"Free" Energy after all?

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rhoenix
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"Free" Energy after all?

Post by rhoenix »

I saw this link on Slashdot today. If this has been posted before - my apologies, I didn't see another thread about it.
News article wrote:DUBLIN (AFP) - An Irish company has thrown down the gauntlet to the worldwide scientific community to test a technology it has developed that it claims produces free energy.

The company, Steorn, says its discovery is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy -- a concept that challenges one of the basic rules of physics.

It claims the technology can be used to supply energy for virtually all devices, from mobile phones to cars.

Steorn issued its challenge through an advertisement in the Economist magazine this week quoting Ireland's Nobel prize-winning author George Bernard Shaw who said that "all great truths begin as blasphemies".

Sean McCarthy, Steorn's chief executive officer, said they had issued the challenge for 12 physicists to rigorously test the technology so it can be developed.

"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

"The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet. It's literally created. Once the technology operates it provides a constant stream of clean energy," he told Ireland's RTE radio.

McCarthy said Steorn had not set out to develop the technology, but "it actually fell out of another project we were working on".

One of the basic principles of physics is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form.

McCarthy said a big obstacle to overcome was the disbelief that what they had developed was even possible.

"For the first six months that we looked at it we literally didn't believe it ourselves. Over the last three years it had been rigorously tested in our own laboratories, in independent laboratories and so on," he said.

"But we have been unable to get significant scientific interest in it. We have had scientists come in, test it and, off the record, they are quite happy to admit that it works.

"But for us to be able to commercialise this and put this into peoples' lives we need credible, academic validation in the public domain and hence the challenge," McCarthy said.
Interesting enough. So, given inherent curiosity, I checked out the company's website, and the information located therein.

From Steorn's Technology page:
Page regarding energy technology wrote:In 2003 Steorn undertook a project to develop more efficient micro generators. Early into this project the company developed certain generator configurations that appeared to be over 100% efficient. Further investigation and development has led to the company’s current technology, a technology that produces free energy. The technology is patent pending.

Our Technology and the Laws of Physics

Steorn’s technology produces free, clean and constant energy. This provides a significant range of benefits, from the convenience of never having to refuel your car or recharge your mobile phone, to a genuine solution to the need for zero emission energy production. It also provides a secure supply of energy, since the components of the technology are readily available.

The technology is in a constant state of development. The company has focused for the past three years on increasing power output and the development of test systems that allow detailed analysis to be performed.

Steorn’s technology appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy’, considered by many to be the most fundamental principle in our current understanding of the universe. This principle is stated simply as ‘energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form’.

Steorn is making three claims for its technology:

1. The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.
2. The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts.
3. There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).

The sum of these claims is that our technology creates free energy.

This represents a significant challenge to our current understanding of the universe and clearly such claims require independent validation from credible third parties. During 2005 Steorn embarked on a process of independent validation and approached a wide selection of academic institutions. The vast majority of these institutions refused to even look at the technology, however several did. Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.

In early 2006 Steorn decided to seek validation from the scientific community in a more public forum, and as a result have published the challenge in The Economist. The company is seeking a jury of twelve qualified experimental physicists to define the tests required, the test centres to be used, monitor the analysis and then publish the results.

Steorn has decided to publish its challenge in The Economist because of the breadth of its readership. "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because we want to make the general public aware that this process is about to commence and to generate public support, awareness, interest etc for what we are doing."
Very interesting stuff. I'm fully aware that energy cannot be actually created, but that does raise the question of where this energy is coming from.
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Post by rhoenix »

Call this a ghetto edit: I forgot to include the company's Challenge page text.
Steorn Challenge page wrote:The process of testing Steorn's technology shall consist of three test phases. The process shall commence with the scientific jury appointing its own chairman. Steorn shall then provide an in-depth explanation of the operation of its technology and shall present the tests and test data conducted on the technology to date.

Steorn will cover all direct costs relating to the validation process.
Phase I

Confirm that the Steorn technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.
Phase II

Confirm that the operation of the Steorn technology does not affect the component parts of the technology.
Phase III

Carry out a full thermodynamic analysis of the technology.

What Happens After Validation?

The jury’s analysis will be published on the company's website where everyone can register to receive the results.

The Company will then be seeking to license its technology into a variety of markets including the consumer electronics and automotive sectors. The company will also be releasing several products that it is developing itself.
The page linke above also has a registration page for engineers & scientists to examine their results.
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Post by Dooey Jo »

As usual it would be great if it was true, but it probably is not. Strange that they don't say anything at all on how the thing looks or works, only what it supposedly can do.
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Re: "Free" Energy after all?

