Did the Sith Order lose a lot Pre-Darth Bane? (spoilage)

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-08-14 12:33am

Looking over the RoTS novelization, I noticed that after the attack on the Jedi Temple, Vader reports that the ancient Sith Holocrons are once again in the hands of the Sith.

My question is, in the heavily war-torn period before Darth Bane, when the Order of Sith Lords was basically annihilated down to him, did the Sith lose a significant amount, if not the majority of, their lore and techniques to Jedi capture?

I just thought that if the above were true, it would play a major role in the Sith's change and development to fight the Jedi, particularly if they had to re-invent new techniques to cope with the new circumstances.

atg · Post by **atg** » 2006-08-14 12:49am

They could have copies of the holocrons, but the originals might have some kind of special meaning.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-08-14 01:44am

The Holocrons in the Temple were fakes. Really good fakes that were potentially corrupting to unwary Jedi, but still fakes. Palpatine says as much in Dark Lord and mentions he has the real ones.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-08-14 02:49am

So, in other words, were they incomplete copies? Obviously they must have had something of Sith origin of useful value on them, otherwise Vader probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of saying that they were back in their hands.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-14 04:03am

"Sidious didn't have to imagine the content of the devices, because his own Master, Darth Plagueis, had once allowed him access to the actual holocrons. The ones stored in the Temple archives room were nothing more than clever forgeries-Sith disinformation of a sort."

Sidious sent Vader to retrieve the holocrons mostly 'cause he was trying to shake him out of his self piting funk he was in. He later mused that he might also have to send him back to Mustafar.

The interesting thing I find in this passage is that Palpatine only knew they were forgeries because Plagueis had once allowed him access to the originals. Does that mean that Palpatine doesn't have them or that he posses them, but only needed to access them once?

Hedgehog's Roommate · Post by **Hedgehog's Roommate** » 2006-08-19 01:15am

In Zahn's book (Heir to the Empire iirc) Luke used some Jedi technique to go through his own memory in order to identify an alien he had only seen once. I don't see any reason to think that Palpatine, being the uber-sith he is, couldn't do something similar. A sort of force enhanced eidetic memory, meaning he may only need to see something once to remember it.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-08-19 12:43pm

Hedgehog's Roommate wrote:In Zahn's book (Heir to the Empire iirc) Luke used some Jedi technique to go through his own memory in order to identify an alien he had only seen once. I don't see any reason to think that Palpatine, being the uber-sith he is, couldn't do something similar. A sort of force enhanced eidetic memory, meaning he may only need to see something once to remember it.

Possible.. but I imagine the contents of the Sith holocron collection would amount to a considerable amount of data, which would require a commensurate amount of time to view.
Hmm, then again, the duration of that one "access" to the holocrons was not specified. He may have been allowed to spend days, weeks or months with them.

Still, that's not the point. The passage implies that after that time, Sidious no longer has access to Plagueis' holocrons, doesn't it?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-08-19 12:54pm

CompleteLocations shows the interior of Palpatine's medical centre. Several Sith-holocrons are stored there.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-08-19 01:08pm

FTeik wrote:CompleteLocations shows the interior of Palpatine's medical centre. Several Sith-holocrons are stored there.

Oh. That clears up a lot, thanks.

Also, considering they're located on the medical center (of all places), this implies that they must have been there for Vader to study. Not surprising, of course, but interesting nonetheless.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-08-19 06:56pm

Well, in KOTOR2, which, IIRC, is pre-Bane by a wide margin, the Jedi Master Atris had a roomful of Sith holocrons, so it's certainly possible that the Jedi often took their records and whatnot and the Sith often had to partially reinvent themselves.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2006-08-19 07:07pm

Well the Sith group that corresponds to Bane, started by a Jedi gaining access to some Holocron wasn't it?