What can kill an ISD

[Cpt_Frank]

310??

IIRC

[NecronLord]

310??

IIRC

It's 600 something.

I might add that again the infamous 40K scaling problems begin to creep in now...

[Xon]

Actually they dumped it in a forcefield into the local star. Which due to the dodgy reasoning of the week caused it to supernova, destroying Apophis' taskforce.

WTF
Did you even watch that episode!

They dial the Gate that is currently very close to the black hole, then they activate the forcefield around the gate to slow the time dilation effects that back-propagated though the stargate!

Then they dump the Gate into the star. As the Gate 'falls' to the centre of the star, it sucks in matter causing a massively destabilizing effect to the star. The result is the star loses enough reaction mass to cause a main sequance star to go nova!

Any one want to do some calcs on how much mass the Gate would have to shift to cause a main sequance star to go nova(assuming the Star masses the same of our sun or what ever gives the lowest value for a main sequance star)?

I have seen it, several times. The fact that they did not take into account is that doing that wouldn't work. It would in fact merely shrink the star. Sucking material off the top will not instigate the core-collapse needed for a supernova, and sucking it from the center as you suggest would do no better in that the star needs an iorn core in order to form a wavefront.

Taken from here

A Type II supernova is the death of an originally main sequence
star with an initial mass 8 to 20 times that of our Sun. At
the end of the life of such stars they have gone through hydrogen,
helium, carbon, oxygen, neon, and silicon fusion and end up with
a core of iron. Iron is the end element for fusion that produces
more energy than it uses up. To fuse to heavier elements than
iron requires that the reaction use more energy than it releases.
In these old massive stars the temperatures and pressures at the
center are high enough that iron fusion can occur, but it removes
energy from the core, causing the gas pressure at the core to
drop. The core then collapses very rapidly due to gravity (whereas
before it was a balance between inward gravitation and outward
pressure forces). The collapsing core becomes dense enough that
protons and electrons can combine to form neutrons and neutrinos.
The neutrinos zip away, carrying lots of energy with them,
causing the core to collapse further. When the core is mostly
neutrons, it cannot collapse anymore and becomes rigid. The falling
material above it "rebounds" off the neutron surface and forms
a shock wave blowing all the outer layers of the star off in
a violent explosion brighter than a galaxy of stars. When all
the outer material is blown away, the core is left and is called
a neutron star.

If the star is even more massive (20, 30, or more times massive
than our Sun), the force of the rebounding shock wave is not
strong enough to blow off the outer layers of the star and it
all collapses one more time. This time the neutron star cannot
withstand the collapse and it condenses even more, becoming
a black hole, where the surface gravity is so strong that even
light cannot escape.

What the Iron core is doing is removing readly usable energy from the star, guess what the Gate to the black hole is doing?

Because the Gate connects to the Blackhole, & has gravemetric effects back-propergating thought the Gate, the Gate acts to remove vast amounts of matter from the Star and provide a strong source of gravity centred roughly in the centre of the star.

[NecronLord]

Tha gate is also removing reaction mass. By removing material from the star all it does is decrease the mass of the star.

The falling
material above it "rebounds" off the neutron surface and forms
a shock wave blowing all the outer layers of the star off

There is no way that proximity to a black hole will propogate those effects. The only known way that you could achieve this effect artificially is by accalerating the rate of fusion in the star.

What the Iron core is doing is removing readly usable energy from the star, guess what the Gate to the black hole is doing?

Removing mass without providing a center. It would reduce the overall mass of the star, not cause it to go supernova.

As a note the gate propagates gravity in a way that actually slows down the local area, not speeds it up ("A matter of time")

[A Big Flying Fish]

310??

IIRC

It's 600 something.

I might add that again the infamous 40K scaling problems begin to creep in now...

610GT to be precise.

and most IoM ships could do it. Especially considering toughness, as these torpedoes were designed to go off inside ships, and several of them were needed to take out a large ship.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I think if ROTJ taught us anything it's that a whole lotof shit can kill an ISD. The best exapmle being a fighterramming the bridge, after the shields drop of course. So most sci-fi civs with fighters could probably catch an ISD with it's pants down and run it through.

