About half of teenage goths have deliberately harmed themselves or attempted suicide, a new study suggests. But joining the modern subculture – which grew out of the 1980s gothic rock scene – may actually protect vulnerable children, researchers say.
The study followed 1258 young people who were interviewed at ages 11, 13, 15 and 19. It found that of those who considered themselves goths, 53% had self-harmed and 47% had tried to commit suicide. The average prevalence of self-harm among young people in the UK is 7% to 14%. Self-harm includes behaviours such as cutting or burning oneself. And about 6% of young people admit suicide attempts. Some studies suggest the incidence is rising in society.
Researchers at University of Glasgow found that while most self-harmers started the practice at age 12 to 13, they did not become goths until they were a couple of years older, on average.
“One common suggestion is they may be copying subcultural icons or peers [when they self-harm], but our study found that more young people reported self-harm before, rather than after, becoming a goth. This suggests that young people with a tendency to self-harm are attracted to the goth subculture,” says Robert Young, who led the study.
Quick fix
“Rather than posing a risk, it's also possible that by belonging to the goth subculture, young people are gaining valuable social and emotional support from their peers.” But he cautions: “However, the study was based on small numbers and replication is needed to confirm our results.” Only 25 participants felt strongly associated with goth culture.
Self-harming, Young says, is a behaviour that people often employ as a mechanism to deal with negative emotions. “It may be used as a quick-fix. "Some physiological studies suggest, or are compatible with the theory that endorphins [brain chemicals that produce a feeling of well-being] are released after episodes of self-harm," he told New Scientist.
Just 2% of the adolescents in the study identified with goth culture, although 8% said they had identified with it at some point in their lives. But it is a strongly non-violent and accepting subculture, which teens may find offers a supportive environment.
Michael van Beinum, a psychiatrist for children and adolescents, who advised on the study, agrees: “For some young people with mental health problems, a goth subculture may be attractive as it may allow them to find a community within which it may be easier for their distress to be understood.”
The 1980s goth culture grew out of the post-Punk movement and underwent a revival in the mid-1990s. Central to goth belief is the black aesthetic – taking icons that society regards as evil, such as skull imagery, and making them beautiful.
Journal reference: British Medical Journal (vol 332, p 909)
Not all that suprising. I thought that it was pretty well known that most Goths are former nerds/loners that found a clique.
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This is an interesting study, but in my own experiences i'd just like to point out that this isn't entirely accurate. I know Self Harmers who most definitely aren't Goths or belong to any other Goth subculture, and are in fact relatively normal people from disrupted families and in some cases could actually fit into the "popular" clique.
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This also leaves out that many goths aren't cutters or suicidal. I also think he's lumping a lot of things in as 'goth', like Emo and neo-punk.
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Sorry, the article lost me at the part where it said it was okay for kids to have a high chance to start cutting themselves for some vague, possibily non-existent benefit. Having friends means it's okay to pick up a life-destroying habit that's extremely addictive!
Stark wrote:Sorry, the article lost me at the part where it said it was okay for kids to have a high chance to start cutting themselves for some vague, possibily non-existent benefit. Having friends means it's okay to pick up a life-destroying habit that's extremely addictive!
That doesn't appear to me to be what the article is saying at all. It said most kids attempted self-harm before becoming goths, and suggests that the goth culture acts as a support group for these kids. The article doesn't condone self-harm at all; if anything, it offers a way out of a "life-destroying habit" in the form of emotional support in a group of peers with similar thoughts and beliefs.
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Yeah, the very article starts off saying that this might help protect people, aka, keep them from self-destructive habits.
I actually have a taste for the gothy, I'll admit with some shame. On the other hand, when I was at my most depressive and unstable I wore khaki shorts and Hawaiian shirts. This study doesn't surprise me.
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Stark wrote:Sorry, the article lost me at the part where it said it was okay for kids to have a high chance to start cutting themselves for some vague, possibily non-existent benefit. Having friends means it's okay to pick up a life-destroying habit that's extremely addictive!
