The $79,000 scam.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-08-19 10:08pm

There was a player-run orginizatio in EVE Online called the Eve Intergalactic Bank. You could deposit money, take out loans, and the bank would invest in various other companies to make a profit, just like a real bank.

Recently, the person who ran the bank decided to grab the money and run. The result is that he made off with 600 billion ISK (the EVE currency.) To put things in perspective, if he sold that ISK on E-bay, he would have made $79,000.

So . . . what exciting thing happened in World of Warcraft recently?

Link to the unofficial discussion thread on the topic.
Link to the CEO confessing his crime.

Dominus Atheos · Post by **Dominus Atheos** » 2006-08-19 10:13pm

Is that actually illegal?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-08-19 10:15pm

I can't hear what this guy is saying...

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-08-19 10:17pm

Dominus Atheos wrote:Is that actually illegal?

Not really. He's scamming virtual currency in a game. It's no more illegal than someone killing you in a game and taking your gear from your dead body.

Now selling the ISK on e-bay does violate the terms of service and if caught, will result in the Banstick. However, it's not illegal.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-08-19 10:22pm

Yeah, as far as the devs are concerned, you trusted the bank with your money. The worst that could happen is he'd get low security ratings, so if he ventured into civilized space he'd be attacked, etc... but with 600 billion, he's not anywhere near civilized space.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-08-19 10:34pm

BTW, the single largest heist previously was when the Guiding Hand Social Club stole around 20 billion ISK. It was even in PC Gamer. Hopefully, this will be too. More publicity for EVE Online is a good thing, so long as the Tuesday update will stop the servers from crashing again.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-08-20 05:45pm

Yogi wrote:BTW, the single largest heist previously was when the Guiding Hand Social Club stole around 20 billion ISK. It was even in PC Gamer. Hopefully, this will be too. More publicity for EVE Online is a good thing, so long as the Tuesday update will stop the servers from crashing again.

I wouldn't be surprised if that group is hired to infiltrate the more recent scammer.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-08-20 06:30pm

Alyeska wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if that group is hired to infiltrate the more recent scammer.

Yeah. If I was Dentara Rast the first thing I would do is to hire a few dozen mercenary corps to defend my assets. However, as long as he keeps his money and his stuff in his personal wallet and hangers, they can't be stolen. The worst thing that could happen then is people take turns sitting outside the station he's in and kill him as soon as he undocks.

However, to make things even more interesting, he says that he'll be putting a 100 billion ISK bounty on his own head and will be flying around in 0.0 space. Of course, since he's a known liar he might be lying again. Still, it will be interesting to hundreds of people out for the bounty, combined with hundreds of people who want revenge, stalking him through 0.0 space.

Note: 0.0 space is space were PK-ing is freely allowed with no restrictions.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2006-08-20 06:33pm

Yogi wrote:
Alyeska wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if that group is hired to infiltrate the more recent scammer.
Yeah. If I was Dentara Rast the first thing I would do is to hire a few dozen mercenary corps to defend my assets. However, as long as he keeps his money and his stuff in his personal wallet and hangers, they can't be stolen. The worst thing that could happen then is people take turns sitting outside the station he's in and kill him as soon as he undocks.

If I was him I'd send all the money to an alt, then use some of it to buy a new character. The scam character never logs on again, and nobody can trace him to my new character. I'm just one more wealthy character in a whole galaxy of them.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-08-20 06:34pm

When a Merc organization pulls off an incredible stunt, they have the advantage of numbers and they probably got hired to do it.

When a single individual pulls off such a stunt he makes himself into a target who is going to be targeted for the remainder of his time in the game.

Its like stealing a Tank from the cops in Grand Theft Auto. Its going to be fun for a while, but they are going to get you in the end and you will loose everything.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-08-20 06:46pm

I'd cash out, post haste. So what if they ban me? I've got 80 thousand bucks! I'd just change ISP's and make a new character.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-08-20 06:57pm

Alyeska wrote:When a Merc organization pulls off an incredible stunt, they have the advantage of numbers and they probably got hired to do it.

When a single individual pulls off such a stunt he makes himself into a target who is going to be targeted for the remainder of his time in the game.

Its like stealing a Tank from the cops in Grand Theft Auto. Its going to be fun for a while, but they are going to get you in the end and you will loose everything.

Another thing is, supposedly the people who lost the most money are some very large and very powerful alliances. So yeah, he should either get a new character, or start buying jump clones and spare ships all over the map.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-08-21 01:24am

So the guy steals almost $80,000 in in-game currency, and rather than quietly auctioning it off (in small enough batches nobody notices what's going on) and then gloating about it, he runs away with it all at once and gloats about it, drawing attention to himself and virtually assuring he'll get banned before he can make one thin dime of real world money if he tries to sell it now. He pissed away a BMW or a free college education because he wanted to wave his dick on the Internet.

Idiot.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-08-21 02:04am

Apparently what he did was entirely legal.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-08-21 02:10am

Right, but what Red meant was that he could have made real money from it if he had sold it online.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2006-08-21 02:22am

Alyeska wrote:When a Merc organization pulls off an incredible stunt, they have the advantage of numbers and they probably got hired to do it.

When a single individual pulls off such a stunt he makes himself into a target who is going to be targeted for the remainder of his time in the game..

See, in EVE-Online, the admins allow selling characters for in-game currency. He stole more than enough to buy a new character with obscene profits left over. And not only that, but transfers between characters can't be traced (by other players). If he has any common sense at all, those angry revenge-seekers will never find a target to kill.

Apparently what he did was entirely legal.

