Don't the Sith/Dark jedi etc. have legal protection?

[Stofsk]

A fact missed by a mile is that Palpatine did nothing illegal by killing those jedi.

Say some generls show up in the white house and claim Dubja to be under arrest for his treason.(*sigh* If that only could happen...) They are wielding guns. Then GWB somehow draws a gun and kills those 3 guys.

That's not even remotely analogous. As Publius laboured to point out, the Jedi are not law enforcers. Generals are a part of the chain-of-command, whereas Jedi appear to be separate from that yet still under a kind of de facto subordinate role to the Chancellor. Though Mace Windu claimed the Jedi's authority comes from the Senate itself.

Whatever, it's hair splitting. However if Dubya could be proved to have committed treason himself then it would be (as I understand - not an expert on US law) perfectly appropriate for him to come under arrest.

After the first coup/assassination attempt, the next logical step would be to execute that order, since he can bet that the jedi will be at his heels from now on. For just a religious cause, since they have no evidence for a REAL crime.

So how is it self defence now?

As hard as it might be to process that fact, LEGALLY, the chancellor was right to exterminate the jedi, since they were traitors to the republic.

So was he. Claiming he's in the right for slaughtering the Jedi because the Jedi came one day to arrest him is bollicks. He had orchestrated the war to begin with, his was the greater betrayal of the Republic.

Mace Windu isn't a squeaky clean, sterling silver saint, but that doesn't mean Palpatine had any legitimate reason to commit mass-murder.

[LaCroix]

However if Dubya could be proved to have committed treason himself then it would be (as I understand - not an expert on US law) perfectly appropriate for him to come under arrest.

Emphasis mine. No prove for Palpys treason was present, so he was perfectly legal in fighting those "enemies of the state", who, as you say have no law enforcing role and came to arrest him for religious disputes. And they made it perfectly clear that they would use force to arrest him.

So how is it self defence now?

It wasn't.
It was the next logical step if you learn that a religous group with superhuman powers tried to take over the government.

You are still seeing it from the viewpoint that he in fact WAS guilty. noone in the SW world (exept Anakin) knows that, and the puplic knowledge is the viewpoint under which we have to review the legality. He was not even accused of treason, he was only persecuted for his religion!

Yes, he was guilty(of treason), but noone knew! So, in the public eye, all his actions were perfectly legal. He (as always) could tell them the *truth*, some jedi attempted a coup.

So was he. Claiming he's in the right for slaughtering the Jedi because the Jedi came one day to arrest him is bollicks. He had orchestrated the war to begin with, his was the greater betrayal of the Republic.

And how much evidence is present against him? However, there is enough evidence for a attempted coup of 4 jedi masters. That's called politics. Happens all the time on this litte muddy ball in space.

[Ritterin Sophia]

So, in the public eye, all his actions were perfectly legal. He (as always) could tell them the *truth*, some jedi attempted a coup.

Of course, this IS under the assumption that perjury isn't a crime, correct?

[LaCroix]

So, in the public eye, all his actions were perfectly legal. He (as always) could tell them the *truth*, some jedi attempted a coup.

Of course, this IS under the assumption that perjury isn't a crime, correct?

As there is no accusation for it present, it doesn't matter. As long as noone can prove it, it is not relevant.

We are seeing it from the filmviewers point of view, we know more than everyone in the movies. The people over there have no hint of what Palpatine was doing. Not even the Jedi could prove his treason, they only assumed he was under influence of the sith or a sith.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Personally i think Palpatine was BSing when he said the Sith were protected under Republic law.

Could the Republic be THAT retarded? I seriously doubt it.

I mean honestly, that would mean for all intents and perposes that the Republic passed a law that states the following:

"No religion--even if it's known to cause psychosis, harbor maniacs, mass-murderers and sociopaths, and grants it's practitioners superhuman abilities which cannot be controled or contained by the civlian government--is prhibitied under Republic law. Even if this same religion tried no less than three times to destroy the Republic and conquer the galaxy."

