Nude teens raising eyebrows in Vermont

[Wanderer]

Okay, now this is an interesting topic

By LISA RATHKE, Associated Press Writer Sat Sep 2, 5:19 PM ET

BRATTLEBORO, Vt. - Nudity isn't new here. Usually it bares itself in more subtle places than a downtown parking lot, though.

This summer, a group of teenagers has disrobed near restaurants, bookstores and galleries, igniting a debate about whether this bohemian southern Vermont town should ban a practice that has been tolerated until now.

"Brattleboro tends to be a laid-back town and pretty accepting of the unusual, but this is really pushing limits," said Police Chief John Martin.

"It's clearly to outrage people, it's clearly rebelliousness," he said.

By most accounts, the stripping started on a whim in early summer when a young woman sat naked on a park bench, Martin said. Then another woman started taking her shirt off downtown.

A music festival promoting nudity and rebelliousness set up in May in a downtown parking lot and attracted nude hula hoopers, Martin said.

Last month, a half dozen young people bared their bodies in the lot, encircled by the backs of bookstores, coffee shops and restaurants.

They say they're just exercising their rights.

"It's just an act of freedom," said 19-year-old Adhi Palar. "We're just doing so because we can." Palar and the others "do not consider nakedness to be innately sexual or rude and it shouldn't be confined to that," he said.

All the bare skin has raised eyebrows, even in a town that has seen clothing-optional swimming holes, streakers and an event known as "Breast Fest," which featured women parading topless.

To some, a bunch of teenagers going au naturel is just harmless rebellion.

"To most people, it's not a big deal," said Catherine Kauffman, 57, who calls Brattleboro "a don't-take-away-too-many-of-my-rights kind of town."

Rich Geidel, 50, co-owner of Everyone's Books, said the parking lot may not be the most appropriate place for nudity, but he said he's not concerned.

"We don't think it's bad for kids to hang out," he said. "As long as people are polite, don't block the entrance, we don't ask them to leave."

To others, it's disturbing. Some worry it could drive business away from downtown.

"It's a bad image for Brattleboro," said Ozzie Kocaoglu, 43, who owns Sundried Tomato restaurant at the far end of the parking lot, which has long been a teen hangout.

Vermont has no state laws against public nudity, but communities can pass their own rules banning it.

At least eight cities and towns have passed anti-nudity ordinances, according to the Vermont League of Cities and Towns.

So far, Brattleboro has chosen not to, but the teenagers' dress-down may change that. The town is researching what other communities have done to curb their nakedness.

The 50,000-member American Association for Nude Recreation espouses nude recreation in appropriate places, but doesn't use nudity "for social commentary, or rebelliousness or an act of civil disobedience," said Mary Jane Kolassa.

Baring it all as a form of social protest is growing.

This summer, nude bicyclists rode through Burlington to protest the country's reliance on oil, part of an event known as the World Naked Bike Ride. Elsewhere, nudity has been used to oppose the
Iraq war and the treatment of animals.

In Vermont, voters in another town shot down a ban on nudity after two public votes.

Prompted by complaints about nudity and sexual activity at a swimming hole, the Wilmington select board passed an anti-nudity ordinance in 2002. But supporters of the freedom to skinny dip rejected the ban.

"There were some ugly moments in the debate with some name calling and lots of good healthy debate about reasonable rights and responsibility under those rights," said Town Clerk Susie Haughwout. Officials weren't sure how they would have enforced a ban and to what extent, she said.

For now Brattleboro is weighing its options. And waiting for summer to turn to fall.

"As soon as winter comes, there won't be a story anymore," said Town Clerk Annette Cappy.

___

On the Net:

American Association for Nude Recreation: http://www.aanr.com

World Naked Bike Ride: http://www.worldnakedbikeride.org

Now should we allow people to go nude in public, or are there non religious arguements to not allow this.[/code]

[Pick]

Generally, I don't have a problem with toplessness. When it comes to the actual sexual organs, however, I think nudity might cause some unwarranted distraction and opportunity for hazard. I don't have enough information for a totally informed judgment, though.

[Lord Woodlouse]

*shrug* To say there's nothing inately sexual about sexual organs seems a bit bonkers to me. We're pretty much hardwired to see them (and secondary sexual features, like breasts) as things to stimulate sexual interest. Society might exacerbate the situation, but it's still something that is pretty much there all the time. We're sexually active creatures 24/7, afterall.