This is assuming that there is a nearby gravity-well, such as a planet, or in the case of the late ECS Executer, the Death Star.

[Rubberanvil]

From Gall Force

A Solnoid Planet Destroyer http://www.xs4all.nl/~tsunami/gallforce/data/pbc.html should be able to. Though whether or not the escort slips and fighters protecting it long enoough against the TIE onslaught is the question.

From Legend of the Galactic Heroes

Thor's Hammer may or may not be to damage or destroy an ISD.

[SAMAS]

Actually, I'd give any good-sized Solnoid or Paranoid vessel, particularly the Akon-Kaguya, Caucasus, Lorelei and Traverser, would have a chance of taking an ISD on.

[SAMAS]

And heaven forbid if the Stormies try a boarding party...

[SyntaxVorlon]

A tuba, a leafy green vegetable, and an antimatter beam cannon.

[Renewed_Valour1]

A Magog Swarmship, Magog World Ship, Basilisk or Jeger's Fighter. Or for that matter any ship armed with a PSP.

[Darth_Shinji]

A Dauntless from Lensman. Also the Nevans supership could with alot of power and the iron converter beams.

[macman]

Of course for old sci fi how about the Wave Motion Gun from the Starblazers..of course the shock of seeing a WW2 battleship coming at them might be good for a tactical surprise.....

[Darth Wong]

I think if ROTJ taught us anything it's that a whole lotof shit can kill an ISD. The best exapmle being a fighterramming the bridge, after the shields drop of course. So most sci-fi civs with fighters could probably catch an ISD with it's pants down and run it through.

If they can knock its shields down first, which requires enormous firepower. That's no minor stepping stone.

[Darth Servo]

I think if ROTJ taught us anything it's that a whole lotof shit can kill an ISD. The best exapmle being a fighterramming the bridge, after the shields drop of course. So most sci-fi civs with fighters could probably catch an ISD with it's pants down and run it through.

This is assuming that there is a nearby gravity-well, such as a planet, or in the case of the late ECS Executer, the Death Star.

That A-wing did not kill the Executer. Did you see the executer explode when the A-wing crashed through its window?

Wasn't the observed acceleration to great to have been caused by the DS gravity? So one of the Executer's own engines probably accidentally fired.

[Cpt_Frank]

A Magog Swarmship, Magog World Ship, Basilisk or Jeger's Fighter. Or for that matter any ship armed with a PSP.

those don't have FTL sensors IIRC and as such have a massive disadvantage.

[Peregrin Toker]

The only ships of the Imperium that are doubless truly superior to an ISD are
a) the battleships (of course)
b) Nova Cannon equipped ships

Then again, all Nova Cannon-equipped ships of the Imperium are Dominator-class and Mars-class cruisers - so a Dominator-class would probably easily the equal of an ISD.

A fight Empire vs Imperium would be very well-balanced and I think it'd be pretty impossible to determine a victor - that's of course in a scenario where the Imperium does not need to constantly fight with traitors, eldar, orcs etc.

Actually, the Empire has around 25,000 ISDs galaxy-wide if I recall correctly, and we don't know how many the Imperium have. Since the Imperium have to keep up with more enemies than the Empire, then they probably have more ships.

[Cpt_Frank]

Then again, all Nova Cannon-equipped ships of the Imperium are Dominator-class and Mars-class cruisers - so a Dominator-class would probably easily the equal of an ISD.

The Dominator could take an ISD no doubt. I'm not sure about the other cruisers, they could all possibly do it.

Actually, the Empire has around 25,000 ISDs galaxy-wide if I recall correctly, and we don't know how many the Imperium have. Since the Imperium have to keep up with more enemies than the Empire, then they probably have more ships.

The Empire's navy is not only composed of the 25000 ISDs, they also have VSDs, and probably hundreds of thousands of smaller and larger ships such as the ASD, the Executors, Vengeances, Dreadnoughts, Nebulons etc.

[The Nomad]

Most of the vessels of the Culture.

Anything equal or superior to a UoW-era GCU. Remember that line in Use of Weapons, from the Sma/Xenophobe dialog ?

[XaLEv]

Anything equal or superior to a UoW-era GCU. Remember that line in Use of Weapons, from the Sma/Xenophobe dialog ?

