Space Empires Gold B5 Game (The Second)
Moderator: Thanas
Yeah that's a shit, it looks like Tobor set his ships to fire on unarmed and transports first. Usually I make a class of ship exactly like all my warships, rip out all the weapons and slap in cargo bay.
I'm surprised at all the little tricks I forgot about, like U235 using his ships to block off the jump gate. I'm going to have to assume anybody who wants to invade CS will bring along a jump gate closer and have my own jump gate closer on my warp point on repeat orders opening a gate from a storm so nobody can bypass my wormhole defense.
I hope though in SE:V some of the little tricks disappear like population trading, turtling, etc. I kind of agree with Gups that it's more like making borderline exploits rather than strategy.
I think homeworld hub in B5 should be system grav shields. They should control their local jump gates and it should be permanent. But we won't patch this game again, unless something really drastic happens like someone closes a > 50 LY gate to Brakiri or Minbari space, or else it'll go back to manual turns for a month
I'm surprised at all the little tricks I forgot about, like U235 using his ships to block off the jump gate. I'm going to have to assume anybody who wants to invade CS will bring along a jump gate closer and have my own jump gate closer on my warp point on repeat orders opening a gate from a storm so nobody can bypass my wormhole defense.
I hope though in SE:V some of the little tricks disappear like population trading, turtling, etc. I kind of agree with Gups that it's more like making borderline exploits rather than strategy.
I think homeworld hub in B5 should be system grav shields. They should control their local jump gates and it should be permanent. But we won't patch this game again, unless something really drastic happens like someone closes a > 50 LY gate to Brakiri or Minbari space, or else it'll go back to manual turns for a month
i was under the impression that if an opposing race had units/ships on a jump gate you couldnt close it. At least thats what happened when i tried doing it . I got told that the action failed because there were foreigners on the other side.
"If you desire my position, alll you have to do is take it from my cold, dead hands!"
-Sebastian Shaw
-Sebastian Shaw
Cool, do you have a screen of that?Tobor wrote:i was under the impression that if an opposing race had units/ships on a jump gate you couldnt close it. At least thats what happened when i tried doing it . I got told that the action failed because there were foreigners on the other side.
I just closed two gates with the EA and I'm sure they were defended on the other side (U235 seems to like to split up his fleet everywhere and defend every single gate, bah).
- GuppyShark
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That's fine Gups. I did it for an entire month lol, shuttling turns and work back home with my USB pen. And voluntarily too. But it fucking gave out after 40 degree weather.
It also gives me an excuse to drag my ass with the Nephtys Mod. Lol. And I need to. Nephtys might kill me for making her wait so long, but ah well can't please all the gods at once.
It also gives me an excuse to drag my ass with the Nephtys Mod. Lol. And I need to. Nephtys might kill me for making her wait so long, but ah well can't please all the gods at once.
The second I want to talk peace, Tobor leaves for an oil rig somewhere and Gups's DSL breaks down. It's a conspiracy I tell you! Conspiracy!
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
What I want to know is how the hell it happened. When Tobor lost his 100 US ships, you still had 200+... it's like Japan pulling something out of its ass after Midway .Trogdor wrote:The second I want to talk peace, Tobor leaves for an oil rig somewhere and Gups's DSL breaks down. It's a conspiracy I tell you! Conspiracy!
- GuppyShark
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Well I'll pay closer attention to the score next time... somehow Tobor's been fielding a huge fleet. Mostly with remote mining?GuppyShark wrote:Those were his expendable mercenary ships, not his fleet.brianeyci wrote:What I want to know is how the hell it happened. When Tobor lost his 100 US ships, you still had 200+... it's like Japan pulling something out of its ass after Midway .
I wish I could see the 200+ frigates and light cruisers get their ass spanked by the 24 heavy baseships. My babies in action lol. Would've been more effective if the frigates and light cruisers just rammed the damn things since their damage soak probably took everything. Then again... the heavy baseships were really heavily armored.
Anatomy of a Royally Botched Conquest Attempt
What Tobor lacked in firepower he made up in sheer audacity. I didn't have an army immeditaly after destroying his US fleet so I waited to build one up. I made a deal to get soldiers and transports off of Tux, but for whatever reason he kept not handing it over and then gave it to Dalton instead of me.
Meanwhile, Tobor apparently took the time to build fast little troop transports. He used their speed and the hiding in nebulae tactic to grab multiple developed colonies of mine.
My Expeditionary Force, roughly 100 ships strong, moves into Cascan. Tobor's still ripping me apart at home, but I figure that the center will hold.
Dalton drops out. When I get his stuff I make the lovely discovery that Tobor's still got about 20 US ships and is wrecking havok on the Narn with them. I send Dalton's old Corporate fleet to stop them, only to have the US ships rip it to shreds. I'm panicking by now.
My Expeditionary Force muscles its way into Vreetan, losing about 40 ships in the process, including all the troop transports. I'm kind of at a loss here. History indicates that Tobor won't freak out and capitulate if I start blasting homeworlds. I redo the turn multiple times, eventually meaning to just blockade the Vreetan/Cascan gate but apparently ordering the fleet to glass Ambition.