What? Where? It said they're more likely to become goths after they self harm, where they will recieve emotional support, and presumably be less likely to slice themselves up because they're not total outsiders.
our study found that more young people reported self-harm before, rather than after, becoming a goth. This suggests that young people with a tendency to self-harm are attracted to the goth subculture,” says Robert Young, who led the study.
“Rather than posing a risk, it's also possible that by belonging to the goth subculture, young people are gaining valuable social and emotional support from their peers.”
It's addressing the worrying mothers that think because a kid listens to x band, they will start cutting themselves, because self mutilation is mentioned in popular bands' lyrics and is associated with goths, who are generally morbid anyway. It's saying goth culture may work like a support group for these kids better than other cliques or being an outsider because they have people around that understand.
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Pick wrote:I actually have a taste for the gothy, I'll admit with some shame. On the other hand, when I was at my most depressive and unstable I wore khaki shorts and Hawaiian shirts. This study doesn't surprise me.
Why should you be ashamed? Goth chicks are hot! There are stereotypes, and people that fit those stereotypes, but there's nothing wrong in liking a style. Nobody's ashamed for liking art fuckin' deco and Armani suits, are they?
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Dark Lord of the Bith wrote:That doesn't appear to me to be what the article is saying at all. It said most kids attempted self-harm before becoming goths, and suggests that the goth culture acts as a support group for these kids. The article doesn't condone self-harm at all; if anything, it offers a way out of a "life-destroying habit" in the form of emotional support in a group of peers with similar thoughts and beliefs.
An incredibly dysfunctional, ad-lib, tard support group. Sorry, I know plenty of fucked up girls who cut themselves, and they were emo lamers FIRST, cutters LATER. Many didn't even CONSIDER the idea until their emo wanker friends showed off their scars. The 'goths' who are likely to provide support aren't the lameass kiddie-goths who would engage in this behaviour anyway.
Yea, that's about as effective as headbutting concrete.
An interesting outcome, but not entirely unanticipated. Humans are social beasts. Even if you want to pile on the sins of being lame and whiny, it's healthier to be around others than to not be. I do hope they repeat the study and work on it more.
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Sorry, cutters need professional help, not faddish subcultures. It's something a little more serious than wearing parachute pants or keyboard ties, and leaving it up to a bunch of whiny teenagers seems suboptimal.
And hey, the study has 1200 people, 10% of which reported gothiness. Wow, a sample of 120 goths and post-goths: I'm stunned. The rates of goth self-harmers are probably dubious, given the attitude of goths toward academics, society and being hardcore, but that's for another study.
Stark wrote:Sorry, cutters need professional help, not faddish subcultures. It's something a little more serious than wearing parachute pants or keyboard ties, and leaving it up to a bunch of whiny teenagers seems suboptimal.
The study's not saying they don't need professional help; it's saying that kids who cut may be helped by joining this particular subculture. I don't see how that goes from being descriptive to being normative.
And hey, the study has 1200 people, 10% of which reported gothiness. Wow, a sample of 120 goths and post-goths: I'm stunned. The rates of goth self-harmers are probably dubious, given the attitude of goths toward academics, society and being hardcore, but that's for another study.
When you get past 30 or so random (that's the key) people in your study, there's only a small need to correct for the small sample size. That's why, for example, statisticians can conduct surveys representing all 300 million people in the United States by only interviewing a thousand.
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Stark wrote:Sorry, cutters need professional help, not faddish subcultures. It's something a little more serious than wearing parachute pants or keyboard ties, and leaving it up to a bunch of whiny teenagers seems suboptimal.
And hey, the study has 1200 people, 10% of which reported gothiness. Wow, a sample of 120 goths and post-goths: I'm stunned. The rates of goth self-harmers are probably dubious, given the attitude of goths toward academics, society and being hardcore, but that's for another study.
