My interpretation of the ten commandments

[Setzer]

As far as I'm concerned, the Ten commandments are a way of showing us how to live a perfect life. Naturally, it is impossible to obey them all, so they serve to show us that we can't be perfect in God's eyes, and that we need Jesus to forgive us of our sins.

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Simple enough to understand. I take this to mean that you must not worship any other gods. Other religions can be permitted to exist, but a Christian must not follow them.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This means don't worship idols. In this day and age, few religions that I know of employ idols in the traditional sense, so I also believe that "idol" is any material object you value above God or people. If you love your expensive car more than your family, the car is an idol that you are worshipping.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

This is understandable. Would you want someone using your name as a profane epithet?

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The six day creation thing is irrelevant here, but this is an essential commandment nonetheless. I'm sure we'd all go bonkers if we worked 24/7. And I define work the way Twain defines it.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

A parent usually has a vested interest in seeing their child grow up right, so they (ideally) know best. It works out in the child's best interests to obey his parents. Naturally, if the parents are abusive the child is better off in a foster home, but I don't believe the ten commandments can be obeyed all of the time anyway.

Thou shalt not kill.

Do I really have to explain this one?

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

From a practical standpoint, sexual monogamy is a way of assuring that STDs aren't spread. As for "adultery in one's heart" I think that just means viewing women (or men) as simply an object to fuck. Sexual attraction is essential to reproducing, and God did tell Adam and Eve "be fruitful and multiply", so sexual attraction in itself isn't wrong. It's when you stop viewing women (or men) as people that you're adultering in your heart.

Thou shalt not steal.

This one's basic enough. No religion believes it is right to take something that doesn't belong to you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

No lying. No religion says lying's OK either.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The implication of a wife being considered property is a cultural anachronism in my opinion. But being consumed by envy is not good in any time or era, and that's what this commandment forbids, the envy of others.

Well, what do you think? Is it full of half-baked ideas? Too pluralistic? Or is this a reasonable adaptation of Christian morality to modern life?

[Durandal]

Sounds okay to live by those rules, if you're a Christian, to me. What about the second set of commandments?

[guyver]

Looks good to me. I try to live my life by following Ten commandments for the most part.

But I also follow the golden rule.

He who has the gold makes all the rules.

[Faram]

As far as I'm concerned, the Ten commandments are a way of showing us how to live a perfect life. Naturally, it is impossible to obey them all, so they serve to show us that we can't be perfect in God's eyes, and that we need Jesus to forgive us of our sins.

Thou shalt not kill.

Do I really have to explain this one?

Thou shalt not steal.

This one's basic enough. No religion believes it is right to take something that doesn't belong to you.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

No lying. No religion says lying's OK either.

Yet in the bible there is a lot of killing going on.

Some questions.

In a struggle between life and death where you are in the position to decide who dies you or your advecary(sp?) would you kill?

Would you steal to feed a starving child?

Do you always tells the truth no matter how much the truth hurts and a lie would not harm.
Example: A friend asks you do my new haircut look good? You think it is horrible but you also know that if you say that you would hurt you friend?

[Troll from MSNBC]

Yet in the bible there is a lot of killing going on.

Some questions.

In a struggle between life and death where you are in the position to decide who dies you or your advecary(sp?) would you kill?

I believe that this refers to murder, not so much as killing, so if it were a war or defense situation it wouldn't apply.

Would you steal to feed a starving child?

I probably would, but if there were a way to get food any other way (such as asking, or borrowing etc.) I would.

Do you always tells the truth no matter how much the truth hurts and a lie would not harm.
Example: A friend asks you do my new haircut look good? You think it is horrible but you also know that if you say that you would hurt you friend?

There aer ways you can say the truth that won't hurt them as much. You don't have to say "Your haircut blows" but you could say "Hmm... I don't really like it as much, no offense, because ____ ___ ___ __" I would prefer the honest feedback in that case myself. The lying is also one of those exceptions for war time I believe also, if it means decieving an enemy to save the lives of allies, I think the no lying thing is more for a personal level anyway.

[Wicked Pilot]

<snip ten paragraphs of commandments>

I'm sorry, but those aren't the real Ten Commandments. Didn't you know that, or have you never read the Bible?

[kojikun]

First commandment says literally: worship whoever you want, but worship god more.

it says "NONE BEFORE ME" rather then "NONE AT ALL" so just make sure you jews and christians say an extra whatever to Yahweh. Muslims, bomb an extra building for Allah and Osama will give you a prize. ..

