The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned" (Part II)

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-07-26 12:09pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Vympel wrote:Let's not clog the thread with tangents like this- the issue has been discussed and especially with the release of the NeGD her idiotic retcon has been consigned to the dustbin. Let's save the thread for new developments.
Sorry, I'm a little out of the loop.. so the New Essential Guide to Droids has blown her low droid numbers out of the water? Excellent.
What sort of numbers exactly does the NeGD give for the CIS army?

Based on what is written in the NEgD, Ender calculated here that it supports 17.6 quintillion droids.

EDIT: Noble Ire beat me to it.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2006-07-30 05:19am

Does anyone has rogue planet?

There's a post in it where Sienar states that the 3 thousand droids Tarkin gives him might be able to conquer a planet....... if it was in the dark age of technology but it won't be able to control it.

He also makes reference to how the Trade Federation, with its immensely larger force was unable to control Naboo. As such, it was absurd that Tarkin could accept such a force to control Sekot.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-08-04 05:53am

Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2006-08-04 06:40am

Ender wrote:Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.

Nice find.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-08-04 07:14am

Oh, about 3 million, all right.. per grand army. Seconded, great find.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-04 07:23am

You mean it's been there all along?

WOW.

Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.

Darth Culator · Post by **Darth Culator** » 2006-08-04 07:50am

VT-16 wrote:Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.

Heh. Heheheh... HA! HAHAHA!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sorry. That was just... too funny.

No amount of evidence will ever end this debate. Certain people will cling to their tiny numbers until the end of civilization and beyond.

Even if George Lucas himself came out and made a public announcement explicitly saying "By the end of the Clone Wars, there were a quintillion* clones of Jango Fett in action" people would still cling to their tiny numbers. I think I understand this now.

*This is a totally arbitrary large number.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-04 08:55am

Ender wrote:Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.

Ender, I bow my head. That's beautiful indeed. Bring this to the fight.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-08-04 10:35am

Ender wrote:Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.

You have to admire Curtis Saxton's foresight.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-04 11:58am

Darth Culator wrote:
VT-16 wrote:Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.
Heh. Heheheh... HA! HAHAHA!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I wish I could say that was tongue-in-cheek, but it wasn't.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-08-04 12:52pm

Ender wrote:Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.

[Fandawhorian]Most of theses grand armies were normal troops, the clones were superheroes in the war! Besides, the ICS was retconned away by Odds anway! And uh, Palpatine was playing chess![/Fandawhorian]

While this is nice, I don't see it changing a thing in the minds of these retards. You can just add it to the pile of sources which refute Traviss's crap, but which they conveniently ignore. These are the same people who think the war still makes sense when the CIS has more capital ships than the Republic has clones, or that the Jedi would willingly help Palpatine commit his fraud.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-04 12:59pm

With this, I84 would simply show a standard army-unit on a greater, non-defined scale. We wouldn't even need to bitch about it, even if they do. They can't do anything about it either way. :P

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-08-04 01:57pm

So, it's Division<Army<Army Group<Grand Army, is it? I like it. I like it a lot.

Now all one needs is to get a Grand Army Group mentioned somewhere.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-04 03:13pm

Assuming 10,000 Jedi knights and that each of them commands a Grand Army, that would give 30 billion Clone Troopers. Hmm, still too low, but it's better than 3 million.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2006-08-04 05:40pm

Is it stated that the Jedi were at the head of every army? Or only stationed with forces in hotspots?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-08-04 05:45pm

Varies. Anakin and Obi-Wan commanded scores or hundreds of assault ships on the assault in Muunilist (Essential Chronology and CW micro series), whereas other Jedi commanded smaller but still substantial contingents (Mace Windu on Dantooine and Kit Fisto on Mon Calamari.)

Dark Lord had multiple Jedi (masters and such) in a single location, and of course Shatterpoint has examples of certain Jedi acting as agitators (Depa Billaba.)

In ROTS we typically see a single Jedi commanding when order 66 was given (Dark Lord: specifies at least 200 locations when O66 was executed, and it is specualted by another Jedi that upwards of 500 may exist.) And there is, of course Kashyyk.

In general, we might assume no more than a handful of Jedi under most cases, and single/double Jedi (a Knight/Master and Padawan, typically) being the norm.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2006-08-04 05:52pm

So... The Jedi were at the head of formations as needed, but not at the head of all formations?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-08-04 06:40pm

Vohu Manah wrote:So... The Jedi were at the head of formations as needed, but not at the head of all formations?

Essentially. There were still non-Jedi admirals and task force commanders, and there may have even been Clone generals (although I'm not sure of that).

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-08-04 07:54pm

Or instead of Clone or Jedi Generals there could be Republic Generals.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-08-04 09:08pm

VT-16 wrote:Noted this on the wookiepedia article's talk page, hopefully the 3 mill debate will vanish completely after this.

Exact quote:

Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections, page 3 wrote: The teetering governmnet of the Galactic Republic desperately spends its waning wealth on grand armies and fleets to defend its territorial unity.

Darth Culator wrote: Heh. Heheheh... HA! HAHAHA!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sorry. That was just... too funny.

No amount of evidence will ever end this debate. Certain people will cling to their tiny numbers until the end of civilization and beyond.

Even if George Lucas himself came out and made a public announcement explicitly saying "By the end of the Clone Wars, there were a quintillion* clones of Jango Fett in action" people would still cling to their tiny numbers. I think I understand this now.

The funny thing is he basically has - he was vehement in denying comparisons to Iraq, yet what do people cite to justify it?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-04 10:04pm

Think about how long it took to convince people that the Executor was far more than 5 times as long as an ISD, even when any idiot could simply watch TESB and see that fact confirmed beyond any doubt. The evidence in that case was positively overwhelming, and there was literally no canon evidence whatsoever to contradict it, and yet that particular piece of WEG-inspired stupidity persisted for more than a decade. In some circles, debate persists to this day.

Stupidity is stubborn. Traviss' "3 million" bullshit will persist for a long time, just as the idiotic "5 mile SSD" did.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2006-08-04 11:25pm

What exactly happened to all of the people arguing for the five mile SSD? Are there still some who cling to that notion?

But yeah, from what I've read in here this little issue isn't going away for awhile.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-08-05 12:30am

Balrog wrote:What exactly happened to all of the people arguing for the five mile SSD? Are there still some who cling to that notion?

But yeah, from what I've read in here this little issue isn't going away for awhile.

McEwok comes to mind...

Oh definitely. Every single noob to the TF.N thinks the Executor is 8 klicks long. After a vociferous debate, with McEwok joins in the fun, then 19klicks is enforced.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-08-05 12:52am

There's the occasional troll on Wikipedia/ Wookiepedia who will vandalize the SSD page to set it back to 8km or 12.8km as well. They don't last long.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-05 03:59am

FTeik wrote:
Ender wrote:Beautiful.

First page of the ROTS ICS, under the Republic entry mentions they are spending vast amounts of money on grand armies and fleets. grand armies being plural.

Definately more then 3 million then.
You have to admire Curtis Saxton's foresight.

Absolutely, I really like this:

Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections, page 3 wrote:The teetering government of the Galactic Republic desperately spends its waning wealth on grand armies and fleets to defend its territorial unity.

Except for Wookieepedia, have anyone used the quote elsewhere?