I'm stunned you think this misdirection gets you away from pretending your anecdotal claims carry any weight.
Surlethe got the rest. So I won't waste bandwidth by repetition.
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Dark Lord of the Bith wrote:That doesn't appear to me to be what the article is saying at all. It said most kids attempted self-harm before becoming goths, and suggests that the goth culture acts as a support group for these kids. The article doesn't condone self-harm at all; if anything, it offers a way out of a "life-destroying habit" in the form of emotional support in a group of peers with similar thoughts and beliefs.
An incredibly dysfunctional, ad-lib, tard support group. Sorry, I know plenty of fucked up girls who cut themselves, and they were emo lamers FIRST, cutters LATER. Many didn't even CONSIDER the idea until their emo wanker friends showed off their scars. The 'goths' who are likely to provide support aren't the lameass kiddie-goths who would engage in this behaviour anyway.
neato you are refuting a study of 1200 people with evidence from this chick ya used to know
and also most of the goths ive known have been fairly decent people. maybe you just hang out around the wrong ones
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Dark Lord of the Bith wrote:That doesn't appear to me to be what the article is saying at all. It said most kids attempted self-harm before becoming goths, and suggests that the goth culture acts as a support group for these kids. The article doesn't condone self-harm at all; if anything, it offers a way out of a "life-destroying habit" in the form of emotional support in a group of peers with similar thoughts and beliefs.
An incredibly dysfunctional, ad-lib, tard support group. Sorry, I know plenty of fucked up girls who cut themselves, and they were emo lamers FIRST, cutters LATER. Many didn't even CONSIDER the idea until their emo wanker friends showed off their scars. The 'goths' who are likely to provide support aren't the lameass kiddie-goths who would engage in this behaviour anyway.
Regardless of which behavior comes first, I think all would agree that is has to do with emotional issues that predate either becoming "goth," or self harm.
By the way, the DMV IV lists adult cutting behaviors as a symptom of what's called a "Borderline Personality Disorder."
Speaking from my own anecdotal evidence, the cutters I worked with were severely disturbed kids that kept their cutting activities secret. Are there some that do this to be "cool?" I'm sure there are, but just belonging to a group that glorifies this type of thing (not that all goths do) is a pretty good sign that they've got some emotional pain they're trying to deal with.
Most the cutter goths that I have come across in the psych emergancy tended to be lonely kids looking for acceptance from other people partially but mainly from their own families. Often they cut looking for attention from their parents... and one day just go a little to deep, a trip to the ER and then they end up at our doorstep claiming life sucks and they're parents don't care. Of course this is not to completely disregard redirection problems which plenty of them have, but frankly some socal counseling and especailly family counciling could certainly do a world of good for some of these folks.
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Larz wrote:Most the cutter goths that I have come across in the psych emergancy tended to be lonely kids looking for acceptance from other people partially but mainly from their own families. Often they cut looking for attention from their parents... and one day just go a little to deep, a trip to the ER and then they end up at our doorstep claiming life sucks and they're parents don't care. Of course this is not to completely disregard redirection problems which plenty of them have, but frankly some socal counseling and especailly family counciling could certainly do a world of good for some of these folks.
Usually, there is a dissociative quality to it. They feel perpetually 'numb' or empty, and when they cut themselves they can finally feel. That's how its usually described by them, and the literature on the subject confirms it (PDM). It provides an emotional "release," and they often become compulsive about doing it.
Superman wrote: Are there some that do this to be "cool?" I'm sure there are, but just belonging to a group that glorifies this type of thing (not that all goths do) is a pretty good sign that they've got some emotional pain they're trying to deal with.
The "are they doing it to be cool" thing has been a concern for ages, as a cry for attention from people dealing with relatively minor angst rather than major depression. That sort of thing is generally difficult to know, but while I don't know anyone that does it, there probably are a few that are real attention whores that do it, but they must have some issues to be that desperate to get attention.
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