I should start a religion that advocates lying cheating stealing etc. I think I'll call it darwinism. wait no..

[Archaic`]

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

No religion says lying's OK either.

Jehova's Witnesses do, though I suppose they would/could argue that only those within the Witnesses count as their Neighbours.

[Setzer]

Yet in the bible there is a lot of killing going on.

Some questions.

In a struggle between life and death where you are in the position to decide who dies you or your advecary(sp?) would you kill?

Would you steal to feed a starving child?

Do you always tells the truth no matter how much the truth hurts and a lie would not harm.
Example: A friend asks you do my new haircut look good? You think it is horrible but you also know that if you say that you would hurt you friend?

In the first scenario, I would try and render my attacker incapable of attacking, like knocking him out or breaking a limb.

I would steal to feed a starving child if no other means were available.

As for the old "friend with a horrible haircut scenario", I feel it's better that a friend tell him tactfully, rather then allowing him to think everything is OK, then get ridiculed by someone who doesn't care about his feelings.

[Setzer]

Yet in the bible there is a lot of killing going on.

Some questions.

In a struggle between life and death where you are in the position to decide who dies you or your advecary(sp?) would you kill?

Would you steal to feed a starving child?

Do you always tells the truth no matter how much the truth hurts and a lie would not harm.
Example: A friend asks you do my new haircut look good? You think it is horrible but you also know that if you say that you would hurt you friend?

In the first scenario, I would try and render my attacker incapable of attacking, like knocking him out or breaking a limb.

I would steal to feed a starving child if no other means were available.

As for the old "friend with a horrible haircut scenario", I feel it's better that a friend tell him tactfully, rather then allowing him to think everything is OK, then get ridiculed by someone who doesn't care about his feelings.

[Scorpius]

The problem with this viewpoint (and honestly I LIKE your interpretations of these commandments) is that these are your interpretations of the ten commandments. You are obviously a nice person and your friends will speak highly of you at your funeral. However, not everyone interpreting these commandments are as nice as you.

So by having them "interpreted", the message becomes whatever the translator wants it to be.

For example: the first commandment you interpreted as

I take this to mean that you must not worship any other gods. Other religions can be permitted to exist, but a Christian must not follow them.

whereas kojikun interpreted it as:

worship whoever you want, but worship god more

You see where this leads to more problems don't you? The message is not the original text but the interpretation of the text...By interpreting the text you have imprinted your morality on the words. You did not use the words to derive your morality. Fundamentalists do the same thing; however, they're not as nice as you are...

Sorry to say it, but your "intend to disarm" scenario is a cop out. I don't think in that situation you can choose that. It avoids the question: I'll rephrase it.

You and your family are taking a kayak ride down that river that Jon Voight et al. did in "Deliverance." The same ARMED demented hillbillies start in on your family, threatening to rape and kill your wife/husband and children (and actually start in as they did in the movie.) Like Burt Reynolds you're seperated from the group and you're armed with a rifle. The bible says though shalt not kill. What do you do?

Morality comes from within. The ten commandments may be an expression of this from a certain POV but it's only one of a billion different views...

[Lord Pounder]

Yet in the bible there is a lot of killing going on.

Some questions.

In a struggle between life and death where you are in the position to decide who dies you or your advecary(sp?) would you kill?

I believe that this refers to murder, not so much as killing, so if it were a war or defense situation it wouldn't apply.

Tell that to the Muslims Christian invaders slaughtered and made slaves of during the holy wars.

[Wicked Pilot]

Try http://www.tencommandments.org. They have a truely Godly interpretation.

[Setzer]

The problem with this viewpoint (and honestly I LIKE your interpretations of these commandments) is that these are your interpretations of the ten commandments. You are obviously a nice person and your friends will speak highly of you at your funeral. However, not everyone interpreting these commandments are as nice as you.

So by having them "interpreted", the message becomes whatever the translator wants it to be.

For example: the first commandment you interpreted as

I take this to mean that you must not worship any other gods. Other religions can be permitted to exist, but a Christian must not follow them.

whereas kojikun interpreted it as:

worship whoever you want, but worship god more

You see where this leads to more problems don't you? The message is not the original text but the interpretation of the text...By interpreting the text you have imprinted your morality on the words. You did not use the words to derive your morality. Fundamentalists do the same thing; however, they're not as nice as you are...