You mean that bit about Xeny and Sma sleeping together?


I haven't read Use of Weapons yet. Don't yell at me

[The Nomad]

Anything equal or superior to a UoW-era GCU. Remember that line in Use of Weapons, from the Sma/Xenophobe dialog ?

You mean that bit about Xeny and Sma sleeping together?


I haven't read Use of Weapons yet. Don't yell at me

Furball avatars would rip an ISD

I was thinking to something into those lines :
"You're a 1 million tons warship, a Psychopath-class Rapid Offensive Unit. If suddenly you wanted to...
_But I'm demilitarized !
_... you could surely blast planets into oblivion without your main weaponry.
_As any stupid GCU !"

Of course it is inaccurate since I had to retranslate it from my own language ( translation once induced me to believe that GCU were 3 km in lenght !! )

[Renewed_Valour1]

those don't have FTL sensors IIRC and as such have a massive disadvantage.

The High Guard doesn't have FTL sensor suites that are very useful. They have some tachyon based systems that they used in "The Fair Unknown" but not everyone goes around spitting out tachyon. The Magog however have been shown on the show tracking objects in real time at distances beyond the limits of c sensors. Jeger was using them in Harper 2.0 and my guess it is probably something that uses tesseracting again.

[BenRG]

How about a Colonial Battlestar? The Galactica's point-defence turrets seem to double as GP anti-ship turrets. The ship also carries more than four ship-killer missiles capable of destroying a fully-operational Base Star with one direct hit. We see the Battlestar's likely ship-to-ship capabilities in three episodes.

In the first, a heavy-handed allogary of the Cold War, the Galactica successfully shoots down an entire Eastern Alliance ICBM first strike (probably numbering thousands of MIRVs) from low planetary orbit.

The Galactica and the Pegasus have Base Star kills to their name. In the second episode in question, the Pegasus killed two Base Stars with these uber-ship-killer torpedoes that all Battlestars carry. In the third episode in question, the Galactica picked a Base Star apart with her guns. So long as the Cylons' big ship-killer ion cannon is disabled, a Battlestar seems to come out on top every time.

I would say that the Viper and the TIE would be essentially equal in space combat, as neither type seem to have shields of any kind. In fact, the only serious weakness against the Empire that the Colonies suffer from are:

1. Their lack of shielding technology. Even the Cylons only have planetary-scale shields. The generators are probably just too bulky for any other application.
2. Their reliance on energy weapons. Apart from the aforementioned ship-killer missiles, there are no other projectile weapons used in the series.

Also consider the AS 'Washington' from Anne McCaffrey's 'Tower and the Hive' series. As well as having enough firepower to BDZ a planet, the Washington can fire barrages of anti-ship missiles that can penetrate the hull of the Death Star-sized Hive Colony Spheres and cause a large enough and powerful enough chain reaction in the fuel bunkers to destroy them.

Ms. McCaffrey seems to dislike energy-based weapons. I notice that all of the Washington's described weapons are projectile weapons: mass drivers, stormfire CIWS and large-magazine rapid-fire missile launchers.

[BenRG]

Oh! I forgot to mention this:

Does anyone have any figures for the destructive power of the AI planet-killer bombs that the 'Dark Star' carries in the darkly funny film of that name? One bomb (which is about the size of a freezer cabinet) kills a planet, so if you can get it into position, it can probably do a lot of damage to any capital ship.

[Peregrin Toker]

The Empire's navy is not only composed of the 25000 ISDs, they also have VSDs, and probably hundreds of thousands of smaller and larger ships such as the ASD, the Executors, Vengeances, Dreadnoughts, Nebulons etc.

Then again, if the most numerous ships are smaller than ISDs, wouldn't they be quite easy fodder for Imperium ships??

However, Dark Empire showed several Galactic Empire battlecruisers in orbit 'round Byss which appeared to be the same size as Imperium of Mankind capital ships (3-6 km) - if ISDs are the equals of Lunar-class cruisers despite being much, much smaller and these behemoths are pitted against the Imperium, then the Imperium would probably not stand much of a chance if not for their strength in numbers.

And that's before we bring in the 10-20km long battleships such as Admiral Giel's flagship and Darth Vader's Executor....