Is it good or bad? Dunno. I certainly think sex is probably more of a taboo than it should be in modern society, but I am instinctually wary of subjecting very young children to sexual images. I honestly don't know if it could have an overall negative effect on their development though.

I'd personally not be too bothered. Though I have to admit I'd probably find it childishly amusing.

[Noble Ire]

Having been to Brattleboro on numerous occasions (I even know exactly which parking lot the article is talking about), I am completely unsuprised by this, even if I hadn't heard about it before.

I really don't see a problem with a certain extent of public nudity. As Pick says, there may be occasions where it might be excessive or perhaps even pose a saftey risk, but that would really have to be a case-by-case determination. If your going to worry about the type of person who is prone to being distracted to the point of posing a hazard by nudity, a don't think there's going to be much distinction between toplessness and showing genitalia.

[Setesh]

Nudity, public or otherwise, as a sexual thing, is a matter of perspective. If your around it often enough it becomes routine and you stop noticing.

[Pick]

I really don't see a problem with a certain extent of public nudity. As Pick says, there may be occasions where it might be excessive or perhaps even pose a saftey risk, but that would really have to be a case-by-case determination. If your going to worry about the type of person who is prone to being distracted to the point of posing a hazard by nudity, a don't think there's going to be much distinction between toplessness and showing genitalia.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of how much more vulnerable things can be when they're a-swingin' in the wind. Wouldn't personally know, but just saying .

[Noble Ire]

I really don't see a problem with a certain extent of public nudity. As Pick says, there may be occasions where it might be excessive or perhaps even pose a saftey risk, but that would really have to be a case-by-case determination. If your going to worry about the type of person who is prone to being distracted to the point of posing a hazard by nudity, a don't think there's going to be much distinction between toplessness and showing genitalia.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of how much more vulnerable things can be when they're a-swingin' in the wind. Wouldn't personally know, but just saying .

...you might have a point there. Well, I never said I'm particularly enthused with the idea of prancing about naked, but if other people want to do it and take the inherent... risks, I don't have a problem with it.

[Faqa]

We are SIX POSTS into a topic containing the words "naked teens", and there have been no pic demands. That's like, an Internet first, I think....

On-topic? Whatever. Public nudity is stupid, and so are laws against it.

[General Zod]

Nudity, public or otherwise, as a sexual thing, is a matter of perspective. If your around it often enough it becomes routine and you stop noticing.

I dunno, saying that whether it's sexual depends on the person watching is kind of stupid. By your logic, someone who's simply walking around naked because they prefer it is a sexual act if a complete stranger walks up and gets aroused, even if there's no sexual intent on behalf of the person walking about naked.

[Zac Naloen]

I find this a little surprising. having been to florida where people are insulted if a guy walks around with his shirt off..

[Setesh]

Nudity, public or otherwise, as a sexual thing, is a matter of perspective. If your around it often enough it becomes routine and you stop noticing.

I dunno, saying that whether it's sexual depends on the person watching is kind of stupid. By your logic, someone who's simply walking around naked because they prefer it is a sexual act if a complete stranger walks up and gets aroused, even if there's no sexual intent on behalf of the person walking about naked.

You got my point backwards.

[Wanderer]

So there seems to not be a non religious reason why nudity shouldn't be around?

Personally I say if thats what they want to do, all the more power to them. How they withstand the elements, I'll not ask.

[Aaron]

Is it good or bad? Dunno. I certainly think sex is probably more of a taboo than it should be in modern society, but I am instinctually wary of subjecting very young children to sexual images. I honestly don't know if it could have an overall negative effect on their development though.

I have two young children and as long as you explain sexual images or references to them in a mature and responsible manner they are not adversly affected by them. My kids see my wifes breasts occasionaly and sometimes see us naked and they think nothing of it. My son asked when he was four why he had a penis and his sister had a vagina and we explained why and he shruged his shoulders and went on with life. It's not like they are going to go and turn into porn addicts or rapists later in life like fundies would have you believe.

