How to deal with the Newbie problem

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-12-21 05:35pm

You know the drill. A newbie comes in and they haven't read Mike's site. they are instantly called an arse or whatever and told to read the site. They get angry, everyone bitches over something little. (for the latest example read the "Wow, the star destroyer" thread and watch everyone ridicule porkyboy. )This is getting annoying now as we seem to have one a month at the least. Here is a possible solution:

IIRC when someone registers they get a confirmation email. Could that email be changed to include something like "Before active participation on the boards can you have at least a quick skim of the site in general" or "please read the SW vs ST in 5 minutes article before joining debates".

This way if someone hasn't read the site we can actually call them an arse for a good reason.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-21 05:37pm

That's actually not a bad idea.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-21 05:39pm

You know, sometimes idiots need to be treated how they deserve. Piggy is one of them.

And a word of advice, some members don't like having their hands slapped.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-12-21 05:43pm

I'm not slapping anyones hand i'm just saying that i'm tired of Newbies coming in, not reading the site, therefor looking like a total dick and getting flamed like Hell for one quite minor thing. All it takes is a simple "please read this site and if you don't like it suck it down, or take it up with the author and get ass raped in a debate!"

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-21 05:50pm

2000AD wrote:I'm not slapping anyones hand i'm just saying that i'm tired of Newbies coming in, not reading the site, therefor looking like a total dick and getting flamed like Hell for one quite minor thing. All it takes is a simple "please read this site and if you don't like it suck it down, or take it up with the author and get ass raped in a debate!"

The fact that newbies are so often utter morons and are to stupid to look at the site to which a web board is attached is not the fault of regulars. The flames can continue as far as I'm concerned.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-21 05:53pm

I think it a good idea, just to deny them the potential excuse. Some of them, like Sovereign, are clearly beyond possible redemption. Others, I think, could benefit from such a message.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2002-12-21 06:00pm

most newbies get brought into line quickly, the others get tired of looking like idiots and go away. hell look at me, i turned out ok! hell i even have a fanfic brewing

wait 'till you see my proof positve that trekkie newbies can be reformed! bwo-ha-ha-ha-ha!

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-12-21 06:03pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: The fact that newbies are so often utter morons and are to stupid to look at the site to which a web board is attached is not the fault of regulars. The flames can continue as far as I'm concerned.

And how many things are there to link the boards to the site? one: the logo in the top left that so many people have pointed to. As i said on the previous thread noobs may just think it is the title for the boards, i know that i would if i hadn't been aquinted with the site before the boards were set up.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-21 06:06pm

Personally I think its absurd to expect newbies to pour through Mike's website before comming in here. That would take weeks, and thats not very fun for most people. Its better to give the disclaimer that the site contains information and that they should search the site first before debating a particular topic. Even then, the newbiephobia this site seems to have is appalling. Every single one of you useed to be a newbie to this, show a LITTLE kindness. If you are to insulting and blunt with newbies, in all likelyhood you will turn them AWAY from your ideas and create rabid trekkies.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-12-21 06:13pm

Alyeska wrote:Personally I think its absurd to expect newbies to pour through Mike's website before comming in here.

I didn't say read through all of it. I suggested that they have "a quick skim" or read the SW vs ST in 5 minutes article. That is hardly pouring through the site.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-21 06:16pm

Well, Alyeska, my first post here was flaming sithgod.

Actually, I kinda started out here flaming morons like sithgod, John Clarke, and DarkStar...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-21 06:18pm

Alyeska wrote:Personally I think its absurd to expect newbies to pour through Mike's website before comming in here. That would take weeks, and thats not very fun for most people. Its better to give the disclaimer that the site contains information and that they should search the site first before debating a particular topic. Even then, the newbiephobia this site seems to have is appalling. Every single one of you useed to be a newbie to this, show a LITTLE kindness. If you are to insulting and blunt with newbies, in all likelyhood you will turn them AWAY from your ideas and create rabid trekkies.

Okay, so they can't look at the overview of ST vs. SW in Five Minutes section of Mike's page before debating?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-21 06:21pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Personally I think its absurd to expect newbies to pour through Mike's website before comming in here. That would take weeks, and thats not very fun for most people. Its better to give the disclaimer that the site contains information and that they should search the site first before debating a particular topic. Even then, the newbiephobia this site seems to have is appalling. Every single one of you useed to be a newbie to this, show a LITTLE kindness. If you are to insulting and blunt with newbies, in all likelyhood you will turn them AWAY from your ideas and create rabid trekkies.
Okay, so they can't look at the overview of ST vs. SW in Five Minutes section of Mike's page before debating?

The topics and information is just a little to diverse for that.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-21 06:22pm

Also, I really doubt that having a message in the confirmation e-mail would do much to help, as a lot of morons would seriously ignore it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-21 06:26pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Also, I really doubt that having a message in the confirmation e-mail would do much to help, as a lot of morons would seriously ignore it.

A lot? Whens the last time you read through registration stuff when joining a forum? Its just like when people agree to the terms for software. NO ONE reads it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-21 06:27pm

But if they just went over the "Five Minute" page, they would not be nearly so irritating. At leas then they would have some idea of the relative scale of the differences between the two sides. They might have questions, but they would not be as unbelievably ignorant as they are, now.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-21 06:32pm

Master of Ossus wrote:But if they just went over the "Five Minute" page, they would not be nearly so irritating. At leas then they would have some idea of the relative scale of the differences between the two sides. They might have questions, but they would not be as unbelievably ignorant as they are, now.

You could always create a "Newbie" ST vs SW forum and prevent new members from entering the main ST vs SW forum until they get a certain number of posts. That way in the Newbie area they can ask questions or be informed of how things work before they can come in here for the normal debates.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-21 07:07pm

No more forums.

In my opinion, we have enough.

Just make them read the SW vs ST in 5 min. article.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-21 07:50pm

The solution to the problem is simple, don't flame them straight away for not knowing everything.

Either A)Ignore them or B) Help them by presenting them with facts and information, if you can't be bothered to do this refer back to A.

The problem doesn't lie with the newbies not having the knowledge it lies with the established members having no civility.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-21 07:56pm

Alyeska wrote: You could always create a "Newbie" ST vs SW forum and prevent new members from entering the main ST vs SW forum until they get a certain number of posts. That way in the Newbie area they can ask questions or be informed of how things work before they can come in here for the normal debates.

That wouldn't solve anything. They still wouldn't have any idea what was going on when they entered the real forum.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-21 07:58pm

TheDarkling wrote:The solution to the problem is simple, don't flame them straight away for not knowing everything.

Either A)Ignore them or B) Help them by presenting them with facts and information, if you can't be bothered to do this refer back to A.

The problem doesn't lie with the newbies not having the knowledge it lies with the established members having no civility.

I doubt it. Whenever I have been civil with the newbies that clearly don't know anything, they just ignore what I say and go on to become rabid fans of whoever they originally argued for. That's what happened with DarkStar (though, one could argue he was always like that), User099, and several other posters. They know the risks when they come here, and they know or they should that they're supposed to research what they write.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-12-21 08:18pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:The solution to the problem is simple, don't flame them straight away for not knowing everything.

Either A)Ignore them or B) Help them by presenting them with facts and information, if you can't be bothered to do this refer back to A.

The problem doesn't lie with the newbies not having the knowledge it lies with the established members having no civility.
I doubt it. Whenever I have been civil with the newbies that clearly don't know anything, they just ignore what I say and go on to become rabid fans of whoever they originally argued for. That's what happened with DarkStar (though, one could argue he was always like that), User099, and several other posters. They know the risks when they come here, and they know or they should that they're supposed to research what they write.

You have got to be kidding me. EVERY newbie was a rapid idiot? I think not. When you flame newbies, you almost garuntee they side against you. When you inform them politely, they are much more likely to accept your ideas. You can't expect newbies to know what we know, else they wouldn't be newbies. Yes, you might have to go over the same stuff time and time again with countless new people. But that is the price you pay to inform people of the truth, or at least the proper way to go about getting the truth.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-21 08:19pm

Darkstar is an old hand at Vs debates and has always been the way he is (although I wouldn't say he had a lack of knowledge so it isn't really relevant).

You are also misleading yourself you say well the newbies I have been polite to and are still that way are X,Y,Z , what about the other newbies we don't know about because they didnt happen to be the cause of (or at least involved in) a 10 page flame pit.

And while you may have polite to them were others? (I don't believe Spanky has been polite once... ever..... in the histiory of man

and actually takes pride in the fact )

I also looked at User099 first few posts and while he did say something silly (the empire is tobig to take on the Feds faily so increase the size of he feds) it wasn't Stupid in the extreme and yet he was called something akin to the least intelligent creature that was bad up of more than one cell (niot quite that but you get the jist).

Have we really had that many really bad newbies?? that came here that way, most of the ones that come to my mind were actually mod created ons used to stir interest / create anti-trek and anti-newbie feelings (like the former was necessary), seems like it may have worked.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-21 08:44pm

I'd say the bulk of the bad newbies haven't been rabid trekkies: we've had fundamentalist morons like Priesto, the steroid-pumping fitness wanks, and who could forget the Donkey-Rapers? Plus we've got the likes of Bozman/Penile Implant/Master of Bayshun/Whatever Nomme De Post is next... can you really blame anyone for a suspicion that a newbie might well be a former idiot come back to antagonize the forum some more? What the solution is, I don't know: I for one read both the main website and the forum rules before I even joined. The forum rules even have a "Newbies please read" posted on them. I don't know how much more clear you could make it than that.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2002-12-21 09:20pm

It is, to a certain extent, the responsibility of every person in the group, including the newcomers, to have a certain, limited base of knowledge. If you join a WWII board, you better at least know which major countries are in the Axis and who are in the Allies.

Certainly, a trip to the Five minutes section won't hurt them. I'll call that an absolute minimal requirement. If they didn't know the stuff there, they DESERVE to get flamed.

When I first joined ASVS, I didn't realize that standard procedure was to lurk for a while and check out the customs of the group. But I did read Wong's site. That didn't totally bring me up to speed (I doubt any one site could have done that,) but it did give me a basic knowledge base with which to debate and not look like a total ass. That was probably the thing that saved me from being killed outright within a month - that's not to say I didn't pay for my ignorance and had never been flamed once.

I know I had a fun time reading Wong's website. I don't know why you don't, Alyeska. I read most of the site within a week, and spent the other week looking at Hate Mail pages - which probably dimmed my impression of Trekkies a little more than they should have been. Even today, I look at the pages from time to time, just for the fun of it.

Let's look at good old Porkboy. He comes in with idiotic comments. I told him (I think I was relatively gentle with him) to go and get himself a basic education on the subject so he can argue on a more intelligent basis. Instead of realizing he's not making the grade as it is, he told me that he simply couldn't spare the time, and so he continues to make more idiotic comments. With each message he worsens everyone's impressions of him.

Sadly, that's what happens with a lot of newbies. I've seen quite a few of them in ASVS. I think in the year of 2002, we had about TWO decent newbies out of about a dozen. One of the good ones left, and the other one hasn't posted in a while. I think all the bad ones fled.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

How to deal with the Newbie problem

How to deal with the Newbie problem

Not knowing everything and complete ignorance