Skywalker/Vader/Luke's mom love triangle and Gary Kurtz

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-02 08:37pm

I just read this in a wiki entry about "Lucas bashing"...

The answer to the question why Obi-Wan Kenobi lied to Luke about his father. Many fans were disappointed by the explanation given in Episode VI, feeling Kenobi's "certain point of view" line sounded more like rationalization than a reasonable explanation. Kurtz has hinted that the original plan called for a love triangle between an unnamed "Skywalker Senior" (not Vader), Luke's mother and Darth Vader, where Obi-Wan was unaware of the identity of Luke's true biological father. Proponents argue that this would at least go toward solving the absurdity of having Luke hidden under his own name. Also note that the name Anakin Skywalker was not mentioned in the saga before Return of the Jedi was released.

Can anyone verify the bolded part and provide a source? I'd be very interested to see if it's true that Kurtz made these hints since it's exactly what I was proposing weeks ago in another thread.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-02 09:18pm

That's honestly the first time I've heard of it explained as a love triangle being the reason.

Though I'm pretty dubious of quite a bit of the "Kurtzian" side concerning the development and evolution of the story...

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-02 10:18pm

Given his role in the development of Star Wars since the very beginning, I'd take Kurtz's word over just about anyone else's at this point. Lucas's own credibility is pretty much worn out after so many years of contradictions and revisions.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-02 10:49pm

The problem I have with many of the things Kurtz has said about story development is that they don't have any backing sources, they're just isolated statements. Compare that with Lucas, and that many of his statements and actions have been quite documented and sourced over the years. Even though he occasionally contradicts himself now, the fact of the matter is that much of what he has said and written about the story's development in the past has been documented.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-02 11:52pm

Galvatron wrote:I just read this in a wiki entry about "Lucas bashing"...

The answer to the question why Obi-Wan Kenobi lied to Luke about his father. Many fans were disappointed by the explanation given in Episode VI, feeling Kenobi's "certain point of view" line sounded more like rationalization than a reasonable explanation. Kurtz has hinted that the original plan called for a love triangle between an unnamed "Skywalker Senior" (not Vader), Luke's mother and Darth Vader, where Obi-Wan was unaware of the identity of Luke's true biological father. Proponents argue that this would at least go toward solving the absurdity of having Luke hidden under his own name. Also note that the name Anakin Skywalker was not mentioned in the saga before Return of the Jedi was released.
Can anyone verify the bolded part and provide a source? I'd be very interested to see if it's true that Kurtz made these hints since it's exactly what I was proposing weeks ago in another thread.

There is an old interview with Kurtz, where he talks about the ideas he and Lucas had about what they were going to do with Luke's sister, ROTJ and the prequels, where Ep 1 was going to be about the history of the Sith and then 2 and 3 about Anakin/Vader. I think he also touches on what you posted. I'll see if I can track it down.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-08-03 12:58am

The idea of 1 being of a different timeline than 2 and 3 is stupid, IMHO. Lucas chose rightly to make the whole thing about Vader.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2006-08-03 01:02am

Though i would have liked to see the history of the Sith and Jedi some more. I so far have just read about them on Wookiepedia and i found it quite fascinating.

But yeah it would have been difficult unless all three prequels were in a different time, and that would have excluded a full explaination of Vader's origin so yeah this was probably best.

But seeing like the Great Hyperspace Wars or the Starforge War on screen would have been cool. Maybe another time...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-08-03 01:04am

Not enough backstory; SW is an arc, not episodic.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-03 01:22am

http://www.filmthreat.com/index.php?sec ... views&Id=8

This might be the article I remember, but something doesn't seem right in it, because I remeber Kurtz saying specifically that Ep 1 was going to explore the history of the Sith. It doesn't, however, say anything about a love triangle, still interesting, even if most of this has been posted already.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-03 01:24am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Not enough backstory; SW is an arc, not episodic.

Despite the fact that it's installments are titled "Episode X"?

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-03 01:52am

I've read that interview, but never anything by Kurtz about the love triangle that I quoted from wiki.

And I agree with IP that making Episode I into some expository historical prologue to the whole saga would be stupid.

Then again, TPM practically was that.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2006-08-03 03:12am

havokeff wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Not enough backstory; SW is an arc, not episodic.
Despite the fact that it's installments are titled "Episode X"?

