The HD/Blu-Ray DVD Format War: What's New?

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2006-08-26 05:14pm

Now that both formats are on the store shelves in many areas. (In NJ they are selling both formats at my local Best Buy) How are each faring?? Are there any signs that either or both formats are failing?? (Like UMD and the SACD/DVD-audio format war)

I know that for now that I don't plan on investing in either format anytime soon. Part of me is hoping that both fail unless something big happens soon. (namely popularizing a drive that plays both formats)

Second problem is that most HD/Blu-Ray DVDs out there contain no special features. As a person who loves movie releases w/ special features this is going to be a big issue for getting people like me to convert. But that isn't going to be likely anytime soon, since there is still a lack of faith in fully investing since there is a format war in progress.

I recently read a side by side comparison in Popular Science: It compared a Standard DVD that upscaled picture quality vs an HD DVD. It stated overall that a side by side comparison showed that an HD DVD was only maginally better than DVD upscaling. That combined with the bulkyness of the drive showed to me that an HD-DVD drive isn't really worth the investment, yet.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-26 05:26pm

What's new is that HD-DVD is totally going to be kicking Blu-Ray's ass once things get completely off the ground, though that still might not be enough for people to actually care about "upgrading" to either format:

The Digital Bits wrote: Finally, here's that bit of great HD-DVD news... Toshiba has officially released version 2.0 of their firmware for the HD-A1 and HD-XA1 HD-DVD players. It's available now via Ethernet download (just follow your player's instructions, as listed in the manual). According to Toshiba: "This firmware update adds support for certain anticipated network delivered content in future HD DVD discs, improves certain video and audio processing capabilities, as well as addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related problems identified by Toshiba." So what exactly does that mean? Check THIS out: "Support for Dolby True HD is extended from two channels to 5.1, which will be available in full resolution on the HDMI and analog 5.1 outputs and down-mixed to a DTS bit stream on the SPDIF output." FULL 5.1 TrueHD support! Keep in mind, the player was shipped with 2.0 support only. A lot of people are already talking about the new firmware over at AVS Forum, and it sounds as if it's pretty great. Guess I know what I'll be doing tonight! You can find official details about the firmware update here at Toshiba's HD-DVD website. Click on "Support," then "Firmware Update V2.0" to read more specifics. Thanks to Bits reader Michael G. for the heads-up.

That's a very cool development, I'll tell you. I'm somewhat surprised to find myself saying this, but HD-DVD is quietly making Blu-ray Disc look pretty silly. Motivated as I've been by a desire to see this format war end quickly, I was quick to sing the potential praises of Blu-ray Disc early on, simply because it seemed to have the clear advantages of better technology and much broader studio support, plus the potential market-share dominance of the forthcoming PS3 game system. And to be honest, my very early experiences with HD-DVD were disappointing. Since that time, however, an interesting this has happened... the early Blu-ray experience has turned out to be pretty lackluster too. Discs have looked bad, the Samsung player is a disaster and Sony's over-priced the PS3 right out of the market (you'll be able to buy both an Xbox 360 AND a Nintendo Wii for the price of a PS3). Sony and their BD camp allies are just not delivering on the promise of their format - period. Meanwhile, HD-DVD software and Toshiba's hardware (via these firmware updates) just keeps getting better and better. And get this: Sony STILL can't get their 50GB dual-layered Blu-ray Discs to work right on the existing and prototype players. The current Samsung player, as shipped, will not play them. How do you like them apples? Ouch.

If the BD camp doesn't do something dramatic and fast... they will have lost the hearts and minds of the early adopters to HD-DVD. To my thinking at least, HD-DVD is looking better and better all the time... and it seems to me it's now the format to beat.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-08-27 03:09am

As of now, HD-DVDs have more capacity than the Blu-ray as there aren't any two layer Blu-Ray titles available yet and no player that can play them. That's quite interesting. (No HD-DVD nor Blu-ray player have been released here in Sweden yet.)

