"When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-20 07:32pm

Did Yoda forget about Jedi Master Qu Rahn?

Wookieepedia wrote:Troubled and confused about how Jedi such as Anakin Skywalker, Jerec, and Ventor could turn to the dark side of the Force, Rahn made the dangerous journey to Dagobah to visit Yoda. Rahn hoped that Yoda's wisdom would help to give clarity to the thoughts that were troubling him. Instead of a reassuring conversation, Yoda merely spoke enigmatically about a planet, on which was located a "valley of Jedi souls". Yoda bestowed upon Rahn the rank of Jedi Master, giving him a gold lightsaber in the process and sending him on his way, but not before teaching Rahn the ability to live on after death as a Force ghost. Although Rahn was baffled by both the new knowledge and the weapon Yoda gave him, Rahn accepted it and vowed "to protect the lightsaber as it would him".

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-08-20 08:50pm

Well, Yoda hadn't seen him since well before Yavin. He may have known he was sending Rahn on a suicide mission. It wasn't long after Yoda's death that Rahn died as well.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-08-20 08:51pm

Galvatron wrote:Did Yoda forget about Jedi Master Qu Rahn?

There's a whole bunch of Jedi survivors plus Leia. It's more apropriate to say that Luke was the last member of the Jedi order, carrying out its legacy.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-20 08:55pm

nightmare wrote:
Galvatron wrote:Did Yoda forget about Jedi Master Qu Rahn?
There's a whole bunch of Jedi survivors plus Leia. It's more apropriate to say that Luke was the last member of the Jedi order, carrying out its legacy.

But Luke wasn't the last member of the Jedi order. Qu Rahn was still alive. That's my point.

Alan Bolte wrote:Well, Yoda hadn't seen him since well before Yavin. He may have known he was sending Rahn on a suicide mission. It wasn't long after Yoda's death that Rahn died as well.

Yoda watched Luke all his life through the Force. Do you really believe that he didn't also know Rahn was still alive?

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2006-08-20 09:00pm

Perhaps Yoda knew that Rahn would die soon? Perhaps the Dark Side was still mucking things up then? Or he just wanted to drive home the point into Luke that he better not fuck up or anything.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-08-20 10:00pm

Luke represented the birth of the New Order. Yoda admitted to himself, after his fight with Palpy, that the Jedi Order had grown stagnate. Luke was the new way and represented a different approach to the Jedi.

So, perhaps what Yoda said, was true; from a certain point of view.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-08-20 10:19pm

Probably he meant the last Jedi, as in, Luke was the last Jedi that the Grand Master of the old Order trained before he passed on. And no, that can't be argued. Luke's with Yoda when he dies.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-08-20 10:39pm

I think it's simpler. Yoda didn't know of any other Jedi besides Obi-Wan that lived through the purges and didn't join the Emperor. Since he never heard from any others, he simply assumed that they were the only ones left, so with their deaths, Luke would be the last Jedi. Even if he went looking for other survivors, it's a big galaxy with lots of places to hide and an entire army looking for them, and flying around looking for them would expose him to the Imperials looking for Jedi, so it was better to hide. If he tried using the Force to seek them out, it would probably require a lot of Force power to do so, which could be like firing a signal flare to the Emperor, plus the Jedi in hiding would make themselves hard to detect.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-20 10:42pm

CDiehl wrote:I think it's simpler. Yoda didn't know of any other Jedi besides Obi-Wan that lived through the purges and didn't join the Emperor. Since he never heard from any others, he simply assumed that they were the only ones left, so with their deaths, Luke would be the last Jedi.

Did you read the quote in my post? Rahn actually visited Yoda on Dagobah after ROTS.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-08-20 10:44pm

Yoda hid himself in the Force from Palpatine and Vader; presumably Rahn did the same, and having not felt the relief of the valley's entombed, presumed he, like most of the survivors, died.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-08-21 12:29am

Anyone else think Yoda may have meant "When gone am I, last of the Jedi should you be? As in The Jedi's time has come and gone and they, like the Sith, should pass away and let normal people rule things?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-21 12:38am

I think we'll have to work with the assumption that Yoda didn't knew that he was alive (how would he have known that anyway?).

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-08-21 12:43am

Galvatron wrote:But Luke wasn't the last member of the Jedi order. Qu Rahn was still alive. That's my point.

nightmare wrote:...carrying out its legacy.