I mean look i'm all for religious freedoms too, but if there was an analogue to the Sith in today's world (say a cult of mutants with telekinesis a la the Brotherhood from X-Men) then i would hope the government would pass a law banning it.

I mean...really, it would be EXTREMELY stupid to allow the Sith to function without laws, at least, limiting their ability to participate in society, or else you're just asking to be conquered by another Sith Empire as soon as some tard named Darth Assholian hinds a holocron and decides he's the inheritor of Lord Someandsuch's great empire or some shit.

And before anyone tries dont even thinka bout drawing an analogy to a modern religion--NO existing religion causes psychosis or grants the users such vast physical powers, so there can be no comparison. And yes IF something like Christianity or Islam or Scientology gave the practitioners superpowers AND drove them insane in the process, i would be the first to patition for it's being made illegal.

It's a matter of public safety and basic logic: the Sith are a threat to everyone they come into contact with, and this has been shown innumerable times. Take a look at the history of the Sith on Wookiepedia if you've any doubt at all that the Dark Side both causes megalomania and psychotic episodes, AND gives the users massive and uncontrollable power.

[Civil War Man]

"No religion--even if it's known to cause psychosis, harbor maniacs, mass-murderers and sociopaths, and grants it's practitioners superhuman abilities which cannot be controled or contained by the civlian government--is prhibitied under Republic law. Even if this same religion tried no less than three times to destroy the Republic and conquer the galaxy."

I think you are confusing Sith Lords with Sith Cultists. A person doesn't have to be a Force-using Jedi, for example, to believe in the tenets of the Jedi Order. (EDIT: Nor does one have to be a priest to be a Catholic, to try to draw some vaguely related analogy)

That, and until the appearance and death of Maul, the Sith Lords were assumed to have been completely wiped out. After that, they had nothing to indicate another Sith Lord except for the hintings of Dooku. Frankly the threat from Sith Lords was pretty remote. In the time between Bane and Maul, the Sith were probably included under protected religions because there were literally zero known Force-using Sith.

[Noble Ire]

That, and until the appearance and death of Maul, the Sith Lords were assumed to have been completely wiped out. After that, they had nothing to indicate another Sith Lord except for the hintings of Dooku. Frankly the threat from Sith Lords was pretty remote. In the time between Bane and Maul, the Sith were probably included under protected religions because there were literally zero known Force-using Sith.

Indeed. If someone was a self-professed Sith, he might get some ascance looks, but few outside of the Order would actually suspect that he might be an actual, Force-using sociopath. Think about the Neo-Nazis in the United States; they actively follow the principles of an organization that slaughtered millions of people and declared war on the US itself in decades past, but now they are protected under free speech laws. People, or at least rational people, may still regard them as scum, and potentially dangerous, but they lack the backing, material, or leadership to pose a serious risk to the nation. I suspect Palpatine didn't actively expound his Sithian affilitation, and the artifacts on display could easily be discounted as odd collectors items, but if push came to shove, his status would be protected.

[Havok]

Being a powerful Force user capable of besting multiple Jedi Masters with a lightsaber in self-defense is a crime, havokeff? How?

NOWHERE did I say Palpatine commited any crimes. In fact waht I said was that what he did was legal. I mearly said the his prowess with a lightsaber and being able to kill 3 Jedi Masters in the span of about 10-20 seconds proved he was a Sith Lord. THAT'S IT! NOT that being able to do it was a crime. Try reading the post.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Have we ever seen any non-force Sith? Aside from slaves or conscript warriors?

I can recall none, mind you i'm not well versed in the EU but as far as i know its part of BEING a Sith that you have to have at least some Force power.

The whole idea of the Sith is that they're the counterpart to the Jedi, who by the way, as far as i know have no non-Force members either aside from some servants and serfs i would presume. Even their librarians are Force sensitive and their Diplomats, as i understand it.

And anyway its splitting hairs. So what if 'most' (however many that is) of the Sith had no Force powers (which i dont think has been proved) that still doesnt mean that there arent unimaginably dangerous Sith worshipers out there.