In the meantime, I've spotted a transport Tobor's trying to hide in a nebulae in Thessin. I send a number of my Brakiri ships guarding Thessin X after it, determined he not snatch another colony. It goes off in a direction I didn't expect it and the pursuit force chases it out of the system. Then I get this lovely little message from Kojiro, informing me that he expected Tux to attack the Dilgar and gave them a fully stocked carrier to defend themselves with.
Now, pretty much all the Krakens were off with the Expeditionary Force (and were destroyed, of course), and the remaining Black Sabbaths I have guarding Thessin X don't have PD guns. Neither do the fighters I have station there, they've all got missiles.
So I'd say it was lack of fighter defenses, lack of preparation for war beforehand, overconfidence in my home world's abilities to defend themselves, and foreign intervention. It also didn't help that I can't repair the foreign ships, and the guns seem to be the first thing to go on your US ships.
What Tobor lacked in firepower he made up in sheer audacity. I didn't have an army immeditaly after destroying his US fleet so I waited to build one up. I made a deal to get soldiers and transports off of Tux, but for whatever reason he kept not handing it over and then gave it to Dalton instead of me.
Meanwhile, Tobor apparently took the time to build fast little troop transports. He used their speed and the hiding in nebulae tactic to grab multiple developed colonies of mine.
My Expeditionary Force, roughly 100 ships strong, moves into Cascan. Tobor's still ripping me apart at home, but I figure that the center will hold.
Dalton drops out. When I get his stuff I make the lovely discovery that Tobor's still got about 20 US ships and is wrecking havok on the Narn with them. I send Dalton's old Corporate fleet to stop them, only to have the US ships rip it to shreds. I'm panicking by now.
My Expeditionary Force muscles its way into Vreetan, losing about 40 ships in the process, including all the troop transports. I'm kind of at a loss here. History indicates that Tobor won't freak out and capitulate if I start blasting homeworlds. I redo the turn multiple times, eventually meaning to just blockade the Vreetan/Cascan gate but apparently ordering the fleet to glass Ambition.
In the meantime, I've spotted a transport Tobor's trying to hide in a nebulae in Thessin. I send a number of my Brakiri ships guarding Thessin X after it, determined he not snatch another colony. It goes off in a direction I didn't expect it and the pursuit force chases it out of the system. Then I get this lovely little message from Kojiro, informing me that he expected Tux to attack the Dilgar and gave them a fully stocked carrier to defend themselves with.
Now, pretty much all the Krakens were off with the Expeditionary Force (and were destroyed, of course), and the remaining Black Sabbaths I have guarding Thessin X don't have PD guns. Neither do the fighters I have station there, they've all got missiles.
So I'd say it was lack of fighter defenses, lack of preparation for war beforehand, overconfidence in my home world's abilities to defend themselves, and foreign intervention. It also didn't help that I can't repair the foreign ships, and the guns seem to be the first thing to go on your US ships.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
The guns are the first thing to go cause of leaky armor. The bigger it is the more likely it is to get hit. And, if the guns are 300+ kT (I don't know, never checked) on massive mount, then they are the FIRST to go, before the leaky armor (emissives are 300 kT of protection). The leaky armor in B5 isn't properly done... the armor should be 2 or 3 times the damage resistance of the component they're supposed to protect, or more likely than not the component's damaged more than the armor.
The fighters, you can deal with ramming. Primary strategy maximum firing range, secondary strategy ram. Your weapons have 1 reload rate, right? Then when they can't target, they can ram. But if they're 3 reload it's a little tricker... but just slap in one gun that's one reload. And my US ships should be immune to fighters with their 400 damage soak.
Anyway, a decoy huh. Brilliant . I didn't really expect the 100 US ships to turn the tide of war but only hold their own against the 100 I sold you earlier (or 124, I don't know where he pulled the 24 from I didn't sell him them, he must have kept some in reserve). And Vorlon fighters? 200 damage cannons, and emissive armor? Well great.
So Marxis's plan worked. Incredible. I can't believe Tobor pulled it out of his ass. So is it subjugation, then? .
The 60 move troop transports are a real pain in the ass unless you're ready. I was thinking of doing it to U235 early on, but changed my mind, mostly because it was out of character for Marxis to want to kill his own species, but also because I thought it really cheap (like I thought of how I got 300 ships before anybody else had anything really cheap but ah well I'm glad I held back). A few mines should deal with it. Most of my early worlds have 100 mines over them. I took all the Yolu colonies in one turn from U235 the same way.
Also, Black Sabbath can hit fighters. The Vorlon fighters must have just kicked a lot of ass.
The fighters, you can deal with ramming. Primary strategy maximum firing range, secondary strategy ram. Your weapons have 1 reload rate, right? Then when they can't target, they can ram. But if they're 3 reload it's a little tricker... but just slap in one gun that's one reload. And my US ships should be immune to fighters with their 400 damage soak.