Sorry to say it, but your "intend to disarm" scenario is a cop out. I don't think in that situation you can choose that. It avoids the question: I'll rephrase it.

You and your family are taking a kayak ride down that river that Jon Voight et al. did in "Deliverance." The same ARMED demented hillbillies start in on your family, threatening to rape and kill your wife/husband and children (and actually start in as they did in the movie.) Like Burt Reynolds you're seperated from the group and you're armed with a rifle. The bible says though shalt not kill. What do you do?

Morality comes from within. The ten commandments may be an expression of this from a certain POV but it's only one of a billion different views...

I know. That's the problem with being a moderate person, regardless of what religion you believe in. A Bible in one man's hand is more dangerous than a bottle in the hands of the next.

[Scorpius]

I know. That's the problem with being a moderate person, regardless of what religion you believe in. A Bible in one man's hand is more dangerous than a bottle in the hands of the next.

The bible is just a book for some, an indoctination tool for others, an inspiration for a few, and a weapon for many...But for most it is irrelevant as their morals do not come exclusively from just one book.

The problem is that many "Fundies" use the bible (or any other "sacred" text) as a crutch so they don't have to think about about their own morality in multiple situations. I've had discussions where I've asked the "what would you do?" question and have got a chapter/verse quotation that had nothing to do with the situation (and they were of course lying, but that's another discussion.) It's easy and lazy and avoids the whole thought process that discussions around morality SHOULD inspire.

As an aside, what was your goal in starting this thread? (Not being mean or insulting: you'll get plenty of that. Just curious)

[Setzer]

As an aside, what was your goal in starting this thread? (Not being mean or insulting: you'll get plenty of that. Just curious)

I wanted to show the rest of the group what my concept of Christian morality was like. There's been so much bashing of Fundies that I thought it would be laudable for a moderate Christian to get his view out there.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

As far as I'm concerned, the Ten commandments are a way of showing us how to live a perfect life. Naturally, it is impossible to obey them all, so they serve to show us that we can't be perfect in God's eyes, and that we need Jesus to forgive us of our sins.

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Simple enough to understand. I take this to mean that you must not worship any other gods. Other religions can be permitted to exist, but a Christian must not follow them.

I think you're being a bit of an apologist here. The spirit of the law is clearly to eliminate other religions. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a push to convert or kill, which we see in the Bible lots of times.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This means don't worship idols. In this day and age, few religions that I know of employ idols in the traditional sense, so I also believe that "idol" is any material object you value above God or people. If you love your expensive car more than your family, the car is an idol that you are worshipping.

Again, I think this has less to do with car worship than a total dedication to God, above all else. Including your family.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

This is understandable. Would you want someone using your name as a profane epithet?

I would. Then again, I have a huge ego.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The six day creation thing is irrelevant here, but this is an essential commandment nonetheless. I'm sure we'd all go bonkers if we worked 24/7. And I define work the way Twain defines it.

Why not define it the way the Bible does? Picking up stick should be punished by stoning.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

A parent usually has a vested interest in seeing their child grow up right, so they (ideally) know best. It works out in the child's best interests to obey his parents. Naturally, if the parents are abusive the child is better off in a foster home, but I don't believe the ten commandments can be obeyed all of the time anyway.

The first one that makes sense, sort of. Parents can be bad parents, and they should not be honoured just cause they procreated.

Thou shalt not kill.

Do I really have to explain this one?

No.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

From a practical standpoint, sexual monogamy is a way of assuring that STDs aren't spread. As for "adultery in one's heart" I think that just means viewing women (or men) as simply an object to fuck. Sexual attraction is essential to reproducing, and God did tell Adam and Eve "be fruitful and multiply", so sexual attraction in itself isn't wrong. It's when you stop viewing women (or men) as people that you're adultering in your heart.

Again, you are changing the spirit of the law to suit your moderate views.

Thou shalt not steal.

This one's basic enough. No religion believes it is right to take something that doesn't belong to you.

Well, some don't believe in ownership, but that's another matter.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

No lying. No religion says lying's OK either.

Another good one, it's a shame it's so far down the list.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The implication of a wife being considered property is a cultural anachronism in my opinion. But being consumed by envy is not good in any time or era, and that's what this commandment forbids, the envy of others.

House, wife, manservant. So a wife is halfway between an object that you own and a slave. And this isn't reading too much into it, this is backed up by other parts of the Bible.

