U.S. Theocrats Want Public Stoning and Slavery

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U.S. Theocrats Want Public Stoning and Slavery

Post by Mayabird »

Again, I would like to say that I really hate this state a lot.

I suspect that this meeting in Toccoa occured at Toccoa Falls College, a small Christian college whose application asks nothing about academics and lots about the religiousity (namely, the born-again fundamentalism) of the applicant.
Public Stoning: Not Just for the Taliban Anymore
By John Sugg, Church and State
Posted on August 15, 2006, Printed on August 20, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/40318/

Two really devilish guys materialized in Toccoa, Ga., last month to harangue 600 true believers on the gospel of a thoroughly theocratic America. Along with lesser lights of the religious far right who spoke at American Vision's "Worldview Super Conference 2006," Herb Titus and Gary North called for nothing short of the overthrow of the United States of America.

Titus and North aren't household names. But Titus, former dean of TV preacher Pat Robertson's Regent University law school, has led the legal battle to plant the Ten Commandants in county courthouses across the nation. North, an apostle of the creed called Christian Reconstructionism, is one of the most influential elders of American fundamentalism.

"I don't want to capture their (mainstream Americans') system. I want to replace it," fumed North to a cheering audience. North has called for the stoning of gays and nonbelievers (rocks are cheap and plentiful, he has observed). Both friends and foes label him "Scary Gary."

Are we in danger of an American Taliban? Probably not today. But Alabama's "Ten Commandments Judge" Roy Moore is aligned with this congregation, and one-third of Alabama Republicans who voted in the June primary supported him. When you see the South Dakota legislature outlaw abortions, the Reconstructionist agenda is at work. The movement's greatest success is in Christian home schooling, where many, if not most, of the textbooks are Reconstructionist-authored tomes.

Moreover, the Reconstructionists are the folks behind attacks on science and public education. They're allied with proselytizers who have tried to convert Air Force cadets -- future pilots with fingers on nuclear triggers -- into religious zealots. Like the communists of the 1930s, they exert tremendous stealth political gravity, drawing many sympathizers in their wake, and their friends now dominate the Republican Party in many states.

Titus' and North's speeches, laced with conspiracy theories about the Rockefellers and the Trilateral Commission, were more Leninist than Christian in the tactics proposed -- as in their vision to use freedom to destroy the freedom of others. That's not surprising -- the founder of Christian Reconstruction, the late fringe Calvinist theologian Rousas J. Rushdoony, railed against the "heresy" of democracy.

A Harvard-bred lawyer whose most famous client is Alabama's Judge Moore, Titus told the Toccoa gathering that the Second Amendment envisions the assassination of "tyrants;" that's why we have guns. Tyranny, of course, is subjective to these folks. Their imposition of a theocratic state would not, by their standards, be tyranny. Public schools, on the other hand, to them are tyrannical.

North is best known to Internet users for his prolific auguring that a Y2K computer bug would cause the calamitous end of civilization. In the days prior to the advent of this millennium, North urged subscribers to his delusional economic newsletters to go survivalist and prepare for the end. Many did so, dumping investments and life savings, a big oops.

"I lost a million and a half dollars when I sold off real estate," one of North's fans, a home-schooling advocate from Florida, told me during a lunch break between lectures touting creationism and damning secular humanism. But my lunch companion still anted more than pocket change to hear North make more prophesies in Toccoa. "I believe Gary North on Bible issues," he explained. I suggested that false prophets often pocket big profits, but I was talking to deaf ears.

Hosting the "Creation to Revelation... Connecting the Dots" event was a Powder Springs, Ga., publishing house, American Vision, whose pontiff is Gary DeMar. The outfit touts the antebellum South as a righteous society and favors the reintroduction of some forms of slavery (it's sanctioned in the Bible, Reconstructionists say) -- which may explain the blindingly monochrome audience at the gathering.

The setting was the Georgia Baptist Conference Center, a sprawling expanse of woods, hills and a man-made lake in the North Georgia mountains. Four decades ago, the Southern Baptists officially declared, "no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the state" and "the church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work."

Times change. The Baptists lust for power, and they demand the state to do their bidding. I guess that explains the denomination's hosting of theocrats no less rigid and bloodthirsty than the Taliban's mullahs.

DeMar christened the gathering with invective against science.