It is an omage to the old Flash Gordon stories, which would have major arcs split into episodes.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-03 10:30am

Here's an interview over at IGN from 2002 (I linked directly to the relevant page). I believe that Kurtz knows what he's talking about and he does present some good points regarding ROTJ.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-08-13 11:36am

Please. Gary Kurtz is the Pete Best of Star Wars.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-13 01:48pm

Elfdart wrote:Please. Gary Kurtz is the Pete Best of Star Wars.

They never made another good Star Wars movie without him.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-13 02:12pm

Galvatron wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Please. Gary Kurtz is the Pete Best of Star Wars.
They never made another good Star Wars movie without him.

Also without Marcia Lucas.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2006-08-13 03:10pm

Galvatron wrote:I've read that interview, but never anything by Kurtz about the love triangle that I quoted from wiki.

And I agree with IP that making Episode I into some expository historical prologue to the whole saga would be stupid.

Then again, TPM practically was that.

It would be interesting to make a movie called Episode 0. With no real story but just a whole movie with a narrator (not fucking C3P0 or JarJar) and subtitles that does a huge history of the Star Wars universe.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-13 05:11pm

Like a Star Wars version of the Silmarillion?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-08-13 05:58pm

Perhaps it could be done Homeworld cutscene-style, or something minimalist like that. It seems like it would be effective while a whole lot cheaper than hiring actors, as well as saving people from suffering through bad acting, editing, and effects.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-13 06:00pm

Galvatron wrote:Like a Star Wars version of the Silmarillion?

That might actually be a cool idea. Lucas isn't so hot on dialouge but as far as action and creating an engaging story, or in this case history, he'd probably give fans exactly what they want. It would also be a nice way to add his final input to the SW galaxy. Who better to tell how the SW galaxy came to be as we know it then the person who first envisioned it.

It would probably fuck the EU in the ass though.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-13 06:17pm

havokeff wrote:Who better to tell how the SW galaxy came to be as we know it then the person who first envisioned it.

We have fanfic writers on this very board who would probably do a better job of it, IMO.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-08-13 07:17pm

Galvatron wrote:
havokeff wrote:Who better to tell how the SW galaxy came to be as we know it then the person who first envisioned it.
We have fanfic writers on this very board who would probably do a better job of it, IMO.

The cynicism is strong in this one.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-08-13 08:46pm

Galvatron wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Please. Gary Kurtz is the Pete Best of Star Wars.
They never made another good Star Wars movie without him.

They made one great one (ROTS), two very good ones (TPM and AOTC) and one good one (ROTJ). Lucas also made Tucker and the Indiana Jones movies. What has Kurtz done since TESB?

<crickets chirping>

Lucas did just fine without Kurtz, just as Francis Coppola got on quite nicely without Robert Evans (the genius who wanted to cast Robert Redford as Michael Corleone in The Godfather), another producer who has spent thirty years trying to claim credit for the success of a classic because he hasn't done dick since.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-13 09:17pm

Elfdart wrote:They made one great one (ROTS), two very good ones (TPM and AOTC) and one good one (ROTJ).

I think we live in different universes. In my universe, TPM and AOTC were wretched, ROTS was merely watchable and ROTJ was mediocre at best.

Lucas also made Tucker and the Indiana Jones movies.

Lucas had a little help from Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan with the Indy flicks and Coppola directed Tucker.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-08-14 12:18am

Galvatron wrote:
Elfdart wrote:They made one great one (ROTS), two very good ones (TPM and AOTC) and one good one (ROTJ).
I think we live in different universes. In my universe, TPM and AOTC were wretched, ROTS was merely watchable and ROTJ was mediocre at best.

Lucas also made Tucker and the Indiana Jones movies.
Lucas had a little help from Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan with the Indy flicks and Coppola directed Tucker.

No, merely different opinions. Personally, I don't understand why everyone hates ROTJ so much; it is one of my favorites out of the six.

Same goes for TPM. Admittedly Jar Jar was a bit of a miscalculation, but the lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon and Darth Maul was one of the best in both trilogies.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Skywalker/Vader/Luke's mom love triangle and Gary Kurtz

Skywalker/Vader/Luke's mom love triangle and Gary Kurtz

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