Why do a lot of people think the federation can win?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-08-13 10:20pm

PayBack wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:
OmegaGuy wrote:According to someone at spacebattles, he meant that they had no personal gender identity when they were in the collective, and did not think of themselves or treat each other as male or female.
And when did Paramount canonize "someone at spacebattles"?
More importantly, 7 of 9 ask Harry if he wanted to have sex, and IIRC the borg did it all the time for fun. I bet them not having a gender made for some kinky times.

Did he say 'no'?

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-08-14 12:14am

Batman wrote:You have quote for that of course.

I could find it if it was THAT important to someone.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-08-14 12:15am

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Did he say 'no'?

Actually he did. He always fancied her but I think he considered it taking advantage of her in her brainwashed state.

vivftp · Post by **vivftp** » 2006-08-14 12:29am

PayBack wrote:
Batman wrote:You have quote for that of course.
I could find it if it was THAT important to someone.

Are you perhaps thinking of this scene from VOY's Revulsion?

SEVEN: Beauty is irrelevant. Unless you wish to change the nature of our affiliation.
KIM: What do you mean?
SEVEN: I may be new to individuality, but I am not ignorant of human behaviour. I've noticed your attempts to engage me in idle conversation, and I see the way your pupils dilate when you look at my body.
KIM: I don't know what you're talking about.
SEVEN: Obviously you've suggested a visit to the holodeck in the hopes of creating a romantic mood. Are you in love with me, Ensign?
KIM: Well, no.
SEVEN: Then you wish to copulate?
KIM: No! I mean, I, I don't know what I mean.
SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilization. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.
KIM: Er, Seven.
SEVEN: Don't be alarmed. I won't hurt you.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-08-14 01:03am

Yup that's the one, cheers... though when it came to the IIRC part, I didn't

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-08-14 01:21am

Sonnenberg is right: Voyager is all about how it sucks to be Harry.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2006-08-16 12:26pm

If someone thinks, the Federation can win, show them this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ALi07ScEc

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-08-16 12:56pm

Tribun wrote:If someone thinks, the Federation can win, show them this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ALi07ScEc

I think this video's much better, and the people that think the Feds would win would cling to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-08-16 01:38pm

To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-08-16 01:40pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?

You really cannot be this astoundingly stupid.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-16 01:41pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?

Rocks don't have midichlorians, and Luke had no problem levitating them with the Force.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-08-16 01:51pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?
You really cannot be this astoundingly stupid.

Didn't think it would, I was just trying to find a germ of sense in a work of shit and finding none. Regardless, force lightning passing through Deanna Troi? That was one fuckup too far.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-08-16 02:00pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?
You really cannot be this astoundingly stupid.
Didn't think it would, I was just trying to find a germ of sense in a work of shit and finding none. Regardless, force lightning passing through Deanna Troi? That was one fuckup too far.

You wouldn't need to make a spam post about Portal if you took three seconds and remembered that Force Users constantly interacted with items that had no connection with the Force as they do.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2006-08-16 02:05pm

You're right, I'd forgotten about that. I guess reading that so-called fanfic causes your IQ to drop trying to see how he justifies his BS.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-08-16 04:09pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:To go back to the whole 'portal' work and all its fallacies, I have to wonder if the ST humans would have 'metachlorians' or however they are spelt. If they don't then I sort of see what he's trying to say at about them not seeming 'real' to force-sensitive beings but, would it make a bit of difference or is it independent of them having metachlorians (sp)?

Rocks are real to Jedi. Do they have midichlorians?

MonCapitan2002 · Post by **MonCapitan2002** » 2006-08-18 12:01am

Darth Wong wrote:I never attended Trek conventions so I wouldn't know, but it's no secret that hardcore Trekkies treat the show more like a religion than a piece of entertainment. And we know how people love to say that their religion is responsible for all the good in the world, and better than everyone else's religion, etc.

Those kinds of people really creep me out. As much as I am a fan of the franchise, I can't imagine treating it like a religion. I like the franchise and I like watching the show. Star Trek is one of my favorite franchises, but I am not going to dress up and pretend it is something more than what it is (an entertaining science fiction franchise).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-18 02:51am

The really hardcore fans have some kind of mental disorder. I'm not actually being facetious; there are a number of disorders which can cause someone to focus obsessively on one particular hobby, and I suspect that many of these ultra-hardcore Trekkies suffer from those disorders.