"Evolution is as religious as Christianity," he said, a claim that certainly must amaze 99.99 percent of the scientific community. Science is irrelevant to these folks.

Everything they need to know about the universe and the origin of man is in the first two chapters of Genesis. They know the answer before any question is asked. DeMar's spin is what he calls a clash of "worldviews." According to DeMar and his speakers, God sanctions only their worldview. And that worldview is a hash of enforcing Old Testament Mosaic law (except when it comes to chowing down on pork barbecue), rewriting American history to endorse theocracy and explaining politics by the loopy theories of the John Birch Society. (Christian Reconstructionism evolved, so to speak, from a radical variation of Calvinism, AKA Puritanism, and the Bircher politics of such men as the late Marietta, Ga., congressman, Larry McDonald.) For most of the four-day conference, DeMar turned the Bible over to others to thump. North blamed the Rockefellers and the Trilateral Commission for the success of secularists. Titus told of Jesus making a personal appearance in the rafters of his Oregon home.

At the heart of what was taught by a succession of speakers:

* Six-day, "young earth" creationism is the only acceptable doctrine for Christians. Even "intelligent design" or "old earth" creationism are compromises with evil secularism.
* Public education is satanic and must be destroyed.
* The First Amendment was intended to keep the federal government from imposing a national religion, but states should be free to foster a religious creed. (Several states did that during the colonial period and the nation's early days, a model the Reconstructionists want to emulate.)
* The Founding Fathers intended to protect only the liberties of the established ultra-conservative denominations of that time. Expanding the list to include "liberal" Protestant denominations, much less Catholics, Jews and (gasp!) atheists, is a corruption of the Founders' intent.

Education earned the most vitriol at the conference. Effusing that the Religious Right has captured politics and much of the media, North proclaimed: "The only thing they (secularists) have still got a grip on is the university system." Academic doctorates, he contended, are a conspiracy fomented by the Rockefeller family. All academic programs (except, he said, engineering) are now dominated by secularists and Darwinists.

"Marxists in the English departments!" he ranted. "Close every public school in America!"

Among North's most quoted writings was this ditty from 1982: "[W]e must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation...which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God." Titus followed that party line when he proclaimed that the First Amendment is limited to guaranteeing "the right to criticize the government," but "free expression is not in the Constitution." When I asked him if blasphemy -- castigating religion -- was protected, he shook his head.

Like North, Titus sees public education as decidedly satanic. Also, welfare. He contended the Founding Fathers -- and Americans today -- owe their "first duties to God. It's not just worship. It's education... welfare to the poor. Welfare belongs exclusively to God. Why do schools fail? They're trying to do the business of God. Medicaid goes. Education goes. The church gets back to doing what it should do." And what should the church be doing According to these self-appointed arbiters of God's will, running our lives. And stoning those who disagree.

At the Toccoa conference, DeMar organized several debates -- and he commendably invited articulate opponents of his creed.

One was Ed Buckner, a retired Georgia State University professor, unabashed atheist and a member of the Atlanta Freethought Society. He debated Bill Federer, who makes a living trying to prove America's founders intended this to be a Christian nation.

Buckner offered to concede the debate if Federer could disprove any one of four points: Americans don't agree on religion, human judgment is imperfect, religious truth can't be determined by votes or force and freedom is worth protecting. Federer ran from the challenge, and instead offered a litany of historic quotes showing that most of America's founders believed in God.

Federer never got the point that if, as he argued, government should endorse his faith today, tomorrow officials might decide to ban his beliefs.

The other debate featured University of Georgia biologist Mark Farmer versus Australian "young earth" creationist Carl Wieland. Farmer, religious himself, tried to explain that no evidence had ever damaged evolutionary theory -- at best, creationists point to gaps in knowledge.

"Yes, we don't know the answers to everything," Farmer told me. "That's what science is all about, finding answers."

It would be easy to dismiss the Reconstructionists as the lunatic fringe, no more worrisome than the remnants of the Prohibition Party. But, in fact, they have rather extraordinary entrée and influence with top-tier Religious Right leaders and institutions.

James Dobson's Focus on the Family is now selling DeMar's book, America's Christian Heritage. Dobson himself has a warm relationship with many in the movement, and he has admitted voting for Reconstructionist presidential candidate Howard Phillips in 1996.

