Karen Traviss' Bloodlines

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 05:44am

FTeik wrote:
Mange wrote:
LordShaithis wrote:I'm starting to turn into a movies-only purist. The EU ratio of quality content to headache-inducing bullshit is way too miniscule.
I've started to have some doubts as well. Although I'm very well aware of the LFL canon policy, I don't think that the continuity people are doing a very good job. I understand that they don't want to put too much restrictions on authors, but... As it is now, I have no plans whatsoever of buying any novels etc. The only thing I plan to buy is the "Complete Incredible Cross-Sections of Vehicles" next year.

For the continuity-people to be able to do a better job it would be necessary for them to have the technical expertise AND care about those issues instead of just making sure, that Luke has a green lightsaber and not a blue one.

Yes, that's absolutely true. While I think that Chee seems to be fair enough, I'm not sure about Rostoni (which Traviss used as the Ultimate Authority in regards to the Clone number controversy) though (especially her post here: +http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... tart=01425 where she also said that people could "feel free to discuss why you think that's a small number". See how well THAT turned out.

).

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-02 05:57am

At least she asked for counterpoints. I don't think she was responsible for it going to pieces like that.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 06:12am

VT-16 wrote:At least she asked for counterpoints. I don't think she was responsible for it going to pieces like that.

I didn't mean in that way, I meant in her capacity as a continuity editor.

There's something I'm interested in getting an answer to from KT...

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-09-02 07:58am

So Traviss doesn't read reviews, I'm shocked.

Traviss wrote:And anyone who's hurt by comments about their work shouldn't be writing and putting their name on it anyway.

So ironic...

Traviss wrote:Now, if sales doubled or halved, that would get my attention. That's feedback. Hundreds of e-mails, if they all say the same thing, is market research gold.

How many people have told you that 3 million clones and Jedi traitors was stupid shit?

More than a dozen, I can assure you.

Traviss is correct in that writing to appease every single reader doesn't do anything for you from a business perspective. However, looking at individual reviews from fans or critics can help you artistically. Can sales tell you that you're writing quality stories, instead of just crap that appeals to the stupid masses?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 11:36am

Well, I've now been banned from the OS for "attacking" KT: +http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=1920

I fail to see how this was an "attack" other than I said that there are things that has been said that are unaccaptable (I do think it's unaccaptable to say that someone needs garroting). It wasn't intended as an attack.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-09-02 11:37am

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here: I can buy six movies on DVD and put them all on my shelf, and that's Star Wars. Period. People named "Chee" and "Rostoni" and "Traviss" and the million shitty books they cram onto the shelf at Borders next to all the Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons drivel don't mean shit to me.

"And then there were these Vong guys with uber biotech! And like after that there were some swarms of telepathic bug dudes, and omg the chiss are leet rofl!"

No. Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side, then many years later died to save the son who was a better man than he. The end. Fuck all this stupid EU shit.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-02 11:52am

Someone should make a SW movie purist wiki one of these days. Only info from the movies and from GL and names allowed for things in the movies. :P

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-09-02 02:11pm

No.

Movies. Only.

Not what Bob Chuckafuck the model-builder says in Star Wars Magazine #342. Not even what George Lucas says. Movies. Only. No hashing endlessly over a couple of offhand quotes from Lucas, spoken fifteen years apart, that seem to contradict each other.

Just the goddamn movies that everyone has seen. None of this secret Star Wars nerd insider knowledge.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-09-02 02:29pm

Karen wrote:I really enjoy kicking stuff around with other creatives, and everyone now knows I'm a retcon addict. Retcon is retroactive continuity -- the science of making stuff fit and getting better stories out of it. Retconning isn't about changing existing continuity: it's about taking seemingly contradictory issues that coexist in continuity already, due to errors or oversights, or even gaps, and finding a way to make it all work together, so that no piece of the continuity is ignored. Forget Sudoku and Rubik's cubes -- retcon is my Olympic mental gymnastics of choice.

She's a god damn hijacker. For Pete's sake. These "retcons" only happened because she screwed up in the first place. God. I'm speechless.

Post by **Edi** » 2006-09-02 03:08pm

So, Karen Traviss continues being a worthless cunt. It's good to know that at least some things stay constant. There's no way I'm spending a single euro on anything SW EU related what with the quality being this kind of shit. Denning and Allston are good writers, but sorry, there's no salvaging the shit the SWEU has turned to. I'd sooner start recollecting the Forgotten Realms franchise, since that seems to have climbed back from the mudbathing depths it sunk to at one point.

Edi

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-09-02 03:21pm

Page 93.

Bloodlines wrote: Han took the Falcon as close to maximum speed as he dared. They spent the three hours it took to cover the twenty thousand light-years to Coruscant watching readouts and indicators, hoping the dirve would hold together.

20,000 light years in three hours, and that aparently isn't even the maximum performance for the drive at this point.

I also noticed in the novel she's gone bakc to implying there were "millions" of clones instead of her 3 million garbage. Makes me wonder if someone forced a change on that issue on her...

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-09-02 03:26pm

I also noticed in the novel she's gone bakc to implying there were "millions" of clones instead of her 3 million garbage. Makes me wonder if someone forced a change on that issue on her...

Don't forget, she _loves_ retcons. Or, she just likes to screw up the SW EU soo badly.

Then she "fixes" it out of love. And then she "fixes the fix".

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 03:26pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:Page 93.

Bloodlines wrote: Han took the Falcon as close to maximum speed as he dared. They spent the three hours it took to cover the twenty thousand light-years to Coruscant watching readouts and indicators, hoping the dirve would hold together.
20,000 light years in three hours, and that aparently isn't even the maximum performance for the drive at this point.