And also this ignores completely the fact that numerous times they have declared war on the Republic and had to literally be fought to extinction to be contained and EVEN THEN they werent. Even IF we assume what you're saying is true--and again i've seen no evidence of non-Force Sith OR Jedi--it makes no difference. They're a violent fanatical, i dare say suicidal, cult of anarchists who have tried several times to disrupt society, killed trillions, and caused unspeakable carnage.

Not to mention that we know for a fact the Dark Side causes insanity and makes those exposed to it eventually become megalomanical killers (i'd love to see a Sith or Dark Jedi who isnt evil...there simply arent any as far as i know) and that everyone who comes into contact with it eventually becomes 'darker' and more sinister. Even Mace Windu, a Jedi who could tap into the Dark Side, became quite brooding and sinister for it, it would seem.

The Dark Side is fueled by anger, hate, passion, and worse yet it destroys the inhibitions (many of them well founded) of it's 'host' when it latches on to you. So it not only destroys your inhibitions, it pens the floodgates of your emotions, and for icing on the cake grants you superhuman powers.

There is simply no logical reason, even if they were thought to be extinct, that the Sith shouldnt have been outlawed and all evidence of their 'religion' (if you want to start calling worshiping an energy source that drives you insane a religion) utterly expunged from existance. The only explainations is either:

They were, and Palpatine was being sarcastic.

They werent and the Republic, against all my hopes, was THAT retarded.


And yes i think violent antisocial groups like self-progessed 'Neo-Nazis' and Klansmen should be outlawed too. Fuck free speach they're a danger to the general public, the numbers of people killed, maimed, terrorized, by the Klan and their kind easily go into the thousands, probably far more even than were killed by AQ on 911! Easily! I simply hoped that the Republic wasnt as short sighted and stupid as our own government.

[Ghost Rider]

Except in all that 18, you still haven't shown why being a Sith immeidately makes it a crime. Until you show that, you're blowing a lot of hot air, you have to show that having a belief equates to commiting an illegal act.

And havok's bit about killing 3 masters=Sith Lord. How so? I'm talking a layman who's seen that Grievious defeating Jedi, they are not going to know the difference between a regular Jedi and a Master.

[Havok]

Back to the original post... I think that being a Sith in the Old Republic would be akin to being a Nazi in our present day world.

Although the 3rd Reich has been all but erased from everywhere but our history books, if they found a living Nazi today he would still be subject to the same courts that the 1940 Nazis were subject to at Nuremberg. (sp?)

When the Sith were wreaking havoc across the galaxy killing millions they were in the fore front of everyones mind. After their defeat I would be surprised if laws against being a Sith were not eneacted. Such as laws against Nazism were enacted.

The catch to this is time. It would still be remotely possible to find a Nazi of the 3rd Reich living today. However in SW, a millenia have passed and to find a Sith from the time when they were a feared force in the galaxy would be almost impossible unless it was an incredibly long lived species such as a Wookie or a Yoda, whatever the hell he is.

In our society and under our laws we do not LEAGALLY persecute sons or daughters of Nazis, or even self proclaimed Nazis, such as Americas Neo-Nazis.

I'm sure that in the SW galaxy, under Republic law, which seems very similar to ours, that this would be the case.

So while we, the audience know that the Sith in the movies are the TRUE Sith with a direct political, and idealogical link to the Sith from a thousand years ago, the populace of the SW galaxy would have a hard time believeing that to be the case even IF you could prove it. ESPECIALLY, since the only real experts one the Sith, aside from a few scattered historians, the Jedi, have been saying they are extinct, and have been for a millenia.

I think therefore that claiming to be a Sith, or even being accused of being a Sith in the prequell movies would be like claiming to be, or being accused of being a Nazi in the U.S. today. While you may be hated and hunted for it, it would not be illegal in of itself, and would actually be a protected belief/religion/political allegence under our Constitution.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Except in all that 18, you still haven't shown why being a Sith immeidately makes it a crime. Until you show that, you're blowing a lot of hot air, you have to show that having a belief equates to commiting an illegal act.