Well, what do you think? Is it full of half-baked ideas? Too pluralistic? Or is this a reasonable adaptation of Christian morality to modern life?

It's a reasonable adaptation, but I think it changes the laws too much to be considered real Christianity.

[SirNitram]

I disagree, Strow. God, Hisself, never seems to say there aren't other gods or that other religions are bad. He's just being an egotist(Just worship me, dammit! I'm the best! Me before all others!). From what I recall, it would be the humans claiming divine inspiration that would claim other gods as false and start all those messy wars.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I disagree, Strow. God, Hisself, never seems to say there aren't other gods or that other religions are bad. He's just being an egotist(Just worship me, dammit! I'm the best! Me before all others!). From what I recall, it would be the humans claiming divine inspiration that would claim other gods as false and start all those messy wars.

Except God suposidly tells them to. It's in the Bible.

[SirNitram]

I disagree, Strow. God, Hisself, never seems to say there aren't other gods or that other religions are bad. He's just being an egotist(Just worship me, dammit! I'm the best! Me before all others!). From what I recall, it would be the humans claiming divine inspiration that would claim other gods as false and start all those messy wars.

Except God suposidly tells them to. It's in the Bible.

Where?

[Priesto]

I disagree, Strow. God, Hisself, never seems to say there aren't other gods or that other religions are bad. He's just being an egotist(Just worship me, dammit! I'm the best! Me before all others!). From what I recall, it would be the humans claiming divine inspiration that would claim other gods as false and start all those messy wars.

God does.Jesus says that you will be saved if you follow him Matt 16:24,25.Men make whatever they worship a god.Money, greed, jealousy and so forth.They are false gods, because there is no true power.

[Priesto]

The spirit of the Law is to bring truth.Why must we bring religion into it? You follow truth not a name or church.
Scorpius* True christians/born agains wouldn't have to think about their morality.It is only those training to become a born again christian.That would include christians, even myself.By the way don't take someones word if they say they are a chrisitian.A group of klu klux klan members will say that, that doesn't mean they represent God.

[SeebianWurm]

And you, through some rational process, decided that Hayzooz is not false? Or did you just start with that assumption?

Money is more intrinsically "real" than any religion's deities - anyone can see, feel, and use money. Anyone can feel greed or jealousy. No one has any evidence your Hayzooz exists that is not second-hand sayso. Before you spout that out of your ass again, see if you live by this checklist:

1)I know nothing about what I'm saying, but start from a Biblical assumption arrived at completely on blind, groping belief.
2)When this is pointed out to me, and the person uses actual fact that depicts Christianity in a bad light, I will scream out of context or that they are merely trying to scapegoat Christianity.
3)I am correct.

God does.Jesus says that you will be saved if you follow him Matt 16:24,25.Men make whatever they worship a god.Money, greed, jealousy and so forth.They are false gods, because there is no true power.

Money has no power? That's not so true in the real world, and neither is Hayzooz.

[SeebianWurm]

Chris·tian, adj.

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

You try to artificially narrow the selection so you can ignore the acts of Christians that disprove your theory of Christianity's superior morality. This is not something new; anyone who professes belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is a Christian in my book. Whereas in yours, there is apparently some entry test that no one is allowed to see.

Wager: he will start to claim "Christianity is good; so anyone who is not good is not Christian, no matter what they say"

[Priesto]

Chris·tian, adj.

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

You try to artificially narrow the selection so you can ignore the acts of Christians that disprove your theory of Christianity's superior morality. This is not something new; anyone who professes belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, is a Christian in my book. Whereas in yours, there is apparently some entry test that no one is allowed to see.

Wager: he will start to claim "Christianity is good; so anyone who is not good is not Christian, no matter what they say"

First thing is first.You keep making the same error.You must follow christ and have him in your heart.How can you say you believe in christ and accept him as your Lord if you do not obey him?A fool can say they profess Jesus as christ.If they really did believe, they wouldn't do half the bad things they do.Secondly, attack the person not the following.The person is at fault for their acts not a following.If a vegetarian walks around in an obscene fashion to porotest you don't blame vegetarians, you blame the person.Finally chrisitians are normal people, only they've accepted christ.I don't know where you get the whole superior morality thing.Christians are more responsible for their actions since they should have Godly knowledge, where upon they may suffer more that's it.Truth is above all else, seek it and you will find.