Post by Feil »

"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

"The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet. It's literally created. Once the technology operates it provides a constant stream of clean energy," he told Ireland's RTE radio.

Gee. They've discovered electromagnetic induction.

Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

Induction converts mechanical energy into electrical energy, which can then be used to power all kinds of fun stuff, like the computer some bored college students used to create this eleborate joke.

It doesn't get energy from "the energy within the magnet" because there isn't any such thing.
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Re: "Free" Energy after all?

Post by Ender »

Feil wrote:
"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

"The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet. It's literally created. Once the technology operates it provides a constant stream of clean energy," he told Ireland's RTE radio.

Gee. They've discovered electromagnetic induction.

Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

Induction converts mechanical energy into electrical energy, which can then be used to power all kinds of fun stuff, like the computer some bored college students used to create this eleborate joke.

It doesn't get energy from "the energy within the magnet" because there isn't any such thing.
Given that the company is going to lose a fair chunk of change on the advertisement of this, the testing of this, and that they claim to have had their own engineers puzzled by this I highly doubt that this is just something that commonplace that they are spinning to get a media blitz. I doubt they found anything new, but a new way to do an old trick on a different scale might have happened here.
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Post by Beowulf »

They've probably fucked up measuring AC power (which is really common). It's pretty easy to test whethere it's actually getting power from nowhere. Use electric motor to power the generator. Start the motor/generator shaft set spinning. If it stops in a reasonable amount of time (reasonable depending on rotational inertia and friction), then it ain't putting out more power than it consumes. In fact, the motor shaft should go faster, with more power being applied to it than it's outputing.
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

Has anyone offered to take their challenge? I'd imagine a company claiming that they've found a way to break the Laws of Thermodynamics would catch the eye of a few physicists.
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Post by Darth Wong »

If this works, why isn't the company already finding ways to develop technologies using it, instead of playing these publicity games? Is this really the only corporation in the world that's more interested in academic respectability than profit?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Darth Wong wrote:If this works, why isn't the company already finding ways to develop technologies using it, instead of playing these publicity games? Is this really the only corporation in the world that's more interested in academic respectability than profit?
I dunno, but that would be awesome if it were the only company.
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Post by SpacedTeddyBear »

Until they provide a valid explaination ( in either words, diagrams, or both) as to how they are able to "create" free energy, I will assert that the machete I keep in my bedroom is what keeps the planet in orbit around the sun.
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Post by LaCroix »

Well it seems that thousands of "scientists" have actually reviewed the data, according to their page.

I find it a very reasonable appoach to find as many reviewers as possible to prove that stuff it it really violates the 1. LoTD.

ANd of course, you won't give the data away since there is a lots of money in it , if it proves right...

Actually, some people around here have academic grades, so they xould register and recieve the white pages...
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Post by Thinkmarble »

Guardsman Bass wrote:Has anyone offered to take their challenge? I'd imagine a company claiming that they've found a way to break the Laws of Thermodynamics would catch the eye of a few physicists.
Actually, no it would not. These kinds of claims are a dime a dozen, and are pretty much always based upon fraud, self delusion and/or ignorance.
Now it just might be the case that this company is honest and shit but I am not inclined to belive that, especially not since they follow the standart script.
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Post by Talanth »

I sounds almost like induction using the earths magnetic field. Walk around and, hey, your watch battery is charged! If it's that method I wonder what the rate of charge would be for an average day?
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Post by Darth Wong »

I wonder who takes this kind of thing seriously. As Carl Sagan once said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This public relations stunt (which is performed in lieu of either a working commercial prototype or a scientific research paper submitted to peer-reviewed journals) hardly qualifies, but then again, we are talking about Yahoo news here.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Joseph Newman's been flogging the same sort of "free energy" scheme for years with his so-called invention and it amounts to the same thing. Pile of bullshit.
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Post by Wyrm »

Is Joseph Newman the "Gyro Power" guy featured in Discover about ten years ago? It sounds like him. Nothing ever came of "Gyro Power," and James Randi called him on his shit, pointing out that if it was really perpetual motion --or "free energy" as Joe insists on calling it-- then following Beowulf's suggestion should turn it into an ever-running machine. Joe refuses to do it.