I wasnt saying that exactly i was saying, i think Palpatine was being sarcastic when he said they were 'protected' because i dont think the Republic would ever have allowed that to happen at all. And with good reason.

Indeed, i would think it would be extrordinarily stupid of them if they did, even if the Sith were supposedly extinct. To allow such anarchistic elements to run free would have been just about as retarded as allowing say the Neo-Nazis to have free reign (which they do in our world, which is my point, you'd have to be retarded to let people who you know are violent and delusional go buck wild which i dont think the Republic is that stupid).

But if you need a reason why its a crime, i direct your attention to the, what? Three? Four...times the Sith have actively tried to subvert the Republic's duly elected government. They should, if the Republic have any sense at all, have been declared a terrorist state and outlawed like the way most countries outlaw Al-Queda. They are in fact the exact smae thing, a bunch of insane religious cultists who are intent upon overthrowing the government, and i see no reason why the Republic would have treated them different.

Surely during the wars against the Sith laws prohibiting Sith within Republic space MUST have been passed. Unless they were rescended, then they probably still are in effect, which i believe was the point of Mace Windu's accusation "You're a Sith Lord" it is probably like saying "You're a general in Al-Queda" , in other words, being a member of a well known international (interstellar in this case) outlaw sect that is considered a terrorist faction by just about anyone who can read a history book.

[18-Till-I-Die]

In fact where does it say precisely the Sith are 'protected' under Republic law? Are we to take Palp's dialogue on face value, when it flies in the face of all common sense (in the same as as Magneto claiming the Brotherhood is protected under free speach or some such nonsense).

I mean we literally only have the word of a known psychopath, which is to say his word is as good as the paper it's printed on.

[Ghost Rider]

You keep saying surely and must have. But until you show that Mace wasn't expounding upon his order's beliefs and was enforcing proper Republic law...you have no proof but your suppositions.

So do you have prove that saying you're a card carrying Sith equates to illegal?

[Havok]

And havok's bit about killing 3 masters=Sith Lord. How so? I'm talking a layman who's seen that Grievious defeating Jedi, they are not going to know the difference between a regular Jedi and a Master.

Okay, that is just silly. Mace Windu is at the very least a minor celebrity. He is well known as a Master, as well as the other Masters that came to arrest Palps. He even names them all individually and they are documented as Masters. Do you think it was "layman" who analyized the recording he made in his office? Doubtfull.

What you are saying is almost the same as saying you or a "layman", couldn't tell the difference between Bruce Lee and a fist year student of Jeet Kun Do if they were fighting each other. Silly.

[Ghost Rider]

In fact where does it say precisely the Sith are 'protected' under Republic law? Are we to take Palp's dialogue on face value, when it flies in the face of all common sense (in the same as as Magneto claiming the Brotherhood is protected under free speach or some such nonsense).

I mean we literally only have the word of a known psychopath, which is to say his word is as good as the paper it's printed on.

Because we have seen in other parts of the literature that religion's aren't persecuted. So as I say again...you have proof the Sith is an illegal religon, and this wasn't Jedi personal bias?

[Ghost Rider]

And havok's bit about killing 3 masters=Sith Lord. How so? I'm talking a layman who's seen that Grievious defeating Jedi, they are not going to know the difference between a regular Jedi and a Master.

Okay, that is just silly. Mace Windu is at the very least a minor celebrity. He is well known as a Master, as well as the other Masters that came to arrest Palps. He even names them all individually and they are documented as Masters. Do you think it was "layman" who analyized the recording he made in his office? Doubtfull.

What you are saying is almost the same as saying you or a "layman", couldn't tell the difference between Bruce Lee and a fist year student of Jeet Kun Do if they were fighting each other. Silly.

You have proof then the laymen believe that the other people with Mace were Jedi Masters?

Oh wait, you haven't show shit in that manner and with this post focused upon Mace = minor celebrity = obvious proof.

