Do Jedi Starfighters lack shields?

[Kurgan]

Okay maybe this was covered already, but I was curious.

Now I'm sure that this is answered in a few of the video games, but since game mechanics are what they are, I ask.


Basically I'm wondering why (if they had shields) the starfighters piloted by Anakin and Obi-Wan in Episode III don't seem to have them (ie: why are Buzz Droids able to land and walk about freely on the surface of their craft without any kind of ill effects, and why no shield flash when Anakin shoots Obi-Wan or crashes into him, etc.)

Were shields just not given to fighters until the Imperial era?

(I realize that Anakin's Naboo starfighter in Episode I appears to have some kind of magnetic sealing field that shimmers when powered up and makes droid infantry blaster shots bounce off the polished surface, but that's about all I can think of otherwise).

Or is there a good reason for their shields to have been off during this particular fight? I haven't read any of the other prequel novels, if it was explained there, and I read the ROTS novelisation last year (don't own a copy).

Thanks in advance!

[OmegaGuy]

Well the wookieepedia article doesn't mention shields.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The RotS ICS states that the Jedi starfighters from that film didn't have heavy instrumentation, sensors, or shields because of the fact that they were piloted by Jedi.

And that "some kind of magnetic sealing field that shimmers when powered up" for Anakin's Naboo fighter from TPM WAS the fighter's shields.

Did you suddenly become even more dense during your last extended absence or something?

[VT-16]

The Delta-7 interceptor had shields, with the generator being in the back, behind the cockpit. The Eta-2 interceptor didn't.

[Kurgan]

Did you suddenly become even more dense during your last extended absence or something?

I see your sarcasm supply hasn't run out, but I wonder if you were saving it for me all this time, or you're this snippy with everyone now...

The RotS ICS states that the Jedi starfighters from that film didn't have heavy instrumentation, sensors, or shields because of the fact that they were piloted by Jedi.

Do they (the ship designers, the military board?) assume then that Jedi are so good they'll never be hit, or that they'll use the Force to push shots out of the way? Or are the Jedi just that arrogant in their feeling of invincibility? (like how they refuse to wear space suits, body armor or even simple helmets, even after three years of proving they are quite mortal in the Clone Wars) Lunatics!

[glass]

The RotS ICS states that the Jedi starfighters from that film didn't have heavy instrumentation, sensors, or shields because of the fact that they were piloted by Jedi.

I can see that Jedi, with their enhanced senses, wouldn't need much in the way of sensor equipment, targetting computers, etc. But why would being a Jedi be a reason to not have shields?

They might be badass, but they aren't going to survive their ship being destroyed. OK, they can dodge, but I'd think shielding would be more usefull if you are subject to a lot of near misses/glancing blows rether than less.


glass.

[VT-16]

Since non-Jedi also use the Eta-2, this "they don't need it because they're Jedi" excuse is worthless. I reckon it's because the ships are the TIE fighters of the CW, so they are meant to operate similarly and have similar cut-backs because of this.

[Mad]

Do they (the ship designers, the military board?) assume then that Jedi are so good they'll never be hit, or that they'll use the Force to push shots out of the way? Or are the Jedi just that arrogant in their feeling of invincibility? (like how they refuse to wear space suits, body armor or even simple helmets, even after three years of proving they are quite mortal in the Clone Wars) Lunatics!

Well, the RotS novelization states that Anakin never felt he was in any particular danger during the battle above Coruscant.

Though that's just Anakin. Obi-Wan certainly didn't feel as secure as Anakin did.

Still, a Jedi in a faster fighter can avoid getting hit more easily than a Jedi in a slower but shielded fighter. And we saw how useful shields were in ANH. A concentrated volley could more easily hit (and take out) a slower shielded fighter than a faster, unshielded fighter.

Experienced TIE fighter pilots did fine without shields. (If they survived long enough to be experienced.)

[Kurgan]

Btw, Spankster, I blew the dust off my TPM DVD and checked, lil' Annie does indeed say "shields up!" in that scene, so nevermind, I forgot.