I think there's something about Trek's sheer volume of detail (much of which is confusing, contradictory, or downright bizarre) which is particularly enticing to this type of mildly obsessive personality, in addition to its message of acceptance for social deviants.

Star Wars doesn't really have that message. Anakin Skywalker was socially maladjusted, and had a very clumsy technique with the ladies. Rather than finding acceptance, he was forced to live a life of denial and lies until he ended up being burnt to a crisp and turning into a Lord of Evil. And look at Yoda and the Jedi Order, who socially isolated themselves. Rather than the rest of society finding a way to integrate them, they ended up being annihilated by the resurgent Sith, and society didn't seem to give a shit after they were gone. There's no "loser finds social acceptance" subplot anywhere in Star Wars, but that kind of subplot is a staple of Star Trek.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-08-18 03:35am

vivftp wrote:<snip>
SEVEN: Don't be alarmed. I won't hurt you.

REDIMPERATOR: You can hurt me a little bit if you want.

God, Harry Kim was such a pussy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-18 10:09am

RedImperator wrote:
vivftp wrote:<snip>
SEVEN: Don't be alarmed. I won't hurt you.
REDIMPERATOR: You can hurt me a little bit if you want.

God, Harry Kim was such a pussy.

More to the point, he did not act like a believable lonely virgin far from home. Voyager people never really acted like people.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-08-18 12:59pm

Darth Wong wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
vivftp wrote:<snip>
SEVEN: Don't be alarmed. I won't hurt you.
REDIMPERATOR: You can hurt me a little bit if you want.

God, Harry Kim was such a pussy.
More to the point, he did not act like a believable lonely virgin far from home. Voyager people never really acted like people.

If he did, he'd have gotten a prominent tent in his pants followed very quickly thereafter by a big highly noticeable wet spot, possibly accompanied by involuntary shuddering.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-08-18 04:15pm

Jason T bullshit went over here

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2006-08-18 04:33pm

Bounty's link for Jason_T and his wonderful argument was to Darkstar's website, right? He claims that Curtis Saxton is a Pro Wars vs. debater - I'm not sufficiently familiar with the debate to know if this is correct or not, but my understanding and reading of Saxton's website is that he's never made any effort to compare Star Wars with Star Trek, and that he was doing the quantification simply for his degree (and his own entertainment). Am I missing something?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-18 04:37pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Bounty's link for Jason_T and his wonderful argument was to Darkstar's website, right? He claims that Curtis Saxton is a Pro Wars vs. debater - I'm not sufficiently familiar with the debate to know if this is correct or not, but my understanding and reading of Saxton's website is that he's never made any effort to compare Star Wars with Star Trek, and that he was doing the quantification simply for his degree (and his own entertainment). Am I missing something?

According to Jason_Tard, the fact that Saxton associates with me automatically means that everything he writes is based on an attempt to win the Star Wars vs Star Trek debate.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-08-18 04:39pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Bounty's link for Jason_T and his wonderful argument was to Darkstar's website, right? He claims that Curtis Saxton is a Pro Wars vs. debater - I'm not sufficiently familiar with the debate to know if this is correct or not, but my understanding and reading of Saxton's website is that he's never made any effort to compare Star Wars with Star Trek, and that he was doing the quantification simply for his degree (and his own entertainment). Am I missing something?

Yes. An agenda. By trying to link Saxon to the vs debate and claiming that he's pro-Wars the rabid Trektards somehow think they get to ignore his numbers, regarless of the facts that there's nothing wrong with them and that they're perfectly in line with what we see in the movies (which is what those numbers are mainly based on in the first place-surprise).

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-08-18 04:41pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Bounty's link for Jason_T and his wonderful argument was to Darkstar's website, right? He claims that Curtis Saxton is a Pro Wars vs. debater - I'm not sufficiently familiar with the debate to know if this is correct or not, but my understanding and reading of Saxton's website is that he's never made any effort to compare Star Wars with Star Trek, and that he was doing the quantification simply for his degree (and his own entertainment). Am I missing something?

Nope, you pretty much got the correct picture. Dr. Saxton has never gotten into the debates and it was others who actually made the claim that he was *nudge nudge* and *wink wink* for the SW side, when literally his entire site and the two books he did were for the sake SW and SW alone. He has more concerns of SW canoncity then anything else in concerns of that particular bent.