So put up dumbfuck...really it's getting fucking tiresome to run around this when one side is avoiding the actual burden of proof.

[Noble Ire]

Have we ever seen any non-force Sith? Aside from slaves or conscript warriors?

I can recall none, mind you i'm not well versed in the EU but as far as i know its part of BEING a Sith that you have to have at least some Force power.

A vast majority of the Sith Empire of the KOTOR era was made up of non-Force using volunteers. They joined up and broke from the Republic for various reasons (hatred of Jedi, hatred of the Republic's slow bureaucracy, the lust for power, etc.), but few of them, at least among the officer corps, were impressed conscripts. Additionally, Palpatine himself had among his core of advisors individuals who were not Force-users, and yet worshiped the Dark Side of the Force.

The whole idea of the Sith is that they're the counterpart to the Jedi, who by the way, as far as i know have no non-Force members either aside from some servants and serfs i would presume. Even their librarians are Force sensitive and their Diplomats, as i understand it.

The Jedi also had non-Force affiliates. Aside from allies and advocates in the general populace, there was at least one organization, called the Rangers or something, that actively assisted the Order and essentially served as irregulars for them. IIRC, this is the group of blaster-wielding soldiers you fight in the Battlefront II mission when you purge the Jedi Temple.

There is simply no logical reason, even if they were thought to be extinct, that the Sith shouldnt have been outlawed and all evidence of their 'religion' (if you want to start calling worshiping an energy source that drives you insane a religion) utterly expunged from existance. The only explainations is either:

They were, and Palpatine was being sarcastic.

They werent and the Republic, against all my hopes, was THAT retarded.

Yes, because every bit of Nazi and Communist periphinalia was destroyed after each respective war, and discussion of each became taboo. And don't forget, we also outlawed the Prodestant and Catholic Churches for the crimes each comitted throughout the centuries.

And yes i think violent antisocial groups like self-progessed 'Neo-Nazis' and Klansmen should be outlawed too. Fuck free speach they're a danger to the general public, the numbers of people killed, maimed, terrorized, by the Klan and their kind easily go into the thousands, probably far more even than were killed by AQ on 911! Easily! I simply hoped that the Republic wasnt as short sighted and stupid as our own government.

The Republic quite obviously was stupid and corrupt, at least by the time of the PT. Simply wishing it was another way does not invalidate my point.

Surely during the wars against the Sith laws prohibiting Sith within Republic space MUST have been passed. Unless they were rescended, then they probably still are in effect, which i believe was the point of Mace Windu's accusation "You're a Sith Lord" it is probably like saying "You're a general in Al-Queda" , in other words, being a member of a well known international (interstellar in this case) outlaw sect that is considered a terrorist faction by just about anyone who can read a history book.

As havokeff points out, a millenium had past since the last Sith Lord passed into hiding. Certainly, there were anti-Sith laws in place during the periods when the Sith Empire was an actual, functioning organization, but expecting those laws to persist through such a long period of inactivity is ridiculous. If I was to walk into Boston and claim to be a Tory, would I be lynched? If I went to Moscow and claimed to be a follower of Napoleon, would anyone do more than laugh at me? If I went to Germany and declared that I was a Roman citizen, would I be chased back across the Rhine?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well as i've been all over Wookiepedia and i cant find any actual record of what the Republic constitution says, i'll then concede the point about the Sith being illegal since i cant prove it at the moment. Anyway, yes so point conceded, i cant prove it.

Though i should point out something i said earlier, being that its also known as documented the mental effects that the Dark Side have on people and one could make a perfectly valid claim that a Dark Side practitioner is mentally unfit for office (and as we've seen, this is precisely the case). You can look at the other prveious 'darths' to see what prolonged Sith worship does to a person's mind (Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Vader, and Darth Malak are prime examples of the extreme changes in personality, delusions, sociopathy and megalomania that are common amongst Sith and Dark Siders in general).