This begs the question then of why these supposedly peaceful Nubians put shields on their stunt/police fighters, whilst the Grand Army of the Republic or the Empire can't "afford" (?) to put them on their's... (and the supposedly ill equipped Rebels can? and if the Empire just doesn't care about losing their troops, well they darn well ought to! Replacing a clone would be far more expensive than replacing some recruit!)

If the "Jedi Starfighters" are only for Jedi, you'd think they could afford to trick them out stupendously, since there are so few Jedi to use them in the end, unless they really are suicidally arrogant.

Or are fighter shields more like a safety blanket for less confident pilots than something that's actually useful?


And what would happen if a Buzz droid landed on a shielded craft? Even if shields don't make a fighter invulnerable (I never assumed they would), you'd think it would do something to prevent this tactic from being effective, right?

[Feil]

The purpose of a shield seems to be to give a pilot enough time to bail out of his starfighter after it gets blasted, and possibly to make some glancing hits actually glance, rather than just killing you. If you get hit squarely by any weapon designed to kill starfighters and up, your ship will die. The inverse-squares law being what it is, though, it means that missiles will have to detonate closer to a shielded fighter than an unshielded one to score the same kill.

They also presumably allow one to operate at higher velocities in atmosphere, in higher-desnity regions of space, or in regions where micrometeorites are common (like the orbit of a space-traveling world, for instance--having your tripple-ace squadron commander taken out by a wrench has to be bloody embarassing).

I wouldn't be surprised if they were needed for hyperspace, as well, since every hyper-capable craft I've seen has had shields.

So, basically, adding shields makes fighters less of flying deathtraps in combat, without significantly increasing their effectiveness, and makes them safer to operate in adverse conditions. As long as your Jedi can avoid running into a frozen globule of voided urine at a tenth the speed of light, he should be no worse off than he would be in a shielded fighter.

[FTeik]

JFC, did it ever occur to you to compare the size and mass of the fighters with shields and those without?

[Darth Wong]

Excellent point and I'm quite frankly disgusted that no one else brought it up before now. It's ridiculous to forget that such a system must surely require space, mass, and power.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

JFC, did it ever occur to you to compare the size and mass of the fighters with shields and those without?

This is Kurgan we're talking about: a guy who has a habit of debating and discussing stuff to death purely for the sake of it while being generally too lazy and forgetful to retain information that might be useful.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Spanky, you didn't say anything on size, either, thus you are being a hypocrite.

[Cykeisme]

It's blindingly obvious that the Eta-2 is so tiny and maneuverable, yet maintaining hard-hitting guns, because it has no shields. It has nothing to do with "affording" shields; it's obviously a conscious design decision. The thing is specifically designed to take advantage of Jedi reflexes, or precognition, rather.

I'm convinced that the idea that non-Jedi fly Eta-2 fighters stems from the fact that a Venator-class ship's fighter complement states that it has 192 Eta-2s; furthermore, I'm convinced that this is a typo of some sort, though I can't prove it. Pie in the sky, hairbrained kinda thing, yell at me if you wish.
In my book, only Jedi are skilled and arrogant enough to fly the tiny deathtraps and actually be combat effective.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were needed for hyperspace, as well, since every hyper-capable craft I've seen has had shields.

Hmm.. Eta-2s can use hyperspace boost rings, and those were never mentioned to provide shields. I think the correlation between hyperspace capability and shields is simply a matter of size, space and power generation.
I like your (and Mad's) assessment of the pros and cons of shields, though.

Experienced TIE fighter pilots did fine without shields. (If they survived long enough to be experienced.)

TIE fighters have shields

TIE/ln craft are not only much larger than Eta-2s, they have a performance envelope similar to X-Wings. They're more similar in concept to other fighter designs than to the Eta-2.

[VT-16]

furthermore, I'm convinced that this is a typo of some sort, though I can't prove it

We see Imperial Eta-2s in Republic 78, weeks after the CW ended.

[Mad]

TIE fighters have shields

There's no evidence that standard TIE fighters have shields, though. The TIEs that attacked the Falcon as it was escaping the first Death Star had some kind of shielding, but that doesn't mean all standard TIEs have combat shields.