The scam itself was entirely legal (there is no protection for the stupid in EVE), but selling ISK for real-world cash is against the TOS. And with all the attention he's getting and the $80,000 numbers being thrown around, it's pretty likely the admins are keeping an eye on what happens with that money. If they catch him trying to sell it, they can just ban his account and he loses everything.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-08-21 02:46am

Hmm, now, could he buy a new account under a different name, with a different card, and transfer the money to that? Hmm, well, the admins would be watching who he traded it to. Perhaps if he got a bunch of real life friends to sign up a dozen characters and split the money, then had them sell it, hmm, the fact that the admins can watch all the transactions makes it a great deal more difficult for someone to transfer it to real money.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-08-21 02:47am

It's things like this that make me want to play EVE Online.

Unfortunately, it's not a game that gives instant gratification, and I'm just not sure if investing in multiple months is a good idea, what with otherr MMOs on the horizon that I want to play.

*sigh* Perhaps afterwards...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-08-21 03:44am

lPeregrine wrote:See, in EVE-Online, the admins allow selling characters for in-game currency. He stole more than enough to buy a new character with obscene profits left over. And not only that, but transfers between characters can't be traced (by other players). If he has any common sense at all, those angry revenge-seekers will never find a target to kill.

His actions thus far show he isn't quite that smart. If he wants to spend the money, he is going to be visible. That amount of money is not very easy to hide. He likes the bragging rights and he wants to spend his spoils.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-08-21 03:51am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:It's things like this that make me want to play EVE Online.

Unfortunately, it's not a game that gives instant gratification, and I'm just not sure if investing in multiple months is a good idea, what with otherr MMOs on the horizon that I want to play.

*sigh* Perhaps afterwards...

The barrier to entry isn't that significant. I had 'heard' that it didn't reward newbs, that there was nothing for low-end guys to do etc. Flash and I got free trials, and it's all bullshit. The interface is complicated/unwieldy, but it's not hard unless you're an idiot (like many games, general chat is full of people asking questions that are answered in the manual/tutorial). It's perfectly possible to make money doing low-rent mining, NPC 'agent missions', or running cargo.

For instance, after half a dozen hours of play, I had four different ships, was making a million in-game dollars every few hours, and having a great time killing NPCs. Flash, on the other hand, skilled up for big cargo haulers, borrowed a few million off me to get himself started and makes similar or more money. This is with totally starting characters and two players who didn't have a fucking clue what they were doing: Flash even restarted his character, and got restarted much faster.

The most attractive part of the game for us is that the admins are 'hands off'. If you trust someone with money, a ship, information or whatever, it's up to you to make sure they're trustworthy. Nobody is going to hold your hand, as I can attest after losing eight million ISK worth of cruiser in seconds. On the other hand, Flash regularly runs his unarmed, slow as shit cargo hauler through lowsec space with millions in cargo and has never even been shot at.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-08-21 04:00am

EVE has tempted me but I just don't have the time for persistant, so I'm sticking with X3 at the moment which I can drop in and out of occassionally.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-08-21 04:03am

Stark wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:It's things like this that make me want to play EVE Online.

Unfortunately, it's not a game that gives instant gratification, and I'm just not sure if investing in multiple months is a good idea, what with otherr MMOs on the horizon that I want to play.

*sigh* Perhaps afterwards...
The barrier to entry isn't that significant. I had 'heard' that it didn't reward newbs, that there was nothing for low-end guys to do etc. Flash and I got free trials, and it's all bullshit. The interface is complicated/unwieldy, but it's not hard unless you're an idiot (like many games, general chat is full of people asking questions that are answered in the manual/tutorial). It's perfectly possible to make money doing low-rent mining, NPC 'agent missions', or running cargo.

For instance, after half a dozen hours of play, I had four different ships, was making a million in-game dollars every few hours, and having a great time killing NPCs. Flash, on the other hand, skilled up for big cargo haulers, borrowed a few million off me to get himself started and makes similar or more money. This is with totally starting characters and two players who didn't have a fucking clue what they were doing: Flash even restarted his character, and got restarted much faster.

The most attractive part of the game for us is that the admins are 'hands off'. If you trust someone with money, a ship, information or whatever, it's up to you to make sure they're trustworthy. Nobody is going to hold your hand, as I can attest after losing eight million ISK worth of cruiser in seconds. On the other hand, Flash regularly runs his unarmed, slow as shit cargo hauler through lowsec space with millions in cargo and has never even been shot at.

Oh, I know the rumors of it being newb-hell are exaggerated, but I would want to become a part of a large alliance and do long-term stuff; and like I said, with other MMOs coming out soon that I want to play, I don't want to be plunking down money for multiple ones every month.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-08-21 04:27am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Oh, I know the rumors of it being newb-hell are exaggerated, but I would want to become a part of a large alliance and do long-term stuff; and like I said, with other MMOs coming out soon that I want to play, I don't want to be plunking down money for multiple ones every month.

The only other MMOs that interest me at the moment are Pirates of the Burning Sea and Conan, and Conan will probably suck.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-08-21 05:45am

Pirates of the Burning Sea looks damn cool. But seriously, just give me a Sid Meier's Pirates! multiplayer expansion.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-08-21 09:38am

It's something I'd really like to get into as well, but I'd have preferred it being more hard SF with regards to the actual flying simulation. The pseudo-atmospheric flight model is just annoying when coming from something that is striving to be gritty realism for the most part. It'd be cool if there was no FTL either, so you could spend long time offline traversing to another system, one totally unexplored rather than just another place already teeming with NPCs and other dumb humans. Then you'd have more than just trying to earn a buck by mining or taking pirate contracts and so on. You could openly explore more (within the limits of the engine, which you could build on all the time by adding detail to systems already mapped in real-life).

Though what I do love is when there are big story arc campaigns that are fluid and not entirely scripted. You can't always rely on the others in the universe to make for good entertainment on epic scales.