To give you a better idea, if the President was found to be a hopeless Meth addict (Meth's effects seem to be fairly close to what the Dark Side does, minus the superpowers) and was frequently high as a kite on the shit while making vital decisions, i would hope that he could be removed from office based on his unhinged mental state.

[Havok]

And havok's bit about killing 3 masters=Sith Lord. How so? I'm talking a layman who's seen that Grievious defeating Jedi, they are not going to know the difference between a regular Jedi and a Master.

Okay, that is just silly. Mace Windu is at the very least a minor celebrity. He is well known as a Master, as well as the other Masters that came to arrest Palps. He even names them all individually and they are documented as Masters. Do you think it was "layman" who analyized the recording he made in his office? Doubtfull.

What you are saying is almost the same as saying you or a "layman", couldn't tell the difference between Bruce Lee and a fist year student of Jeet Kun Do if they were fighting each other. Silly.

You have proof then the laymen believe that the other people with Mace were Jedi Masters?

Oh wait, you haven't show shit in that manner and with this post focused upon Mace = minor celebrity = obvious proof.

So put up dumbfuck...really it's getting fucking tiresome to run around this when one side is avoiding the actual burden of proof.

Ok. In the ROTS novelaztion Palpatine names each person that has come to arrest him by name, even commenting on one of their telepathic abillities. In the same novelization there is a transcript dialouge thats says exactly who is speaking. Palpatine didn't make the recording to keep it hidden. It is his "proof" of a Jedi coup. That is of course just common sense, or maybe un-common sense, depending on who may be reading this. Of course there is no "actuall proof" of anyone having common sense in the SW universe, so I am probablly am... just a dumbfuck. Why don't you read the novel yourself and then you will see what I am talking about.

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, that is just silly. Mace Windu is at the very least a minor celebrity. He is well known as a Master, as well as the other Masters that came to arrest Palps. He even names them all individually and they are documented as Masters. Do you think it was "layman" who analyized the recording he made in his office? Doubtfull.

What you are saying is almost the same as saying you or a "layman", couldn't tell the difference between Bruce Lee and a fist year student of Jeet Kun Do if they were fighting each other. Silly.

You have proof then the laymen believe that the other people with Mace were Jedi Masters?

Oh wait, you haven't show shit in that manner and with this post focused upon Mace = minor celebrity = obvious proof.

So put up dumbfuck...really it's getting fucking tiresome to run around this when one side is avoiding the actual burden of proof.

Ok. In the ROTS novelaztion Palpatine names each person that has come to arrest him by name, even commenting on one of their telepathic abillities. In the same novelization there is a transcript dialouge thats says exactly who is speaking. Palpatine didn't make the recording to keep it hidden. It is his "proof" of a Jedi coup. That is of course just common sense, or maybe un-common sense, depending on who may be reading this. Of course there is no "actuall proof" of anyone having common sense in the SW universe, so I am probablly am... just a dumbfuck. Why don't you read the novel yourself and then you will see what I am talking about.

True, I forgot he does mention each Jedi by the master prefix...but your entire point was this was definitive proof of being a Sith Lord when there's General Grievious and he's managed to slay Jedi. In fact, it's noted that Palpatine was never known as a Sith Lord by other literature.

So I ask fucking again, where is the damning proof that KILLING 3 JEDI is a Sith Lord again.

[Eframepilot]

I'm sure that the Sith were not explicitly included as a protected religion in the Galactic Republic but rather weren't excluded by some general "freedom of religion" law. After all, why bother banning a cult that only ever had a handful of members and is currently (believed to be) extinct?

Also, most of the important lines being debated here - Palpatine's taunt about his religion being protected and Mace's inability to give a reason for the arrest beyond, "You're a Sith Lord!" occur only in the novelization. Given that Palpatine and Mace did not say anything like that in the movie itself, doesn't that make all of this a moot point? By suspension of disbelief, there was only one single course of events in the Chancellor's office, and by Lucasfilm canon rules and visuals-over-written-records, we accept the movie's potrayal as the most accurate, true one. I suppose that Mace and Palpatine could have said their alternate novelization lines in some parallel reality, but we can't blame movie Mace for not giving a proper charge when movie Palpatine didn't ask for one.

