De-cannonize the EU.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-30 04:13am

havokeff wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Infinities was a one-shot series, more like Marvel What if? and DC Elseworlds.
No, that's Star Wars Tales. Infinities is a categoriser for canonicity.
I thought that the Infinities stories were the ones where like Luke dies on Hoth and Han goes to Dagobah instead?

It's both a non-canon series and a non-canon category. I should correct myself, in that Star Wars Tales was a comic title which included stories which fell under the non-canon Infinities category.

Ever look stuff up?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-30 04:19am

Personally the only thing about the EU I don't like is the bullshit that was vomited out of the KOTOR games. That's really it. The rest of the EU is stuff that I either like or don't care much about, minus a few isolated books and titles that I really do hate. But I don't let those titles influence my opinion over the EU as a collective whole.

I don't really make that big of a deal out of it, and as a whole I like it because it provides a vast background for the story's universe.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-07-31 01:09am

You think KOTOR is the WORST the EU has to offer? Are you serious?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-07-31 02:31am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:You think KOTOR is the WORST the EU has to offer? Are you serious?

Evidently, he's pissed of at it because it contradicts a few obscure comic and RPG sourcebook sources on the foundation of the Republic, and uses an RPG-esque play system (or at least, that's what I could gather when I asked him the last time).

Personally, I think the KOTOR is some of the best that the EU has to offer, and is miles beyond most of the post-ROTJ stuff since Thrawn.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-31 03:10am

At the very least, KOTOR has a SW feel to it. Much more so than a large portion of the EU. It certainly is the best SW based game. Republic Commando and the Battlefronts are fun.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-07-31 03:16am

havokeff wrote:At the very least, KOTOR has a SW feel to it. Much more so than a large portion of the EU.

Spanky would say that it doesn't have a Star Wars feel to it, hence why he hates it. Of course I would agree with you, that it feels more like Star Wars than most of the EU put together.

But the EU is like that. Some people like some of it, others hate all of it, or parts of it, and so on.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-07-31 03:26am

KOTOR is the best Star Wars game if you live in a parallel universe where TIE Fighter doesn't exist. Not only is that the best Star Wars game, it may be the best movie adaptation game ever.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-31 03:28am

RedImperator wrote:KOTOR is the best Star Wars game if you live in a parallel universe where TIE Fighter doesn't exist. Not only is that the best Star Wars game, it may be the best movie adaptation game ever.

Never played it. Not much of a PC gamer. Berate away!!

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-07-31 03:31am

havokeff wrote:
RedImperator wrote:KOTOR is the best Star Wars game if you live in a parallel universe where TIE Fighter doesn't exist. Not only is that the best Star Wars game, it may be the best movie adaptation game ever.
Never played it. Not much of a PC gamer. Berate away!!

You're missing out. Mind you, KOTOR was a fine game, but TIE Fighter just plain owns.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-07-31 03:33am

RedImperator wrote:KOTOR is the best Star Wars game if you live in a parallel universe where TIE Fighter doesn't exist. Not only is that the best Star Wars game, it may be the best movie adaptation game ever.

TIE Fighter is a great game, but not everyone likes fighter simulations. Based on that, KOTOR has a wider appeal. They're both great games.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-31 05:34am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:You think KOTOR is the WORST the EU has to offer? Are you serious?

No, that is not what I'm saying at all whatsoever. I know in fact there is much worse in the EU than KOTOR, The Crystal Star and Darksaber, for example. I just personally dislike KOTOR more.

Noble Ire wrote:Evidently, he's pissed of at it because it contradicts a few obscure comic and RPG sourcebook sources on the foundation of the Republic, and uses an RPG-esque play system (or at least, that's what I could gather when I asked him the last time).

It isn't so much what it contradicts as what it crams in. The main thing I hate about KOTOR can be summed up in one word:

Rakata.

