Thoughts of water (Psuedoscience alert)

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2006-09-05 11:04pm

So, I'm discussing ghosts with someone on another board, and they were talking about some very bizarre and tangential stuff, which I asked for sources on. The first thing they mentioned was philotic particles, which I was curious to their source on, since the term originated in Science Fiction (and searches revealed only Sci-Fi related info). The other was that 'evil thoughts' can disrupt the formation of ice. Now, this is an incredibly wierd claim, and he had a link to a report on it, but given that it's presented as an interview, and non of the actual mechanics are described, It really just does not sound convincing.

Basically, I'm curious as to what your thoughts on both these subjects, philotic particles and the 'thoughts of ice', moreso on the latter. I'm pretty sure they're all BS, but I'd like to get someone else with more knowledge of the subject than I to make sure I don't shoot my mouth off first.

Oh, And for the really curious, his name is Udsuna. He's been FSTDT'd several times. Feel free to give him a look, since he seems to have the unique honor of being the only person on FSTDT to be quoted from FSTDT when he went to the site to try and defend himself.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-09-06 12:04am

Evil thoughts disrupt the formation of ice? Explain the weather when the Nazis tried to invade Russia, then.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2006-09-06 01:07am

Aren't philotic particles of significant important in the last 2 or 3 Enderverse books? You know, that bad ones?

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2006-09-06 11:46am

Hawkwings wrote:Aren't philotic particles of significant important in the last 2 or 3 Enderverse books? You know, that bad ones?

Philotics are important in all of the Ender books

Usage of Philotes Early in the series, philotic energy is used as a form of faster-than-light communication. Messages are transmitted via ansible to all of the other ansibles instantaneously.

Later on, it is also used as a form of near-instantaneous travel. Items being transported are sent Outside and then back in, arriving at the specified destination which may be any distance from the origin.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2006-09-06 01:10pm

Philotes were a retroactive explanation of the preexisting mechanics. If you never read a book featuring the word, you can still make perfect sense of the other books in the series.

They're a lot like Midichlorians, actually, both from the mechanical and literary perspectives.

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2006-09-06 04:24pm

Apparently he meant quantum entaglement when he said Philotic particles, though I've never heard of the former referred to as the latter.

He's also making claims of overunity devices...

udsuna wrote:As for your "free energy" disagreement- http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html- it exists, too. In theory and proof, the so-called "zero point energy" technology actually works. By, oddly enough, running ultrasonic energy through water. Produces more energy that is used to generate the effect. Substantially more, up to 10-15% surpluss. Unfortunately, we lose more to technological inefficiency than we can extract from it. I understand other people have designed magnetic generators capable of similar output. Not truly created from NOTHING, per se, but the universe itself was created from nothing, one way or another."

Has anyone heard of this expiriment? And can they tell me if, like I presume, that the water involved is being exhausted in the process?

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2006-09-06 04:38pm

Quantum entanglement does not need any superluminal effects; they are an artifact of the Copenhagen interpretation.

I love the doublespeak in that quote -- "not created from NOTHING" ok, so they're trying to say the energy came from somewhere... "but the universe itself was created from nothing, one way or another." Oh. So you need to defend the creation of something from nothing after all?

That web page is, as far as I can tell, technically accurate. It is not crazy to suppose that the expansion of the universe is a source of energy we could draw upon. I just think it's practically unachievable to actually draw upon it; and if we were able to, it would probably be a very bad idea to actually do it.
Burning oil is bad enough; do we need to burn the fabric of spacetime as well?

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2006-09-07 12:06am

drachefly wrote:Quantum entanglement does not need any superluminal effects; they are an artifact of the Copenhagen interpretation.

More properly, quantum entanglement only becomes apparent after you compare notes. Otherwise, the entangled particles look like any other stream of particles. You can't use quantum entanglement to send spacelike signals.

Also, the link is suspiciously bogus-looking. Were they hoping the people clicking the link would think that calphysics was associated with CalTech? Although I agree there is nothing technically wrong with the article upon a brief skim, its a long way from an untested physical hypothesis to practical applications. After all, energy densities 110 orders of magnitude greater than the sun sounds like it could do some damage if it's not precisely controlled, and we don't even have a good handle on fusion yet.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2006-09-07 10:42pm

Regarding the person mentioned in the topic;

If he was referencing the same thing I have heard of then he does not mean evil thoughts prevent or noticeably distort ice formation. Instead evil thoughts have been claimed to have an effect on the formation of ice crystals at the microscopic level by causing irregularities in the otherwise geometric ice crystals. Viewing these requires a special camera set up, and the claims I've heard also propose happy thoughts influence ice formation in a similar, but opposite (i.e. more regular) manner.

If anyone's curious, the 'pioneer' for all this water stuff is Mr. Emoto, he is featured in the movie "What the BLEEP do we know?" (where I first saw the claims).

Masaru Emoto

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-09-07 11:38pm

Damn it, I know I've seen a detailed article about the "evil ice"... I just can't remember where.