[Havok]

You have proof then the laymen believe that the other people with Mace were Jedi Masters?

Oh wait, you haven't show shit in that manner and with this post focused upon Mace = minor celebrity = obvious proof.

So put up dumbfuck...really it's getting fucking tiresome to run around this when one side is avoiding the actual burden of proof.

Ok. In the ROTS novelaztion Palpatine names each person that has come to arrest him by name, even commenting on one of their telepathic abillities. In the same novelization there is a transcript dialouge thats says exactly who is speaking. Palpatine didn't make the recording to keep it hidden. It is his "proof" of a Jedi coup. That is of course just common sense, or maybe un-common sense, depending on who may be reading this. Of course there is no "actuall proof" of anyone having common sense in the SW universe, so I am probablly am... just a dumbfuck. Why don't you read the novel yourself and then you will see what I am talking about.

True, I forgot he does mention each Jedi by the master prefix...but your entire point was this was definitive proof of being a Sith Lord when there's General Grievious and he's managed to slay Jedi. In fact, it's noted that Palpatine was never known as a Sith Lord by other literature.

So I ask fucking again, where is the damning proof that KILLING 3 JEDI is a Sith Lord again.

Look, if you can find any other person/character that can kill 3 Jedi Masters in the aproximate time span of 10 -20 seconds that is not a Sith Lord or any lord for that matter, then show them to me. In the mean time you are RIGHT I have absolutely no proof that these actions prove that Palpatine is a Sith Lord. He is just a old man who is the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and just happens to dabble in lightsaber fighting. He just got lucky.

[Havok]

I'm sure that the Sith were not explicitly included as a protected religion in the Galactic Republic but rather weren't excluded by some general "freedom of religion" law. After all, why bother banning a cult that only ever had a handful of members and is currently (believed to be) extinct?

Also, most of the important lines being debated here - Palpatine's taunt about his religion being protected and Mace's inability to give a reason for the arrest beyond, "You're a Sith Lord!" occur only in the novelization. Given that Palpatine and Mace did not say anything like that in the movie itself, doesn't that make all of this a moot point? By suspension of disbelief, there was only one single course of events in the Chancellor's office, and by Lucasfilm canon rules and visuals-over-written-records, we accept the movie's potrayal as the most accurate, true one. I suppose that Mace and Palpatine could have said their alternate novelization lines in some parallel reality, but we can't blame movie Mace for not giving a proper charge when movie Palpatine didn't ask for one.

Ok, well if you want to dismiss the novelization, then based on what Mace said in the movie he was there to arrest Palpatine on behalf of the Senate. In which Palpatine responds; "I am the Senate!!"
Mace: "Not yet!"
Palpatine: "It's treason then."

This version shows no trace of treason, since Mace said he was there on behalf of the Senate whom the Jedi legally serve. Plapatine doesn't bother to ask what the charge is, or why the Senate wants him arrested. Palpatine simply states he is the Senate and then attacks 4 Jedi Masters that have been duely serving the Republic in the Clone Wars, without any provocation other then he doesn't want to be arrested and he believes the attempt to be treason.

Now what you gather from this is entirely your own opinion, but based on the movie over the novel it definately weakens Palpatine's case for self defense. This is assuming there was a recording made during the movie as there is in the novel. If not, then none of our opinions matter because everyone who saw or knows what happens is dead by the end of ROTJ and nothing was ever said, thought about or discussed about this monumental event because it was NEVER mentioned in the next 3 movies.

[Civil War Man]

This version shows no trace of treason, since Mace said he was there on behalf of the Senate whom the Jedi legally serve.

Except Mace wasn't there on behalf of the Senate, seeing as how the Senate in no way authorized his actions. He was acting entirely on the behalf of the Jedi Order, and probably figured the Senate would rubberstamp it afterwards.