TV preacher Robertson has mentioned reading North's writings, and he has hired Reconstructionists as professors at Regent University. Jerry Falwell employs Reconstructionists to teach at Liberty University. Roger Schultz, the chair of Liberty's History Department, writes regularly for Faith for all of Life, the leading Reconstructionist journal.

Southern Baptist Bruce N. Shortt is aggressively pushing his denomination to officially repudiate public education and call on Southern Baptists to withdraw their children from public schools. Shortt's vicious book, The Harsh Truth about Public Schools, was published by the Reconstructionist Chalcedon Foundation.

There are big theological differences between the Religious Right's generals and the Reconstructionists. Traditional Christian theology teaches that history will muddle along until Jesus' Second Coming. That teaching is tough to turn into a political movement. Reconstructionists preach that the nation and the world must come under Christian "dominion" (as they define it) before Christ's return -- a wonderful theology to promote global conquest.

In short, Dobson, Robertson, Falwell and the Southern Baptist Convention (the nation's largest Protestant denomination) may not agree with everything the Reconstructionists advocate, but they sure don't seem to mind hanging out with this openly theocratic, anti-democratic crowd.

It's enough for Americans who believe in personal freedom and religious liberty to get worried about -- before the first stones start flying.
http://alternet.org/module/printversion/40318
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Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Fundies who are really barbaric sadistic theocratic fucks! What a shock!
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Post by Stark »

Again, it's not so bad that people are behind ideas like this, it's the amount of support they have that's scary.
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Post by Vaporous »

The theocrats seem to be ramping up their assault on education. Just maybe this particular thing is crazy enough to not catapult them into power.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

And no doubt these are the same people who will point to, say, Iran, and denounce them for barbaric practices.
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Post by Ritterin Sophia »

These are the kind of people I want to see assassinated... who wants to call dibs?
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Post by Setesh »

General Schatten wrote:These are the kind of people I want to see assassinated... who wants to call dibs?
Okay putting aside how stuoid saying something like that is. You DO NOT want anyone killing any of these fucks. The first one to go down will become a rallying point for them. It wouldn't suprise me if one of them is killed by a 'mysterious agent' of the 'evil atheist/jewish/muslim agenda' who turns out to be one of his own people far to late to stop them from riding the tidal wave of sympathy vote to get some stupid shit passed.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The best thing to do is simply attack their ideal and make sure that no vacuum is formed that allows them to creep in. The current floundering of the Republican and Democratic parties is what's leading to this atmosphere now, whereby radical religionists are trying to form their own political parties and not rely on the - relatively - moderate mainstream Christians to speak for them.

It's sad that this is a reality with the world's only superpower.
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Post by wautd »

I felt like burning a bible after reading that sickening article :evil:
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Post by Simplicius »

If all else fails, and this black tumor subsumes the states, Article IV Section 4 can always be invoked:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in the Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them...on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Needless to say, there is room for interpretation here...
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Post by General Zod »

I love the way they conveniently ignore the whole bit about "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." But I suppose it would be too much to expect them to actually follow parts of the bible they don't like.
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Post by Darth Wong »

I once spoke to a Seventh Day Adventist who explained that a homosexual is worse than Hitler, because "Hitler only killed 6 million people, but a homosexual hurts all of humanity". These people are fucking scary.
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Darth Wong wrote:I once spoke to a Seventh Day Adventist who explained that a homosexual is worse than Hitler, because "Hitler only killed 6 million people, but a homosexual hurts all of humanity". These people are fucking scary.
Reminds me of an article I read a a child, in the religion section of the Press Democrat ( a newspaper ). The guy who wrote the article claimed that being an atheist was worse than sacrificing people to Kali, because at least the Kali cultist was upholding faith, and faith is all that matters.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The worst thing is that you can see how it follows logically from their beliefs and assumptions. If you believe that damnation is worse than death (a basic element of the fundamentalist belief system and a requirement for apologetics since they have to make excuses for all the butchery in the Bible), and that homosexuality is a spiritually unforgiveable "choice" that can be transmitted from one person to another (a retarded but very common fundie assumption), then it follows logically that a homosexual is actually worse than a murderer.
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Post by Darth Lucifer »

DeMar's spin is what he calls a clash of "worldviews." According to DeMar and his speakers, God sanctions only their worldview. And that worldview is a hash of enforcing Old Testament Mosaic law (except when it comes to chowing down on pork barbecue...)
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Post by Alyeska »