EDIT: I missed that it was mentioned in the article above.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-08-27 12:01pm

I've said this before, but these companies are trying to do in a span of months what DVD took years to achieve under vastly more favorable conditions and with no format war. It's a joke. DVD came out almost 20 years after VHS, so the differences were huge, but technology hasn't progressed far enough over DVD for most people to care about the difference. I think this will end up like Laserdisc. Not completely marginal, but only bought by certain people (the "gotta have it" demographic).

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2006-08-27 12:51pm

Hey, my dad bought laserdisks! We still have the player sitting on top of a cabinet! We used to rent LaserDisk moves too!

And yes, HD-DVD and blu-ray aren't that much greater than normal DVD to merit my attention.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-08-27 01:06pm

I'm not planning on purchasing either until one format wins out over the other or until the current format becomes extinct. Especially since the prices will ultimately drop as they have in the past and i'll actually be able to afford whichever one wins out.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2006-08-27 02:36pm

Give me a ring when they can fit an entire series on a single disc - the format that does that instead of trying to one-up the competition with higher resolutions that are progressively harder and harder to discern will get my money.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-08-27 06:56pm

Even if they can fit a season or a series on a disc, they won't. More discs = a perception of more value for money among the ignorant public.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-08-28 12:14am

In having this retarded format war, Sony and the HD-DVD camp are just pushing optical media one step closer to extinction. What's needed to save optical media from being displaced 5 years down the road by a combination of uberfast internet connections and ubermassive hard disks is a single, open, non-proprietary format offering ubercapacity and none of the worthless DRM uberdeadwood that plague both HD-DVD and Bluray.

Did I use "uber" enough in that paragraph?

That said, the one positive benefit of this format war is seeing the amusing consequences of Sony's unbridled arrogance. If Sony doesn't loose this "We're too sexy" attitude quickly, they could well earn the dubious distinction of being the first major Japanese conglomerate to go under.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-08-28 12:21am

Sony engaging in a stupid format war? Did they learn nothing from Betamax?

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2006-08-28 12:40am

LordShaithis wrote:Sony engaging in a stupid format war? Did they learn nothing from Betamax?

Nope.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-08-28 01:22am

RThurmont wrote:In having this retarded format war, Sony and the HD-DVD camp are just pushing optical media one step closer to extinction. What's needed to save optical media from being displaced 5 years down the road by a combination of uberfast internet connections and ubermassive hard disks is a single, open, non-proprietary format offering ubercapacity and none of the worthless DRM uberdeadwood that plague both HD-DVD and Bluray.

Did I use "uber" enough in that paragraph?

I don't think they're going to completely abandon optical media in the next fifteen years; there are simply too many people in the United States who live too far away from civilization to get broadband internet connections, or who simply don't have one. (No, satellite does not count.) I doubt that the industry would be willing to just throw away that market altogether.

I'm also not sure how well it'd work to expect people to take their hard drive with them on a road trip and plug it into the family minivan. Plus, there'd be a lot of consumer hostility once those hard drives start to fail (and there will be failures) and whoops, there goes the family video collection! Guess you'll have to spend another thousand dollars to re-buy it all. Yeah, there's saner ways of doing it, but even so, A) you know someone in Hollywood's going to push for that model, whether or not they go for it is anyone's guess, and B) even if there was a way where you "purchased" it and you could re-download it in the event of a failure, there'd still be hostility towards having to re-download it all... which would still take a significant amount of time even on a high-speed internet connection.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-08-28 01:45am

I said displace, not completely abandon. Heck, tape drives are still in use for data storage at the enterprise level, and many consumers (myself included), still have-and use-VHS players (some even using them as their primary home entertainment system).