[Darth Wong]

I have two young children and as long as you explain sexual images or references to them in a mature and responsible manner they are not adversly affected by them. My kids see my wifes breasts occasionaly and sometimes see us naked and they think nothing of it. My son asked when he was four why he had a penis and his sister had a vagina and we explained why and he shruged his shoulders and went on with life. It's not like they are going to go and turn into porn addicts or rapists later in life like fundies would have you believe.

Indeed. In fact, I would argue that it's the fundies who give their children sexual neuroses by surrounding the subject of sex with so much guilt and mystery and fear.

[Noble Ire]

One reason why public nudity might be a bad idea is consider you are operating a motor vehicle, and a group of totally nude hawtties are outside, clearly in your view. Distracting. While some of us might not be distracted by that, many would, and taking your eyes off the road when driving could lead to an accident.

While nudity is undoubtedly one of the more eyecatching images that humans are attracted to, banning it simply because there are some drivers who are too sex-obsessed to keep their eyes off any piece of exposed flesh is a rather weak excuse. After all, road-side advertisements of all sorts are specifically designed to pull the attention of motorists away from the road; that is somewhat dangerous as well, but few people have tried to have all manner of outdoor distractions banned as "safety hazards". Admittedly, there are some circumstances where the added potential for distraction might be genuinely perilous, but in such circumstances there are probably more pressing considerations to be taken into account anyways.

Besides, as Setesh points out, if public nudity became common enough that the taboo surrounding it faded away, any added risk would quickly vanish.

[Winston Blake]

One problem I can see with non-topless nudity is hygiene, specifically I'm imagining people having to sit on a bus/train/etc seat where somebody's sweaty asshole has actually been in physical contact with the seat. Also, i'd love to see hot naked girls everywhere as much as the next guy, but the idea of being bumped into by some obese guy and his cheesy erect genitalia turns me off.

[Dooey Jo]

If people wants to run around naked, I don't care (on a hot summer's day people practically do that already). However, I will say this: Running around naked can do very bad things to perfectly fine breasts.

[Broomstick]

Like it said in the article, when winter sets it, the point will be moot.

[RedImperator]

One reason why public nudity might be a bad idea is consider you are operating a motor vehicle, and a group of totally nude hawtties are outside, clearly in your view. Distracting. While some of us might not be distracted by that, many would, and taking your eyes off the road when driving could lead to an accident.

By that logic, everyone should be forced to wrap him or herself up in ballroom drapes when outdoors. It's not as if a hot woman wearing clothes isn't potentially distracting.

[Darth Wong]

Hell, in some countries people think an exposed knee is distracting.

[Spin Echo]

We are SIX POSTS into a topic containing the words "naked teens", and there have been no pic demands. That's like, an Internet first, I think....

If you're that curious, you can fine a picture of it here.

[Darth Servo]

We are SIX POSTS into a topic containing the words "naked teens", and there have been no pic demands. That's like, an Internet first, I think....

If you're that curious, you can fine a picture of it here.

Yeah, but thats just GUYS. Hipper and Einy might be interested but not most of the board.

[Hillary]

One problem I can see with non-topless nudity is hygiene, specifically I'm imagining people having to sit on a bus/train/etc seat where somebody's sweaty asshole has actually been in physical contact with the seat. Also, i'd love to see hot naked girls everywhere as much as the next guy, but the idea of being bumped into by some obese guy and his cheesy erect genitalia turns me off.

The Fundies would probably claim that girls would get pregnant by sitting on a bus seat previously used by a heathen.

I agree with you about the hygiene issue - I guess we'd all have to carry round towels to sit on, like in the steam room

[Lord Woodlouse]

Is it good or bad? Dunno. I certainly think sex is probably more of a taboo than it should be in modern society, but I am instinctually wary of subjecting very young children to sexual images. I honestly don't know if it could have an overall negative effect on their development though.

I have two young children and as long as you explain sexual images or references to them in a mature and responsible manner they are not adversly affected by them. My kids see my wifes breasts occasionaly and sometimes see us naked and they think nothing of it. My son asked when he was four why he had a penis and his sister had a vagina and we explained why and he shruged his shoulders and went on with life. It's not like they are going to go and turn into porn addicts or rapists later in life like fundies would have you believe.

Y'know, you're probably right. Simple social inertia working on my mind probably.

[Rye]

If you think about it, if there were a sexually reproducing species, it would be the lamest species ever if merely seeing nude members of its own species or sexual behaviour damaged it.