I have strong doubts that energy being generated out of nothing is what's actually happening, even if there is more energy coming out than going in. (In this case, I would say that something within the motor is changing.) The conservation of energy is related to a deep symmetry in physics, namely the time symmetry: physics works the same way today as it did yesterday.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Am I the only one who is baffled by the sheer ignorance of these companies or organisations when it comes to basic physics? This must be the dozenth claim about free energy from magnetic induction, just like that company claiming to have made fans that run indefinitely.

This is no more useful than those claiming to have proven they've cloned the first human or finally discovered who shot JFK. It's just publicity which should be laughed at until something extraordinary is shown to all.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Patrick Degan wrote:Joseph Newman's been flogging the same sort of "free energy" scheme for years with his so-called invention and it amounts to the same thing. Pile of bullshit.
It's the same crap posted in this thread, is it not?
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Bingo.
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Post by Molyneux »

This may be slightly off-topic, but it does relate to "free energy", and it's something that's been in my mind since I first read it in "21st Century Fox" several years ago...

If we ever do get around to building a Hellevator, or any other type of insanely tall tower (or strand hanging from orbit)...if it is composed of conductive materials, would its passage through the solar wind cause it to build up an electrical potential?

As it was put in the comic (where it was a 300 km. tall, satellite-launching railgun built of 'doped buckytubes', whatever those are) - "...as a superconductor, moving through the solar wind, it'll have an electrical potential. A generator so powerful, it'll make the biggest powerplant on Earth look like a couple of dim watch batteries."


I don't even have the beginnings of the kind of technical knowledge to see if that's pie-in-the-sky or if it might be feasible...
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Molyneux wrote:This may be slightly off-topic, but it does relate to "free energy", and it's something that's been in my mind since I first read it in "21st Century Fox" several years ago...

If we ever do get around to building a Hellevator, or any other type of insanely tall tower (or strand hanging from orbit)...if it is composed of conductive materials, would its passage through the solar wind cause it to build up an electrical potential?

As it was put in the comic (where it was a 300 km. tall, satellite-launching railgun built of 'doped buckytubes', whatever those are) - "...as a superconductor, moving through the solar wind, it'll have an electrical potential. A generator so powerful, it'll make the biggest powerplant on Earth look like a couple of dim watch batteries."


I don't even have the beginnings of the kind of technical knowledge to see if that's pie-in-the-sky or if it might be feasible...
Yes, such a system would produce charge via cutting either the Earth's magnetic field or being heated to acquire thermal energy. This idea was proposed for certain satellites to help ween them off using solar cells that can be rather large and unwieldy, not to mention vulnerable.
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Post by Wyrm »

Yep, Joe Newman is the "Gyro Power" guy. It was in the May 1987 issue of Discover, almost twenty years ago. And he still can't make it work. If he really had the ability claimed, then he'd be able to start a battery-charging business (as he wouldn't have to pay electrical cost) as seed money for his research. What an asshat.
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Post by Shadowhawk »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Molyneux wrote:This may be slightly off-topic, but it does relate to "free energy", and it's something that's been in my mind since I first read it in "21st Century Fox" several years ago...

If we ever do get around to building a Hellevator, or any other type of insanely tall tower (or strand hanging from orbit)...if it is composed of conductive materials, would its passage through the solar wind cause it to build up an electrical potential?

As it was put in the comic (where it was a 300 km. tall, satellite-launching railgun built of 'doped buckytubes', whatever those are) - "...as a superconductor, moving through the solar wind, it'll have an electrical potential. A generator so powerful, it'll make the biggest powerplant on Earth look like a couple of dim watch batteries."


I don't even have the beginnings of the kind of technical knowledge to see if that's pie-in-the-sky or if it might be feasible...
Yes, such a system would produce charge via cutting either the Earth's magnetic field or being heated to acquire thermal energy. This idea was proposed for certain satellites to help ween them off using solar cells that can be rather large and unwieldy, not to mention vulnerable.
In fact, when this theory was actually tested aboard the Shuttle, there was so much current it melted the tether (thanks at least partly to an unexpected flaw in the manufacturing process).
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

So why can't we send up satellites that do that, then beam down the energy to a receiver on earth?
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Post by RedImperator »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:So why can't we send up satellites that do that, then beam down the energy to a receiver on earth?
Because it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to build and launch a satellite, the amount of usable energy actually produced by any given satellite would be a pittance, and if I'm understanding this correctly, the satellite would have to be in low orbit, meaning whatever it's using to beam the energy down would have to rapidly track to keep the beam on the reciver.
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