On the up side, to get anything remotely like what these nutjobs want would require constitutional changes. And that isn't likely going to happen since it requires majority support in every level of government.
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Post by SpacedTeddyBear »

One only hopes that people like that die off quicker than they're capable of reproducing. It's actually quite frightning that these people hold any shred of political sway at all.
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Post by Sun Wukung »

Why don't these people realize that the anti slavery movement was a mostly Christian movement? Why would they want to bring it back? Oh...they plan to enslave the unsaved, which is just one of the ways they are seperating themselves from the common Joe Bloe. The whole stoning thing is just not somthing that makes sense anymore. I wish these guys knew that the Muslims are doing this and more to those that go against the Islamic beliefs. Do they want to be like the MUSLIMS? Why do they limit themselves to this? Are they planning to start with this and then go ahead and start executon style beheadings? Free Speech my ass.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Sun Wukung wrote:Do they want to be like the MUSLIMS?
Some of them do. Some of them are honest enough to say that they oppose Islamic fundamentalism but they think the Muslims are actually right about certain things, like public "decency" and sexual values.
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Post by Vaporous »

Sun Wukung wrote:Why don't these people realize that the anti slavery movement was a mostly Christian movement?
To a large degree, so was the pro-slavery group. Both believed they had God on their side.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Vaporous wrote:
Sun Wukung wrote:Why don't these people realize that the anti slavery movement was a mostly Christian movement?
To a large degree, so was the pro-slavery group. Both believed they had God on their side.
That's the great thing about a document (the Bible) which contradicts itself everywhere, and which almost no one ever bothers reading in its entirety. You can make it say whatever you want, and most people won't even know you're full of shit by plucking these oh-so-certain bits of moral clarity from it.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Call me a dick, but I hope these fundies in the US do something really horrible, as in so fucking atrocious that the resulting public backlash will drive them into the gutter.
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Post by RedImperator »

Alyeska wrote:On the up side, to get anything remotely like what these nutjobs want would require constitutional changes. And that isn't likely going to happen since it requires majority support in every level of government.
Prohibition demonstrated how a vocal minority can ram an unpopular constitutional amendment past a fractured or unprepared majority. And they wouldn't try to put it through all at once. By the time we get to slavery and stonings, the Constitution will be toilet paper anyway; you have to fight them on bullshit like the Defense of Marriage Amendment and attempts to stip Federal court jurisdiction over establishment clause cases. Their strategy is based on slowly transforming society (hence the homeschooling movement and the creation of a parallel university system for fundamentalists, and attacks on public schools and mainstream academia), and the law. The only way we get to Christian Reconstructionist theocracy quickly is with a revolution or a coup, in which case the Constitution is irrevelant anyway.
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Post by Eleas »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Call me a dick, but I hope these fundies in the US do something really horrible, as in so fucking atrocious that the resulting public backlash will drive them into the gutter.
Yeah, that might work. It'd need to be big though. Maybe something along the lines WW2's Germany. Since, in the wake of that whole Third Reich episode, Europe now finally recognizes the inherent danger of the Christian Faith... oh, wait. They swept that under the rug without batting an eye, which would be SOP for today's Christian fundies faced with similar inconvenient facts.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

RedImperator wrote:
Alyeska wrote:On the up side, to get anything remotely like what these nutjobs want would require constitutional changes. And that isn't likely going to happen since it requires majority support in every level of government.
Prohibition demonstrated how a vocal minority can ram an unpopular constitutional amendment past a fractured or unprepared majority. And they wouldn't try to put it through all at once. By the time we get to slavery and stonings, the Constitution will be toilet paper anyway; you have to fight them on bullshit like the Defense of Marriage Amendment and attempts to stip Federal court jurisdiction over establishment clause cases. Their strategy is based on slowly transforming society (hence the homeschooling movement and the creation of a parallel university system for fundamentalists, and attacks on public schools and mainstream academia), and the law. The only way we get to Christian Reconstructionist theocracy quickly is with a revolution or a coup, in which case the Constitution is irrevelant anyway.
I'd be more afraid of these folks getting the bright idea to try the alternative method of passing a Constitutional amendment: get two-thirds of the state legislatures to tell Congress to "call a convention for proposing amendments". How many states have specifically forbidden gay marriage so far?
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