That is mine.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-21 12:50am

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Anyone else think Yoda may have meant "When gone am I, last of the Jedi should you be? As in The Jedi's time has come and gone and they, like the Sith, should pass away and let normal people rule things?

He told Luke to pass on what he'd learned. That, along with the very title of the movie, indicates that Luke was supposed to be the first of a new order.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-08-21 01:21am

Galvatron wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Anyone else think Yoda may have meant "When gone am I, last of the Jedi should you be? As in The Jedi's time has come and gone and they, like the Sith, should pass away and let normal people rule things?
He told Luke to pass on what he'd learned. That, along with the very title of the movie, indicates that Luke was supposed to be the first of a new order.

Point conceded, was just an idle thought

freker · Post by **freker** » 2006-08-21 03:45am

maybe Yoda said it to Luke so that Luke would confront Vader again.
if there were other jedi Luke knew of he would go to them and stall the confrontation or try to make the other jedi fight Vader.
and Yoda knew that Luke was the only one who could succesfully fight Vader, so he had to make sure that Luke would go.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-21 04:04am

Options:

a. Yoda assumed he was dead for some reason.

b. Yoda lied to Luke.

c. Video game makers don't give a fuck or pay attention about what the characters in the movies say.

d. He was dead and Yoda knew it.

e. Yoda was 900 years old and DID forget about him.

I'll take a and c

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-08-21 11:21am

Did you read the quote in my post? Rahn actually visited Yoda on Dagobah after ROTS.

Sadly, no I didn't. First of all, this conflicts with something established in the movies, so under the canon policy, aren't the movies are considered right and any other material considered wrong? Second, if Illuminatus' post is correct, it sounds like Rahn wound up dead, or at least Yoda had no reason to assume otherwise, so he would have no reason to consider him as part of his statement to Luke later.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-08-21 02:06pm

"When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be except possibly for one guy who visited me a few years ago and whose current whereabouts are a complete mystery to me, but who hasn't done jack shit to help lately".

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-21 03:14pm

What bothers me is that the only reason they retconned Rahn's story and made him visit Yoda was to explain how he was able to duplicate Qui-Gon's ability to become a Force-ghost after death.

And that begs another question: how did Anakin do it? He didn't learn it from Yoda before his fall, did he?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-21 03:17pm

CDiehl wrote: Sadly, no I didn't. First of all, this conflicts with something established in the movies, so under the canon policy, aren't the movies are considered right and any other material considered wrong? Second, if Illuminatus' post is correct, it sounds like Rahn wound up dead, or at least Yoda had no reason to assume otherwise, so he would have no reason to consider him as part of his statement to Luke later.

Unfortunately this is not true. If it were most of the EU would be debunked.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-21 03:21pm

Galvatron wrote:What bothers me is that the only reason they retconned Rahn's story and made him visit Yoda was to explain how he was able to duplicate Qui-Gon's ability to become a Force-ghost after death.

And that begs another question: how did Anakin do it? He didn't learn it from Yoda before his fall, did he?

Apparently Yoda and Obi-Wan "pulled" him to their same plane of existance. Or so GL says.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-08-21 03:27pm

Galvatron wrote:What bothers me is that the only reason they retconned Rahn's story and made him visit Yoda was to explain how he was able to duplicate Qui-Gon's ability to become a Force-ghost after death.

And that begs another question: how did Anakin do it? He didn't learn it from Yoda before his fall, did he?

Qui Jon apperently learned it on the fly, sort of speak. Nobody that I'm aware of trained Qui to do it, so that would imply that others could do it intuitively too.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-08-21 03:31pm

Isn't the current theory that Qui-gon learned Force ascension, so to speak, from the Whills? Of course, I think that's a fan theory.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-21 03:39pm

Knife wrote:
Galvatron wrote:What bothers me is that the only reason they retconned Rahn's story and made him visit Yoda was to explain how he was able to duplicate Qui-Gon's ability to become a Force-ghost after death.

And that begs another question: how did Anakin do it? He didn't learn it from Yoda before his fall, did he?
Qui Jon apperently learned it on the fly, sort of speak. Nobody that I'm aware of trained Qui to do it, so that would imply that others could do it intuitively too.

I think he learned it from the Whills. I brought this topic up a while ago hereand got some good responses.

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