"... The Sith will rule the galaxy."

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-21 05:41am

Two lines from ROTS that I've been wondering about. Galvatron reminded me about them with his topic here.

Mace: "The opression of the Sith will never return!"
Palpatine: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy."

So with Mace's line alone I can assume that he is just talking about the Sith causing wars and conquering planets and systems and what not. But after hearing Palpatine's line later, after Mace's death, I take it a diferent way.

Both these lines together seem to suggest that the Sith at one point had actually been the rulers of the galaxy. Not some of the galaxy or part of the galaxy... the galaxy.

Now according to everything I can remember, the Sith never ruled the galaxy, in fact they never even came close. The the best they could do was control of the inner rim and outwards. That sill leaves the Colonies and the all important Core worlds and Deep Core, although at that point there wasn't anything there worth controlling.

I realise that the Sith had at times ruled vast parts of the galaxy, but Palpatine had just achived his final goal of control of the entire galaxy and then basicaly says it happened once before.

Anyways, I guess what I am asking or want to discuss is that if we take Palpatine's words to mean the Sith did indeed rule the entire galaxy, what could be the in universe explanation of when it occured and how and why did it end?

Edit: Changed "tha" to "the" in the thread title.. oops.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-08-21 08:36am

I think this is one part where GL's view of SW history and established EU clash. Lucas probably intended the Sith to have conquered either the whole galaxy or the most significant portions at one time.

If not, it could have been at a time not yet explored in EU, or from a galactic society that didn't cover/hadn't colonized the entire geographical galaxy.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-08-21 08:51am

Well its his own fault for coming up with this retarded apparent "1000-year Republic" which was preceded by a dark time of Sith dominion before they were wiped out and the Republic consolidated - AFTER established the thousand-generation Republic in ANH,

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-08-21 08:58am

There's also a certain subjectivity to it.

At one time, according to the EU, the Sith controlled a large portion of the galaxy, and the only comparable power was the Old Republic. Right before the first Republic/Sith Empire war, the Sith literally thought they ruled the galaxy.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2006-08-21 09:26am

The 1000 year Republic comes from how long the current version had been established, the time since the last Sith war. The 1000 generations would be the amount of time that the Republic in general had been established with Jedi serving (20,000 years give or take).

It is reasonable to assume that at some stage before the Republic was founded that the Sith managed to conquer enough of the galaxy to be judged as rulers of the galaxy, hell since we don't know how much of the galaxy Revan and Malak conquered it might have happened during the reign of the Republic.

The Sith would only need to control more than 50% of the known galaxy to pull it off

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-21 10:13am

There's also this line from the ROTS screenplay (the veranda scene with Obi-Wan and Padmé):

OBI-WAN: No. Padme . . . It's over . . . The Sith now rule the galaxy as they did before the Republic.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-08-21 10:22am

Pretty open and shut. Good stuff Mange.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-08-21 10:46am

The old Republic must've been reduced to largely in name only and lost the Core during the New Sith Wars.

Oh well, the "thousand generations" quote doesn't pertain to the Republic's peace, power, and prosperity but only to the term of the Jedi's stewardship and protection.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2006-08-21 02:06pm

Mange wrote:There's also this line from the ROTS screenplay (the veranda scene with Obi-Wan and Padmé):

OBI-WAN: No. Padme . . . It's over . . . The Sith now rule the galaxy as they did before the Republic.

Odd. In the german version, Obi-Wan says somethign similar, but to me it seemed he was talking about the fact that the Emperor had already controlled the Republic? Maybe a slight mistake in translation?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-21 02:26pm

Lex wrote:
Mange wrote:There's also this line from the ROTS screenplay (the veranda scene with Obi-Wan and Padmé):

OBI-WAN: No. Padme . . . It's over . . . The Sith now rule the galaxy as they did before the Republic.
Odd. In the german version, Obi-Wan says somethign similar, but to me it seemed he was talking about the fact that the Emperor had already controlled the Republic? Maybe a slight mistake in translation?

No, the scene, as it appears in the movie, is shortened. That line from the screenplay doesn't appear in the movie (that scene isn't very well edited IMO as Padmé's line "From the Sith?" doesn't make much sense, but that's off topic).

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-21 03:19pm

Maybe KOTOR3 will cover this.

I always thought it'd be more interesting if the Sith predated the Jedi rather than being an off-shoot sect of dark Jedi. Nice to see canon backs me up.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2006-08-21 10:46pm

Doesn't the Darth Bane book, that the man who wrote most of the plot for KotoR is writing, take place 1000 years BBY? Did the Sith loose control of the galaxy, and thats when Bane decided that the Sith could not survive in large numbers due to infighting?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-08-21 10:52pm

Anarchist Bunny wrote:Doesn't the Darth Bane book, that the man who wrote most of the plot for KotoR is writing, take place 1000 years BBY? Did the Sith loose control of the galaxy, and thats when Bane decided that the Sith could not survive in large numbers due to infighting?