Anyway, a decoy huh. Brilliant . I didn't really expect the 100 US ships to turn the tide of war but only hold their own against the 100 I sold you earlier (or 124, I don't know where he pulled the 24 from I didn't sell him them, he must have kept some in reserve). And Vorlon fighters? 200 damage cannons, and emissive armor? Well great.
So Marxis's plan worked. Incredible. I can't believe Tobor pulled it out of his ass. So is it subjugation, then? .
The 60 move troop transports are a real pain in the ass unless you're ready. I was thinking of doing it to U235 early on, but changed my mind, mostly because it was out of character for Marxis to want to kill his own species, but also because I thought it really cheap (like I thought of how I got 300 ships before anybody else had anything really cheap but ah well I'm glad I held back). A few mines should deal with it. Most of my early worlds have 100 mines over them. I took all the Yolu colonies in one turn from U235 the same way.
Also, Black Sabbath can hit fighters. The Vorlon fighters must have just kicked a lot of ass.
Hell no, I will not be Tobor's subjugate. You'll see Londo coup his way back into office and the entire Centauri Republic burn before that happens. The situation right now seems to be MAD if we keep it up. Besides, I've recieved a promise of foreign aid (I won't say who but I'm sure you can narrow it down to a couple of suspects), and if the Dilgar don't stop now they'll be fucked. Only problem for me is the Dilgar are in a position to do a huge amount of damage before they get here. I'm hoping Tobor learned to quit while he's ahead from the Narn-Dilgar War.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Well Nunziata found the override codes aka I'm setting all US and other ships sold during Marxis's reign to don't get hurt, so my ships will soon be useless, if that changes anything. I think. I'm not sure, because ship strategies are kind of fucked all over the place, and with a proper fleet strategy set to not break formation you might get around my override code. But we'll see. Marxis wasn't stupid enough to sell aliens ships they could use against him .
I don't get on how you plan on making that work. They're my ships now, and I'm not going to set them to don't get hurt. You don't expect everyone with a US warship to do it because of the RP, do you?
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
No of course not. The US design isn't in your list is it? I can set it to don't get hurt on my side. I'm not sure if that works, but I'm pretty sure it does, because earlier Gups was having trouble glassing worlds and my strategies are set to don't shoot planet.Trogdor wrote:I don't get on how you plan on making that work. They're my ships now, and I'm not going to set them to don't get hurt. You don't expect everyone with a US warship to do it because of the RP, do you?
Ah, I see. Just to let you know, you will be helping the Dilgar more by doing that.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Hm. Well I'll think about it.Trogdor wrote:Ah, I see. Just to let you know, you will be helping the Dilgar more by doing that.
Anyway from the Shrapnel Guide,
So it looks like if you put your ships in a fleet, and the fleet is set to a strategy that DOES NOT break formation, it follows the fleet strategy. At the worst, you just have to put your US ships in a fleet and set the fleet to a strategy that doesn't break formation and the trick doesn't work.2.10.6 Captured enemy ships use the ship strategy decided by the original creator of that ship. He may change that ship types strategy at any time and it will affect your ship. To stop this retrofit the ship to a design of your own. Also when in a fleet the ship will use the fleet strategy first. (Suicide Junkie, Stone Mill)
Anyway I'll think of it overnight. Maybe I can assume the Centauri checked the ships out and ripped out whatever trojans left in the computer core.
Please do. Most of my fleet at the moment is US warships. It'll fuck up my attempts at negotation ever so much if I suddenly find myself almost totally toothless.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Ships on don't get hurt still shoot back strangely. They just run into a corner, and sometimes the ships run into different corners and split up so there's no fire concentration. Anyway, I might not do it then. It's another little gamey trick that I only know because I've played a little more and I really hate gamey tricks. Not to mention all the fucking retrofitting I've done this game and in the second ST game, only to have one or two small battles, but that's a different story lol. Just tried to give the League 200 ships and the message got lost fuck. I hope in SE:V they hardcode a lot of diplomacy and have mass retrofit/mass construction/mass add unit buttons.Trogdor wrote:Please do. Most of my fleet at the moment is US warships. It'll fuck up my attempts at negotation ever so much if I suddenly find myself almost totally toothless.
Now if I set the US ships to ram that'd be a different story. But they've got so much armor anyway they'll win ramming anything short of a Minbari fucker. By the way how well does the Minbari heavy baseship sim against my US. I'm betting it kills mine ten to one... the range advantage is just too good.
- GuppyShark
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FYI, I've requested an extension for this turn due to my DSL being out. There's three empires directly impacted so I'll be asking for a rollback if the turn proceeds without us.
EDIT: Hurrah!
EDIT: Hurrah!
Last edited by GuppyShark on 2006-09-06 08:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Arthur_Tuxedo
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Done.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
- GuppyShark
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Judging from my (very) quick overview of the combat replay, I think your carrier might've been able to win the battle by itself. At the very least, the Dilgar fleet would've taken a lot more casualities before taking out my Maximus station.Kojiro wrote:Looks like Gups and I are back up.
Tell me Trogs did the fighters have that big an impact? I of course would have prefered they were used against Arthur but I'm curious to know how they performed.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader