Religion and Science

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

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Re: hey

Post by Colonel Olrik »

pezcollectorguy wrote:Sorry I left the forum. I'm having internet problems.
I thought you had tried the proposed experiment. Have you managed to defy the gravity religion, yet?
Anyway, To me the term religion denotes a repetitive action.
Look, everybody! The idiot is redefining words! I don't give a fuck about your strawman definition of religion.
As far as me being a moron because I'm accepting of everyones beliefs and logically considering the facts before me...
I believe that I have a fire brething, invisible dragon in my garage. I also believe you're a figment of my imagination. I also think you're a fucking moron.
so be it. On this message board I see folks defending science with a furver that would put most "religious" people to shame. Science is something you believe in.
And something you do not begin to understand, or you wouldn't make such idiotic arguments. Science is about FACTS, you idiot. You are aware of gravity, right? Someone, also aware, made a theory explaining it. Others confirmed and bettered it. Show me this happening in any religion.
It obviously means a lot to you guys.
After taking a college degree in engineering, it's normal. Try it, one day.
That being said I believe it's a religious belief based on the appearance of facts. Often, these facts change and become refined. That makes it a religion of change.

Another therm just invented by our moron: religion of change
Everyone has to have something to believe in. I find this fascinating. Some people have religion and don't even know it! In fact, while they're religiously debasing the idea they're in reality practicing a religion! Ya'll have a nice day...
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Post by Durandal »

See signature below.
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Re: hey

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pezcollectorguy wrote:Sorry I left the forum. I'm having internet problems. Anyway, To me the term religion denotes a repetitive action.
:shock: So eating breakfast every morning is a religion? :roll: Get an education.
As far as me being a moron because I'm accepting of everyones beliefs and logically considering the facts before me... so be it. On this message board I see folks defending science with a furver that would put most "religious" people to shame.
Fervor (learn to spell) and religious belief have nothing to do with each other. One can be passionate about something without having religion and vice versa. There are some religious people who are extremely passionate about their beliefs and others who keep it all to themselves.

You are a moron because you don't even know what the accepted definitions of words are. You can only get a definition thrown out if you can demonstrate that it is wrong. For example, some dictionaries define atheism as immorality. However, many, many atheists are extremly moral people (more so than many religious people) so that definition is clearly wrong. Can you do the same with the accepted definitions of 'faith' and 'science' to get people to accept your new definitions?
Science is something you believe in.
ROTFLMAO. Shouldn't this go in someone's sig? :lol:
As many others have already pointed out, science is based on OBSERVATION, not belief. What part of this don't you understand? Do you 'believe' in gravity that holding your ass in the chair you're sitting in right now? Do you 'believe' in chemistry that makes your life possible? Do you 'believe' in the EM radiation that allows you to read these words?
It obviously means a lot to you guys. That being said I believe it's a religious belief based on the appearance of facts. Often, these facts change and become refined.
The facts do not change. Our understanding of them becomes more refined as we get better measuring devices. But the facts themselves do not change. 2+2=4 is a fact, always has been, always will be whether you like it or not.
That makes it a religion of change.
Earlier you defined religion as "repetitive action" and now you claim "a religion of change" Nice that you just make up difinitions to fit whatever bullshit you happen to be selling at the moment, even if they happen to contradict each other.
Everyone has to have something to believe in. I find this fascinating. Some people have religion and don't even know it! In fact, while they're religiously debasing the idea they're in reality practicing a religion!
Only when you redefine all your terms. IF you redefine science as religion then sure, Mike has religion. :roll: Most people try to have standards a bit more rigorous, self consistant and honest than yours.
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Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

Eating breakfast is a religion now? All bow down to the cereal god!

Anyway, this guy's has ignored all the points against his arguments, and brings up the most bizarre fundie arguments ever, such as "science is a religion".
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Do me a favor pezcollectorguy, grab a big permenant marker and write the phrase "I AM A DUMBSHIT!" on your forehead. That way you can save people the trouble of talking to you before they discover the obvious.


If any admins are reading, can you give this idiot the custom title of "I am a Dumbshit!"?
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ignorance

Post by pezcollectorguy »

I have been accused of being ignorant because my world view is different than most of the folks on this bbs. I am merely expressing my viewpoint that everyone believes in something. This is the main point and it has yet to be attacked. Largly, side issues that I've brought up have been attacked. I have lived and discovered life on my own and this is what I have come up with. Several of you have given seroius responses and those I do appreciate. However, I am astonished with the "adults" on this bbs that resort to swearing and insults... As if anything they say will ever be taken seroiusly with that limited vocabulary. That being said, I do believe that anything that revolves around a persons life constitutes a religion. This phrase has spurred some anger and hard feelings by people who have not put much thought into their lives. It's very interesting how someone who searches for truth in life and comes up with an unpopular theory becomes a "moron" not a "pioneer." In any event, beliefs are a touchy subject and just because someones truth is different than yours does not make it less valid.

Dave
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Are you still here? Go walk yourself off a cliff and see if your precious worldview will save you.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
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Post by Andrew J. »

Junior, will you PLEASE...just SHUT...THE HELL...UP!

Assclown.
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Post by Darth Servo »

Let's review how much stupidity can be crammed into just seven posts.[MST3K mode]
pezcollectorguy wrote:The one thing I have observed about Scientists is that they appear to be very religious people. Each effect has a cause and there's a reason for every action. This mindset is not unlike the Catholic religion in it's legalistic worldview.
Joel Robinson: Catholic Lawyers? Papal law schools? What is the world comming to?
I believe everyone has a religion. Even those who religiously deny God have a belief system focused around non belief.
Tom Servo singing: "I believe I can fly"
I don't understand why christians fear science so
Crow T. Robot: Maybe because you don't understand much.
[Science and Christianity is] basically the same thing.
Servo: Just like computers and throwing spears!
It's all unproven theories. The theories of science and religion as to how the world began for example. They are both very creative stories but there is NO proof. Let's face it, there never will be. We weren't there.
Joel: Except one makes sense and the other reminds me of the movies we've been watching.
Why do people fight over these issues?
Crow: Because Don King is in charge of everything.
Wether it be superman, God, or Science, none of which have anything to do with reality.
Servo: What do you mean superman isn't real?
As for me, what do I believe? I believe everything is suspect and the only reality relies within me. I can't prove anything else.
Joel: And what makes you think anyone actually cares what you believe?
I also believe only religious people will answer this message.
Crow: Your personal beliefs can jump up my butt.
I'm crazy
Servo: Thats the first thing you've said that I can buy.
because I understand the fleeting reality of all situations?
All: all hail the fleeting reality!
No, it is naive folks like you that blindly follow your cult leaders into battles and wars that need the psychological counseling.
Joel: Talk about the blind leading the blind.
As for me, I am a realist.
Servo: Thats why I deny that anything exists.
My outlook on life is both logical and self actualizing.
Joel: Self actualizing? eeew, stop masturbating on your computer.
You're obviously a bitter person of little logical stimuli.
Crow: Eh, you've got enough stimuli already bub.
Everyone believes in something.
Joel as pezcollectorguy: Me, I believe in making a complese ass out of myself.
Wether it's made up or not. That's a reality of life. To some people, sex is their god.
Servo: And with good reason. There's something that should be worshipped.
To other's it's science.
Crow: And to others its lemmings.
Than there's the folks who believe there's some sort of higher being over us all waiting to smush us at a whim.
Joel as pezcollectorguy: They have as much sense as I do.
All I am saying is that everyone of us has a belief system. We call it different things but the feeling is the same. Most of the time it isn't real so people like to inject themselves with the lie once in a while. That's why scientists like to read and christians go to church. It's all about religion. Whatever people practice on a regular basis. It's really quite logical if you think about it.
Crow: Of course since I don't know how to think, I can't actually verify that.
This coming from a person that doesn't understand the fundamental differences between science and religion. There are no differences! That's the point.
Joel: On my head
You have yet to prove me mistaken.
Servo: You have yet to prove you have a brain.
As you may or may not know a Mr. Webster wrote the first dictionart in the english language. He considered himself to be not only christian but "born again" your only sefence comes from a book filled with christian propaganda and a religious slant. That's pretty weak.
Crow: Almost as weak as my argument.
Joel: Or my IQ score.
Servo: Or my bicepts.
Try to use your brain instead of a book you know little about.
Crow: Yeah, look whose talking.
Sorry I left the forum. I'm having internet problems.
Servo: I forgot how to use a computer
Anyway, To me the term religion denotes a repetitive action.
Joel: Ah, waves on the beach are religion. Brilliant!
As far as me being a moron
Sevo: Thats right.
because I'm accepting of everyones beliefs and logically considering the facts before me... so be it. On this message board I see folks defending science with a furver that would put most "religious" people to shame. Science is something you believe in.
Crow: Don't forget sacrifice animals to!
It obviously means a lot to you guys. That being said I believe it's a religious belief based on the appearance of facts. Often, these facts change and become refined. That makes it a religion of change. Everyone has to have something to believe in. I find this fascinating.
Joel: I've got my head so far up my butt, I never realized the inside of my rectum looked so cool.
I have been accused of being ignorant because my world view is different than most of the folks on this bbs. I am merely expressing my viewpoint that everyone believes in something. This is the main point and it has yet to be attacked.
Crow: Of course since the main point has been attacked, and I was just to stupid to know about it, that proves the accusations of stupidity to be absolutely correct.
Largly, side issues that I've brought up have been attacked. I have lived and discovered life on my own and this is what I have come up with.
Joel: He lives by himself. No women want him.
Several of you have given seroius responses and those I do appreciate.
Servo: Thats why I've ignored every single one of them.
However, I am astonished with the "adults" on this bbs that resort to swearing and insults... As if anything they say will ever be taken seroiusly with that limited vocabulary. That being said, I do believe that anything that revolves around a persons life constitutes a religion.
Crow: Like the marbles rolling around inside my head.
This phrase has spurred some anger and hard feelings by people who have not put much thought into their lives.
Servo: Of course any thought is more than this guy has.
It's very interesting how someone who searches for truth in life and comes up with an unpopular theory becomes a "moron" not a "pioneer."
Crow: Maybe thats because said person is in deed a certified moron?
In any event, beliefs are a touchy subject and just because someones truth is different than yours does not make it less valid.
Joel: Don't you just love the tautologies?

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Re: ignorance

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pezcollectorguy wrote:I have been accused of being ignorant because my world view is different than most of the folks on this bbs. I am merely expressing my viewpoint that everyone believes in something. This is the main point and it has yet to be attacked. Largly, side issues that I've brought up have been attacked. I have lived and discovered life on my own and this is what I have come up with. Several of you have given seroius responses and those I do appreciate. However, I am astonished with the "adults" on this bbs that resort to swearing and insults... As if anything they say will ever be taken seroiusly with that limited vocabulary. That being said, I do believe that anything that revolves around a persons life constitutes a religion. This phrase has spurred some anger and hard feelings by people who have not put much thought into their lives. It's very interesting how someone who searches for truth in life and comes up with an unpopular theory becomes a "moron" not a "pioneer." In any event, beliefs are a touchy subject and just because someones truth is different than yours does not make it less valid.

Dave

Yes, quite difeerent. You're obviously a crackhead.
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Post by Dalton »

Moved to SLM though I suspect this'll wind up in the HoS.
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Post by Steve »

Hmm.... The outcome was as I suspected.

You know, having spoken with Dave many times in the past, I found his opinions and views to be quite... refreshing. At the very least, the view of a devil's advocate. Which is always a good thing.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Steve wrote:Hmm.... The outcome was as I suspected.

You know, having spoken with Dave many times in the past, I found his opinions and views to be quite... refreshing. At the very least, the view of a devil's advocate. Which is always a good thing.
You think it's "refreshing" to run into an idiot who thinks that science is no more rational than religion, and completely ignores all points of rebuttals by simply repeating his original idea without modification every time it's challenged?

*Mentally jots down note to lower estimate of Steve's intelligence by 30 IQ points*
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Post by Durandal »

Steve wrote:Hmm.... The outcome was as I suspected.

You know, having spoken with Dave many times in the past, I found his opinions and views to be quite... refreshing. At the very least, the view of a devil's advocate. Which is always a good thing.
Indeed. I'm always quite refreshed whenever I happen to run into a really vocal neo-Nazi ... you know, just from a devil's advocate standpoint.
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Post by lgot »

Code: Select all

I have been accused of being ignorant because my world view is different than most of the folks on this bbs.
Not really, You are called ignorant because you ignore most of the stuff that everyone said here.
I am merely expressing my viewpoint that everyone believes in something.
That is true. Everyone believe in something. No one denied this. But not all sets of beliefs are religion. The belief a lawyer may have in the legal system is not a religion. The belief scietists have in the scientific method is not religion.
That being said, I do believe that anything that revolves around a persons life constitutes a religion.
Your belief is wrong. Religion is not everything. Politic is not religion. Sport is not religion. Art is not religion. You can not just come with a new definition of something (Religion) and try to argument you are correct because your definition justify it. You have no rights or merits to change a definition about a word like religion.
It is even true that a person may treat everything in their life with religious feelings (like a sport fan may do) but that does not turn sport in one religion. There is fevorous, zealous defenders of science that sometimes are as much radical as any religious fanatic. Sure. But he is just one person and he does not define what science is.
It's very interesting how someone who searches for truth in life and comes up with an unpopular theory becomes a "moron" not a "pioneer."
A bit arrogant you. You are not a pioneer, everytime someone trying to make this same conclusion (you believe in the science, i believe in religion, science we both believe, both are religion) come about.
Plus you are wrong, The search for the truth is the subject of both (religion and science) but that is not what made them different. It is the method of how this truth is found that do the different. (All philoophies claim to search for the truth, but not all are the same because all of them have different methods). Think about this before trying to push with this really childish, immature and crude philosophic lines. Take a lot of time for someone to scream Eureka.
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Post by Drewcifer »

Just for grins, has anyone done an IP check on "pezcollectorguy/Dave"?

His posts remind me of patkelly.

At any rate...
pezguy wrote:I have been accused of being ignorant because my world view is different than most of the folks on this bbs
It always amazes me that people think that about this board. There is quite a gathering of different people here: athiests and Christians; right and left; straight and gay, etc. and for the most part, we all get along. No one has called you ignorant for having a different belief system, you are being called ignorant because you clearly do not understand what science and religion are.
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Post by The Apologist »

I do not agree with the entirety of his view, but I think he does have one good idea going. He seems to be saying that all our knowledge and understanding - sciences, religions, philosophies - all our worldviews and beliefs are just beliefs. Though he may incorrectly describe such as "religion," I feel he is fairly accurate in that one belief cannot be said to ultimately be more rational or probably true than any other. Of course, the key word here is "ultimately."
"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

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Post by neoolong »

The Apologist wrote:I do not agree with the entirety of his view, but I think he does have one good idea going. He seems to be saying that all our knowledge and understanding - sciences, religions, philosophies - all our worldviews and beliefs are just beliefs. Though he may incorrectly describe such as "religion," I feel he is fairly accurate in that one belief cannot be said to ultimately be more rational or probably true than any other. Of course, the key word here is "ultimately."
Except it can. I can say that someon can fly without help. Pretty much any other "belief" that says otherwise is ultimately more true than that.

And you are still ignoring what the definition of belief is in these situations.
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Post by SeebianWurm »

It would seem to be his job.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

The Apologist wrote:He seems to be saying that all our knowledge and understanding - sciences, religions, philosophies - all our worldviews and beliefs are just beliefs.
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Post by Drewcifer »

The Apologist wrote:He seems to be saying that all our knowledge and understanding - sciences, religions, philosophies - all our worldviews and beliefs are just beliefs.
You didn't bother to read Durandal's sig, did you?
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In other words, gravity is not a belief system, it is a fact. Science has improved our understand of gravity (and physics), but apple fall from trees the same now as they have for thousands of years. The works of Netwon, Galileo, and Einstein didn't change gravity one iota; their works changed our understanding of it.

If you know any agravitists, let us know how their next sky walk goes :)
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Post by FireNexus »

Drewcifer wrote: In other words, gravity is not a belief system, it is a fact. Science has improved our understand of gravity (and physics), but apple fall from trees the same now as they have for thousands of years. The works of Netwon, Galileo, and Einstein didn't change gravity one iota; their works changed our understanding of it.
That's billions (well, millions if you count from the time an apple tree evolved). Fundy...:twisted:
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Post by The Apologist »

As I expected, my post completely went over everyone's heads...
Except it can. I can say that someon can fly without help. Pretty much any other "belief" that says otherwise is ultimately more true than that.
Yes, this is why I took care and said, "Of course, the key word here is 'ultimately.'" Rationality judgments can be made when based upon other beliefs. In your example, it would be irrational to say that one can naturally fly if, and only if, we presuppose other beliefs, such as "humans do not exhibit adequate physiology to sustain themselves in flight." If we do not make any assumptions, if we consider in the ultimate sense the proposition being advanced, we cannot make rationality judgments, for there are no other propositions for comparison. The same applies for gravity. And perhaps what pezcollectorguy is saying is that he finds no reason to withhold a complete reexamination of axioms and their corollaries, perhaps even the system thereof itself.

In other words, he is telling us to question our beliefs, it seems.

...And I found your reactions appropriate and predictable. Fundies.
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Post by neoolong »

The Apologist wrote:As I expected, my post completely went over everyone's heads...
Except it can. I can say that someon can fly without help. Pretty much any other "belief" that says otherwise is ultimately more true than that.
Yes, this is why I took care and said, "Of course, the key word here is 'ultimately.'"
Me too. Ultimately, the other statements are more true.
Rationality judgments can be made when based upon other beliefs. In your example, it would be irrational to say that one can naturally fly if, and only if, we presuppose other beliefs, such as "humans do not exhibit adequate physiology to sustain themselves in flight."
Except what you said is that no statement can ultimately be more rational than any other. Therefore that doesn't work dumbass.
If we do not make any assumptions, if we consider in the ultimate sense the proposition being advanced, we cannot make rationality judgments, for there are no other propositions for comparison.
Except before you said you can't. Which is it?
The same applies for gravity. And perhaps what pezcollectorguy is saying is that he finds no reason to withhold a complete reexamination of axioms and their corollaries, perhaps even the system thereof itself.

In other words, he is telling us to question our beliefs, it seems.
And you ignore what a belief is. Again.
...And I found your reactions appropriate and predictable. Fundies.
There is a difference between being right and sticking to that and being and idiot and sticking to it despite evidence to the contrary. You fall in the second group.
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Post by Drewcifer »

FireNexus wrote:
Drewcifer wrote:...but apple fall from trees the same now as they have for thousands of years...
That's billions (well, millions if you count from the time an apple tree evolved). Fundy...:twisted:
Fundy? Don't be silly.

I agree, however, that "thousands of years" was a poorly chosen turn of phrase. Flowering plants (angiosperms) have only become the dominant form of plant life in the last 65 million years. As well, seed bearing plants (gymnosperms) did not appear until the late Devonian/early Mississippian periods, roughly 350-400 million years ago.
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