Bane went into hiding and established the Rule of Two after the last Sith war and the Seventh Battle of Ruusan around 1,000 BBY, which almost annihilated the Sith, wiped out a large portion of the most powerful Jedi of the period, and forced a major reform movement in the Republic as a whole (the Ruusan Reformation). However, even at their strongest during the war, the Sith never "controlled" the galaxy. The only point in established history that I can think of which might meet that description was at the height of Revan and Malak's Empire during the War of the Star Forge, three thousand year previously, and even then, the Republic still was a power; the Sith were just winning.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-08-21 10:54pm

Galvatron wrote:Maybe KOTOR3 will cover this.

I always thought it'd be more interesting if the Sith predated the Jedi rather than being an off-shoot sect of dark Jedi. Nice to see canon backs me up.

Jedi are over 25,000 years old. According to the Tales of the Jedi sourcebook, the Sith are over 100,000 years old.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-08-21 11:02pm

The Sith order or the species?

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-08-22 12:44am

Has to be the species... the schism occured relatively early (Within the first thousand years) in the Jedi Order's History

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-08-22 01:47am

There were some on TF.N who were talking about the possibility that the Ancient Sith Empire existed way before the Republic. Something about a Hyperspace exclusive thingy that makes mention about empires predating the Republic. The Rakatan were merely one of the few.

Back then, it did not matter who controlled the Core. More like the most territory.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-08-22 02:26am

Galvatron wrote:Maybe KOTOR3 will cover this.

If KOTOR 3 ever happens. What are the chances of that?

Sun Wukung · Post by **Sun Wukung** » 2006-08-23 12:04am

Galvatron wrote:The Sith order or the species?

The Sith were a race of naturally Force sensitive beings that were the race that mingled with the Dark Jedi who took the name for themselves. The race has been around for a long time, which is what the canon supports. If you include the Hyperspace wars into the big picture, they really did control a great portion of the galaxy for some time.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-08-23 07:07am

No, the Sith were about as commonly Force Sensitive as humans, except when it came to the Dark Jedi-Sith Crossbreed Caste which was where Sith Lords (Both Racially & in beliefs) predominately came from, however, the Sith (Race) have not, as you put it, 'been around for a long time.' By the time Exar Kun rises to power the only Sith left are the ones descended from the Massassi that crewed Naga Sadow's warship, the last Sith is/was a Massassi named Kalgrath who was an experiment of Kun's using Sith Alchemy. Kun sealed him up in the Temple of Fire (Largest of the Massasi Temples), later whilst the Empire was retaliating for the destruction of the Death Star, a TIE Fighter crashed into the temple and released him. Luke and R2 lured Kalgrath onto an supply ship and launched it towards a section of space that used to be controlled by the Sith Empire. So, either the Sith are either truely extinct or functionally so.

By the way, what do you mean by "Naturally Force-Sensitive"? I think what you meant was that ALL Sith were force sensitive (Like Miraluka), but I can't be sure.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-08-23 09:13am

General Schatten wrote:No, the Sith were about as commonly Force Sensitive as humans, except when it came to the Dark Jedi-Sith Crossbreed Caste which was where Sith Lords (Both Racially & in beliefs) predominately came from, however, the Sith (Race) have not, as you put it, 'been around for a long time.' By the time Exar Kun rises to power the only Sith left are the ones descended from the Massassi that crewed Naga Sadow's warship, the last Sith is/was a Massassi named Kalgrath who was an experiment of Kun's using Sith Alchemy. Kun sealed him up in the Temple of Fire (Largest of the Massasi Temples), later whilst the Empire was retaliating for the destruction of the Death Star, a TIE Fighter crashed into the temple and released him. Luke and R2 lured Kalgrath onto an supply ship and launched it towards a section of space that used to be controlled by the Sith Empire. So, either the Sith are either truely extinct or functionally so.

By the way, what do you mean by "Naturally Force-Sensitive"? I think what you meant was that ALL Sith were force sensitive (Like Miraluka), but I can't be sure.

Well, it was mentioned in that Hyperspace article that the SIth fought against the Rakata under King... forgot his name.

The Rakata were naturally force sensitive, though I'm unsure as to when the Sith fought the Rakata before the Rakata lost their Force sensitivity or after.

Would love if someone brought the details of that article.