The need for TIEs flying around in the debris field of a recently destroyed planet to have some form of shielding is obvious. Standard TIE fighters are explicitly stated (in the EU) to not have shields (presumably referring to combat shields). It is reasonable to conclude that at least some of the TIEs serving the Death Star were modified to carry shields.

TIE/ln craft are not only much larger than Eta-2s, they have a performance envelope similar to X-Wings. They're more similar in concept to other fighter designs than to the Eta-2.

Most of the bigger size, as far as I can tell, comes from the side panels. Those panels don't factor in very much in most dogfights, though. When head-on, they are thin and the cockpit and pylons are the main targets. When viewed from the side, you have to work against the craft's accelerative capability when trying to track it to score a hit. Either way, a TIE is not an easy hit.

[Cykeisme]

furthermore, I'm convinced that this is a typo of some sort, though I can't prove it

We see Imperial Eta-2s in Republic 78, weeks after the CW ended.

Whoa, okay, my bad. I guess there were Imperial Navy clones flying Eta-2s. I wonder how effective they are in combat, though.

Most of the bigger size, as far as I can tell, comes from the side panels. Those panels don't factor in very much in most dogfights, though. When head-on, they are thin and the cockpit and pylons are the main targets. When viewed from the side, you have to work against the craft's accelerative capability when trying to track it to score a hit. Either way, a TIE is not an easy hit.

True.
An X-Wing's head-on silhouette is pretty narrow too, though. How's it compare with a TIE's? Those four engines are big, but the fuselage itself is very narrow, and the S-foils (like the radiator panels) don't factor much.

There's still another ongoing thread ( http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 7&start=50 ) regarding TIE fighter durability right now, so I'll leave it at that.. there was a good link on that thread, though
http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... dID=155493

[FTeik]

The funny thing is - IIRC - that according to the ROTS-novel the Etas seem to have shields (came up in a discussion with Conner not so long ago).

Also according to the AotC-novel Jango thinks himself comparable to a Jedi in terms of piloting-skills.

[Darwin]

Sounds all pretty well covered.

The jedi Delta-7 Aethersprite fighters had shields (Fire from Slave 1 scarred the skin of obi-wan's fighter) and certainly may have turned a crippling hit into a glancing hit.

As stated before, the Eta-2's were warships with manuverability and firepower at a priority. The Delta-7's were peacetime general-purpose ships and had marginal firepower in tradeoff for some shielding protection and more sensors. It even had a trunk! The Eta-2's are clearly heavily gunned, purpose-built ships, and even smaller in general than the little Delta-7's. It's a tradeoff.

The Naboo fighters are a whole other beast, being 1: mid-size ships 2:built on a much more extravagant per-unit budget. They're good fighters, and appropriate for a planet with a limited military like Naboo. But I bet they were hangar queens, and that you could get four or more Tie/ln for the same price.

[Cykeisme]

As stated before, the Eta-2's were warships with manuverability and firepower at a priority. The Delta-7's were peacetime general-purpose ships and had marginal firepower in tradeoff for some shielding protection and more sensors. It even had a trunk! The Eta-2's are clearly heavily gunned, purpose-built ships, and even smaller in general than the little Delta-7's. It's a tradeoff.

To summarize Eta-2 design:
Priorities: Speed, guns.
Tradeoffs: Everything else.

[The Original Nex]

Since non-Jedi also use the Eta-2, this "they don't need it because they're Jedi" excuse is worthless. I reckon it's because the ships are the TIE fighters of the CW, so they are meant to operate similarly and have similar cut-backs because of this.

But to not have sensors? TIEs sure have those. Another explanation is that the Jedi had their own model of the Eta-2 built to their specifications, while a generic model was distributed for normal pilots.

[Lazarus]

Could it not be the case that all TIE's of Fighter, Interceptor and Bomber varieties do, in fact, not have combat shields, and the instances we've seen where they appear to could be standard flight shields for deflecting debris?

[Lex]

In Star Wars: Galaxtic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns, upgraded Jedi Starfighters do have shields.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Those are Delta-7 Interceptors, same family of ship, but still a different model.