That was somewhat surprising and positive to see. That's ~58,5 million c if I'm not mistaken and that accurately reflects the speeds of the hyperdrives in the movies.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-09-02 03:27pm

That's ~58,5 million c if I'm not mistaken and that accurately reflects the speeds of the hyperdrive in the movies.

It's probably consistent with the Endor-Sullust jump, but that's not top speed for SW...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 03:33pm

Stas Bush wrote:
That's ~58,5 million c if I'm not mistaken and that accurately reflects the speeds of the hyperdrive in the movies.
It's probably consistent with the Endor-Sullust jump, but that's not top speed for SW...

No, but it's a great leap from the thousands of c implied in some earlier novels.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-09-02 03:35pm

Stas Bush wrote:
I also noticed in the novel she's gone bakc to implying there were "millions" of clones instead of her 3 million garbage. Makes me wonder if someone forced a change on that issue on her...
Don't forget, she _loves_ retcons. Or, she just likes to screw up the SW EU soo badly. Then she "fixes" it out of love. And then she "fixes the fix".

Abel Pena and Dan Wallace love retcons too. The ony difference is they're brilliant at it.

Traviss' "retcons" butcher a formerly fine subject, which she then defends to the end, or, as you said, "fixes" it out of the goodness of her heart.

I think she's actually admitted writing "Odds" specifically to see her critics squirm.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-09-02 03:37pm

Having just got to this part..

Ender wrote:Its over a page long. Han and Leia pick up the Coruscant nav beacon (those things they haven't used in over 4000 years) 750,000 km out. Banter back and forth for over a page, drop out of hyperspace 500,000 km out.

Reading that, it actually sounds like it could mean that the beacon itself was 750,000 km out from Coruscant, not that he was detecting it at that range (remember the "maximum FTL speed" given on that same page was thousands of light years/hour.)

Evidently what she's describing is the Falcon's FTL sensors/communications picking up and interacting with the beacon in realspace (which apparently is transmitting FTL as well) and altered course (in hyperspace, it seems) to land there as well as submitting landing/docking info while still in hyperspace.

Which is a better (or more useful interpretation) of that crap, but it still seems like her understanding of hyperspace (even by what other authors have said) is fucked up.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-09-02 03:39pm

No, but it's a great leap from the thousands of c implied in some earlier novels.

Indeed; however, is it not the Falcon at max speed? That's strange. If the Falcon has one of the best hyperdrives in the Galaxy, and it's max speed is that of the simultaneous Rebel fleet jump...

Then something is clearly wrong.

Also, Palpatine's Coruscant-Mustafar trip was a lot faster than this.

So either the Falcon is faster, and then the EU again is untrue, or it's not the fastest ship at all...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-09-02 04:05pm

Stas Bush wrote:
Karen wrote:I really enjoy kicking stuff around with other creatives, and everyone now knows I'm a retcon addict. Retcon is retroactive continuity -- the science of making stuff fit and getting better stories out of it. Retconning isn't about changing existing continuity: it's about taking seemingly contradictory issues that coexist in continuity already, due to errors or oversights, or even gaps, and finding a way to make it all work together, so that no piece of the continuity is ignored. Forget Sudoku and Rubik's cubes -- retcon is my Olympic mental gymnastics of choice.
She's a god damn hijacker. For Pete's sake. These "retcons" only happened because she screwed up in the first place. God. I'm speechless.

She retcons TPM and AOTC to take place over 13 years apart now instead of 10.

How good of you to fix George Lucas' fuckup Karen.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 04:17pm

Ender wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:
Karen wrote:I really enjoy kicking stuff around with other creatives, and everyone now knows I'm a retcon addict. Retcon is retroactive continuity -- the science of making stuff fit and getting better stories out of it. Retconning isn't about changing existing continuity: it's about taking seemingly contradictory issues that coexist in continuity already, due to errors or oversights, or even gaps, and finding a way to make it all work together, so that no piece of the continuity is ignored. Forget Sudoku and Rubik's cubes -- retcon is my Olympic mental gymnastics of choice.
She's a god damn hijacker. For Pete's sake. These "retcons" only happened because she screwed up in the first place. God. I'm speechless.
She retcons TPM and AOTC to take place over 13 years apart now instead of 10.

How good of you to fix George Lucas' fuckup Karen.

Has she "retconned" that?

That doesn't work at all (as the G-canon is quite specific) and can safely be tossed out.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-09-02 04:18pm

She now insists that Boba Fett was 13 years old at the Battle of Geonosis.

As oppossed to 9 according to AOTC.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-02 04:22pm

She retcons TPM and AOTC to take place over 13 years apart now instead of 10.

How good of you to fix George Lucas' fuckup Karen.

She actually wrote that?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-09-02 04:36pm

Ender wrote:She now insists that Boba Fett was 13 years old at the Battle of Geonosis.

As oppossed to 9 according to AOTC.

Hmm, I think that could stem from something that George Lucas supposedly said about Boba Fett and ROTS according to the Star Wars Insider:

Art Department notes wrote:On January 10, Lucas states definitively that Boba Fett would only be 16 and therefore too young.

It's never specified what he's too young for. Again, this is non-canon conjecture and an obvious mistake made by someone. That KT uses it to "retcon" the age of Boba Fett is... unbelieveable

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-09-02 05:22pm

VT-16 wrote:
She retcons TPM and AOTC to take place over 13 years apart now instead of 10.

How good of you to fix George Lucas' fuckup Karen.
She actually wrote that?

Oh yeah, Boba was now 13 when Jango died.

Also, durasteel has a yield stress of only 80 kg/cm^2

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-09-02 05:53pm

If only their was a way to inform Lucas that an EU writer is trying to take precedence over his G-Level Canon; last I checked, he made it fairly clear that the movies were HIS domain, and what he says in them is written in stone unless HE changes it.