In 5 years time, unless the world ends, optical disks will still be around, but they will likely have been replaced as the premiere means of storing and distributing video content by the next generation FTTP networks and home entertainment servers. As a means of distributing software, the optical disk is already becoming passe, with an increasing chunk of business application sales being conducted over the internet. In the past year, I've bought 50% of my mission-critical applications as downloads.

Of course, where optical media comes in, and why it remains useful, can be summarized in one word: backups.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-08-28 01:53am

Perhaps someone would care to explain to my why I would want to replace my personal DVD collection, at this point worth thousands of dollars with a whole new format for a marginal improvement in quality. DVD swept VHS off the market because it was a major improvement in VHS in every way, right down to the amount of space it takes up on the shelf. I don't see any such killer advantage for either new format.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-08-28 02:16am

RThurmont wrote:I said displace, not completely abandon.

RThurmont wrote:In having this retarded format war, Sony and the HD-DVD camp are just pushing optical media one step closer to extinction.

sorry, I read that and missed the "displace" bit later.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-08-28 02:19am

RedImperator wrote:Perhaps someone would care to explain to my why I would want to replace my personal DVD collection, at this point worth thousands of dollars with a whole new format for a marginal improvement in quality. DVD swept VHS off the market because it was a major improvement in VHS in every way, right down to the amount of space it takes up on the shelf. I don't see any such killer advantage for either new format.

I think high-def television looks quite a bit nicer than DVD. neoBSG looks really nice in high definition. I wouldn't want to shell out a couple thousand dollars for an all-new library, but if I had a high-def set, I wouldn't mind grabbing a high-def player once prices and format wars settled down a bit and starting to make new purchases high-def purchases.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-08-28 02:20am

Optical media, if this format war keeps up, could be extinct by 2020. Easily. However, in the near term, I'm talking displacement. One thing leads to another however, as the audio casette experience should teach us.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-08-28 02:38am

I really doubt optical media will be extinct for a long, long time. When you consider the amount of people that simply can't get high speed internet where they live, and the fact that customers like having something physical in their hand, and the fact that retailers will push strongly for an optical format (meaning anyone who produces one will get guaranteed support)...

By 2020 we'll probably be using multi-terabyte HVD's.

There will always be a place for portable players and in-car players and people with multiple TVs in multiple rooms...not everyone has a networked house.

JointStrikeFighter · Post by **JointStrikeFighter** » 2006-08-28 05:02am

Even if they can fit a season or a series on a disc, they won't. More discs = a perception of more value for money among the ignorant public.

Putting a series on multiple discs is still a sensible move becuase if the dic gets damaged you dont lose the entire series that way.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-08-28 05:34am

JointStrikeFighter wrote:
Even if they can fit a season or a series on a disc, they won't. More discs = a perception of more value for money among the ignorant public.
Putting a series on multiple discs is still a sensible move becuase if the dic gets damaged you dont lose the entire series that way.

Completely incorrect logic. You want people to have to replace a whole series not just a disc if you are the supplier/retailer.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2006-08-28 06:49am

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Even if they can fit a season or a series on a disc, they won't. More discs = a perception of more value for money among the ignorant public.

More discs = more annoying switching. What fuckholes can be so stupid as to prefer more discs?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-28 08:23am

I could only see disc-changing to be an issue if you were doing something like watching half a season in a day, but who seriously sits and watches a entire stretches of a show on DVD for twelve hours at a time?

Having a season spread across multiple discs is frankly just much more reasonable for factors already mentioned.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2006-08-28 09:22am

The companies

BLUE_RAY
Samsung
Pioneer
Panasonic
Sony
LG
Sharp
Phillips
Thomson

HD-DVD
Toshiba
NEC
Sanyo
Thomson

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-08-28 12:39pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Even if they can fit a season or a series on a disc, they won't. More discs = a perception of more value for money among the ignorant public.
More discs = more annoying switching. What fuckholes can be so stupid as to prefer more discs?

I've actually been told by someone that more disks makse him feel like he's getting more content (in particular we were discussing final fantasy PS1 games).