilla's head into Glass. I'm basing these calcs off of that instance.

Diameter of sand melted on TV: 16 cm

From Cyber-Godzilla's eye to nose: 7.7 cm

Now from the scene in G98 when Nick and “Godzilla” are face to face, we find that the distance from Cyber-Godzilla's (ressurrected corpse of movie version) eye to nose is 14 ft, giving us a ratio of 1.82 ft per cm

Diameter of sand melted: 29.09 ft.

Area of a circle: pi * r^2

pi: 3.14
r: 14.55 ft

surface area of glass melted: 663.83 ft^2 or 202.39 m^2

Now, considering the amount of surface destruction, it would not be too much a stretch of the imagination to assume that there was melted glass a meter below the surface, giving us a

volume for the melted sand: 202.39 m^3

Denisty of sand: 1535.7kg/ m^3

Mass of melted sand: 310,810.323 kg

melting point of sand: 1676.67*C

Now, because the sand in question was on an island in the south pacific, i.e, tropical paradise, let's assume that the

Starting temperature of sand: 30* C

This makes the

change in temperature: 1676.67*C - 30* C = 1646.67* C

Now, every substance has a specific heat that is required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of substance 1*C. This specific heat for sand is .836* C

Now we can use the equation q=ms changeT

q: energy required to perform the task in Joules

m: mass of substance in grams

s: Specific heat of the substance.

change in T: Change in temperature

Q = 310,810,323 kg * .836 * 1676.67* C

Q= 4.36 E11 joules or 435 gigajoules

However, this only brings us up to the melting point of sand while still being a solid. More energy must be added to transform it from solid sand at melting point to liquid sand at its melting point.

50.55 kj/mol are necessary to do this.

(*note* this is the heat of fusion for silicon, not for sand, but since I can’t find the heat of fusion for sand...)

The formula for sand is Si O2, giving it a mass of

28.085 + 16(2) = 60.085 g/mol

(310,810,323 g)( 1 mol / 60.085g)(50.55 kj / 1mol) = 261.5 megajoules

261.5 megajoules = .262 gigajoules

for a total of 435.262 gigajoules

There are 4.19 gigajoules of energy in 1 ton of TNT. Therefore, in order to melt the sand, Godzilla would have had to have shot out 103.88 tons of TNT

Now, Godzilla's breath attack lasted 9 seconds in this scene. Assuming that the sand needed all of the energy to melt, Godzilla was shooting out 11.55 tons of TNT per second

Now I don't know that much about AT-AT armor, but I think that those who are more informed 'bout Imperial armor can use these calcs somehow.

As for Gamera, he has consistantly taken kiloton range weapon fire and survived (just barely) a low-megaton yield explosion. Though he did go comatose for several days in a cacoon of ash....

here are the calcs for what hit him...

http://www.rodansroost.com/cgi-bin/ikon ... T;f=2;t=52

[/list]

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-08-02 07:08pm

Garrison Base TLs are at least 200 GT. Godzilla dies.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2002-08-05 10:58pm

Ahhh, but you are forgetting the scientific explanation provided by the Japanese scientist in "Attack of the killer tomatoes"
The explanation is: "It has to do with 'bigness'. When things get so big, then things that would normaly hurt or kill them, like, say an armor piercing tank round, or a missile, (dramatic pause) don't."

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-08 11:51pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:Ah, I finally get to use my calcs...

The following calcs I did to find out the power out put of the cartoon american Godzilla's breath.

Since Heisei Godzilla is many times more powerful than the cartoon american Godzilla, I think that you can at least use these an uber-conservitive low end

WARNING: The following calcs were written for scientifically ignorant 12 year olds. Just skip over my explanations of specific heat, heat of fusion etc. I'm too damn lazy to delete the sections for you

In the three parter: "Monster War", Godzilla fought Cyber-Godzilla. During one instance, when Cyber-Godzilla was knocked down onto the ground, Godzilla fired a thermonuclear breath at CyberGodzilla's head, and melted an area around CyberGodzilla's head into Glass. I'm basing these calcs off of that instance.

Diameter of sand melted on TV: 16 cm

From Cyber-Godzilla's eye to nose: 7.7 cm

Now from the scene in G98 when Nick and “Godzilla” are face to face, we find that the distance from Cyber-Godzilla's (ressurrected corpse of movie version) eye to nose is 14 ft, giving us a ratio of 1.82 ft per cm

Diameter of sand melted: 29.09 ft.

Area of a circle: pi * r^2

pi: 3.14
r: 14.55 ft

surface area of glass melted: 663.83 ft^2 or 202.39 m^2

Now, considering the amount of surface destruction, it would not be too much a stretch of the imagination to assume that there was melted glass a meter below the surface, giving us a

volume for the melted sand: 202.39 m^3

Denisty of sand: 1535.7kg/ m^3

Mass of melted sand: 310,810.323 kg

melting point of sand: 1676.67*C

Now, because the sand in question was on an island in the south pacific, i.e, tropical paradise, let's assume that the

Starting temperature of sand: 30* C

This makes the

change in temperature: 1676.67*C - 30* C = 1646.67* C

Now, every substance has a specific heat that is required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of substance 1*C. This specific heat for sand is .836* C

Now we can use the equation q=ms changeT

q: energy required to perform the task in Joules

m: mass of substance in grams

s: Specific heat of the substance.

change in T: Change in temperature

Q = 310,810,323 kg * .836 * 1676.67* C

Q= 4.36 E11 joules or 435 gigajoules

However, this only brings us up to the melting point of sand while still being a solid. More energy must be added to transform it from solid sand at melting point to liquid sand at its melting point.

50.55 kj/mol are necessary to do this.

(*note* this is the heat of fusion for silicon, not for sand, but since I can’t find the heat of fusion for sand...)

The formula for sand is Si O2, giving it a mass of

28.085 + 16(2) = 60.085 g/mol

(310,810,323 g)( 1 mol / 60.085g)(50.55 kj / 1mol) = 261.5 megajoules

261.5 megajoules = .262 gigajoules

for a total of 435.262 gigajoules

There are 4.19 gigajoules of energy in 1 ton of TNT. Therefore, in order to melt the sand, Godzilla would have had to have shot out 103.88 tons of TNT

Now, Godzilla's breath attack lasted 9 seconds in this scene. Assuming that the sand needed all of the energy to melt, Godzilla was shooting out 11.55 tons of TNT per second

Now I don't know that much about AT-AT armor, but I think that those who are more informed 'bout Imperial armor can use these calcs somehow.

As for Gamera, he has consistantly taken kiloton range weapon fire and survived (just barely) a low-megaton yield explosion. Though he did go comatose for several days in a cacoon of ash....

here are the calcs for what hit him...

http://www.rodansroost.com/cgi-bin/ikon ... T;f=2;t=52

[/list]

So has Godzilla.

But that won't help either one of them here though.

Too much firepower from the base.