I despise the idea of the Rakata and their stupid, galaxy-changing, planet-altering, tiny five-hundred world Infinite Empire that comes out of nowhere and functions like such a fucking do-it-all magic bullet to all these settings that used to have nothing to do with each other. All of a sudden now these Rakata pipsqueeks are virtually responsible for God damn everything.

They're too recent to be mysterious and ancient, they're too weak to be represented as this uber-strong body, and they disregard other, more powerful and mysterious vanished civilisations that have come before them, sometimes by millions of years, just so they can be some tiny little big bad old guys. The Infinite Empire's placement is one of the worst examples of a lack of understanding of history, scale, and setting, all because special little Bioware to do their own God damned thing, continuity and setting be fucked. I frankly wished they were never fucking created and that the Starforge was really just some ancient artifact from the old Sith Empire.

The Rakata destroys the romantic feeling that Star Wars' galactic history had, making everything in Star Wars happen all in just the last weekend, so to speak. Everything's made to happen within the last 50,000 years, ignoring how much had been established in the Galaxy for the preceeding hundreds of thousands, sometimes even millions of years. So I prefer to completely ignore them and concentrate only on the elements which provide stability to the epic scope.

What also bothers me are the stories and plots for both games, essentially I feel like they're double reduxes of the Great Sith War, which they occur almost immediately afterwards. To have such massive, Galaxy-shaking events occuring in a fifty year span right after each other just strikes me as both unoriginal writing and overkill. At the very least, the two games should have represented smaller conflicts.

Stofsk wrote:Spanky would say that it doesn't have a Star Wars feel to it,

I don't really think it feels a lot like Star Wars. What it feels like is more or less Dungeons & Dragons vaguely playing dress-up as Star Wars. It's not that it's a RPG, but that Bioware wasn't creative enough to distance the feel away from D&D.

I could probably phrase both major points better, but it's really late/early and I'm not at my brightest...

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-07-31 12:12pm

One of the few things that REALLY bugged me about KoTOR was the Rakata somehow being responsible for creating Kashyyyk's entire ecosystem in much less than a million years, as some kind of messed-up agricultural system gone haywire. THAT, and some of the other Rakata stuff, was stupid. But overall, that was easy to ignore in the context of the whole game, which was both great fun and a great story.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-31 03:32pm

KotOR was too much of a D&D story and a minimalist setting for me to get into. Technically it was a decent enough game to get through once, but everything else is so dull; it feels like I've done every location and quest thirty times that playing a second character was a chore. 'Collect Five Things' adventures are old hat and Bioware needs to put away the Amnesia plot card.

Too much mirrored the movies and much of the new stuff felt uninspired. Plus the little quirky things like 'everyone speaks the same four Huttese sentences' killed it for me. Although in retrospect I will admit the visual style felt more like Star Wars than the Tales of the Jedi comics, but mostly because the later reflected a minimalistic view of advancement.

I put the game into the same box as KJA books and ugly comics. This box covers the stain of the Junior Reader stuff.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-07-31 04:11pm

Rakata and The Infinite Empire make no sense to me too. Its the absolute wrong way to do ancient progenitor races, of which the GFFA ALREADY had the Architects of the Corellian System and the Sharu.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-07-31 04:21pm

Rakata cheese.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-01 12:39am

I had completely forgoten about the Rakata. When I was playing the game I just kinda took them as a race that was technologically advance in a time when the rest of the galaxy wasn't and were over estimating thier importance, leaving stupid robots around that exaulted thier greatness. I never took it literally. It's not canon info is it?

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-08-01 01:29am

You mean stuff like the Rakata giving the Corellians hyperdrive? It's in the New Chronology.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-01 01:36am

Shadowtraveler wrote:You mean stuff like the Rakata giving the Corellians hyperdrive? It's in the New Chronology.

Crap.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-08-02 01:32pm

What can I say? Humans just can't be trusted to make all the cool stuff by themselves.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-02 02:07pm

Well it was already known beforehand that hyperdrive was given to the Galaxy by another alien species, it's just that for a long time the identity of that species was unknown.