Steam and Steel: AltHist. Victorian STGOD

[Dahak]

I hope this STGOD doesn't die in its womb

[Thirdfain]

Steel Warships in the 1890's

This era represents a very chaotic time for naval planners the world over. TEchnology advanced at an unheardof pace, and designers and strategists who had worked with sailing ships made of wood in their youth were stunned by the success of steam-powered vessels armoured first in iron and then in steel, armed with powerful naval rifles firing explosive shells of unheardof power. New warships became obscelescent within months of their construction, especially as the pressure of the Great War turned the best minds in Europe to military pursuits. Turret-equipped steel and iron vessels had replaced sail frigates in a mere decade following the outbreak in 1860.

A variety of general warship types have appeared in this time, serving a number of roles.

Battleships

The battleship is the queen of the Victorian Indian Ocean. It represents a massive expenditure of resources and a mighty concentration of firepower.

Historical Example:
"Trafalgar"-class BB
(Great Britain)
Photograph
Schematic

Summary: This vessel represents a standard battleship of the era. It's primary striking power is divided between four heavy 13-inch main guns, mounted in two turrets fore and aft, and a secondary battery of intermediate-bore guns set along the ship's sides in broadside-like casements. These quicker-firing medium guns were to perforate the "vulnerable" unarmoured segments of the enemy- destroying the conning tower and killing crew with many light hits, while the four main guns were supposed to penetrate the armoured belt of enemy vessels and destroy the vitals. Torpedoes are fired fore and aft, but would be used only in rare circumstances of short range combat. A tertiary battery of light quick-firing guns are fitted to fend off torpedo boats.
This vessel is slow, expensive, and very heavily armed.

Commisioned: April, 1890
Displacement: 12,590 tons maximum
Dimensions : 368' x 73'
Draught: 28'
Main guns: 4 x 13.5" (2 x 2)
Secondary guns : 6 x 4.7" (6 x 1)
Torpedo tubes: 4 x 14" above water
Tertiary guns: 8 x 6pdr (8 x 1)
9 x 3pdr (9 x 1)
Crew: 572
Max speed: 17 knots
Range: 6500NM @ 10kts
Fuel: 1200 tons coal
Armour Belt: 14" - 20"
Deck: 3"
Turrets: 18"
C.T.: 2" - 14"

Armoured Cruisers

The armoured crusier represented a new philosophy- "stronger than fast, faster than strong." In other words, a vessel which could outrun what it couldn't outfight. Armoured cruisers were sheathed in armour, including a full belt with deck protection, but lacked the huge main guns of a battleship of the era. In terms of size, some built were the size of battleships or even larger, and such ships were actually considered capital vessels by naval planners of the time.

Historical Example:
"Dupuy de Lome"-class CA
(France)
Photo
Schematic
Summary: This armoured cruiser exemplified the new school of naval combat. Her armour allowed her to defeat unarmoured wooden or steel warships with ease, while her smaller size would allow her to outrun battleships. Vessels such as this would be seen as convoy raiders or protectors.
Built: 1890
Displacement: 6,676 tons
Dimensions:114.6x15.7x7.1
Max. Speed:19.5 kts
Crew: 520
Primary armament:2x 19cm
Secondary:6x 14 cm
Tertiary:4x quick-firers
Torpedoes: 2x 46cm tubes

[Vanas]

Tempting. Just when I'm in a Skies of Arcadia mood, too.

If possible, I'll take the big 3/4 of that island chain north of Madagascar, fill them with factories, universities and grand palaces and fly my flag from the rooftops. All of them. With grave penalties for those who do not fly said flag.

Now to work out how to get my Valuan ironclads back in the water...

[Crossroads Inc.]

For those looking for more info about Vic-Era warships I found a massive index of British warships from the Era here:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/battleships.htm

By the way, the "King Edward Class" I am choosing as my nations flagship, unless it is deemed too advanced.

[Thirdfain]

The game starts in 1890, but the Great War hurried developement in the fields of naval technology. However, the status of our nations as small colonial empires or newly rising native empires means that the effect is somewhat reversed. Anything commissioned after 1892 is roight out.

We'll be using a points-based system, ps.

Also, I intend to have battleships be very expensive and rare- players won't have more than about 10 capital ships in their fleet. We'll use a lot of protected (and even unprotected) cruisers and the like; nations of the types we'll be fielding aren't rich enough for much more.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Hrmm, King Edward Class, Commissioned 1903... Nope

I do like the ideas of Battleships being rare and expensive. Back during this time, when the tech for warships was still very new and not well understood, a full turreted Battleship was the most expensive and Technologically complicated undertaking a nation could achieve.

Ships like the HMS Royal Sovereign and the HMS Devastation where tremendously expensive undertakings, and for my own nation I would imagine maybe have only one or two Battleships in the very beginning.

[Thirdfain]

Protected Cruisers

The protected cruiser is a median between an armoured cruiser and an unprotected cruiser. It has deck armour, curved to provide limeted flank protection. Vessels of this type were cheaper, faster raiding, scouting, and policing vessels.

Historical Example:
"Newark"-class C
(United STates)
Photograph
Protected Cruiser Armour Layout

Summary: The light guns on a vessel of this sort allow it to engage other medium warships at range, and it's powerful battery of torpedo tubes allows it to threaten battleships at close range. It's sloped deck armour, however, is it's only protection- it's upper works are lightly armoured if at all.
Commisioned: Feb, 1891
Displacement: 4,592 tons
Dimensions : 327 x 49 x 18.5ft
Main guns: 12X6"
Tertiary guns: 4 x 6pdr (8 x 1)
4 gatling
4 quick-firers
Torpedoes: 6 14-inch tubes
Crew: 374
Max speed: 18 knots
Armour:
Deck: 3"
Guns: 2"

[Beowulf]

The game starts in 1890, but the Great War hurried developement in the fields of naval technology. However, the status of our nations as small colonial empires or newly rising native empires means that the effect is somewhat reversed. Anything commissioned after 1892 is roight out.

We'll be using a points-based system, ps.

Also, I intend to have battleships be very expensive and rare- players won't have more than about 10 capital ships in their fleet. We'll use a lot of protected (and even unprotected) cruisers and the like; nations of the types we'll be fielding aren't rich enough for much more.

That somewhat eliminates the entire destroyer class, considering I don't think the first one was launched until after 1892, with the HMS Havock. Considering one of the major wars of the Victorian Era (Russo-Japanese War) utilized them quite prominently, this is a bit of a let-down.

[Thirdfain]

That somewhat eliminates the entire destroyer class, considering I don't think the first one was launched until after 1892, with the HMS Havock. Considering one of the major wars of the Victorian Era (Russo-Japanese War) utilized them quite prominently, this is a bit of a let-down.

On the contrary, this period allows for both torpedo boats and torpedo boat destroyers, as torpedo boats had been in production since the 1880's and the first Torpedoboat Destroyers were launched in 1892- the effective date from which we may draw designs. So, there!

-edit- examples:

Japanese Torpedoboat "Kotaka" is launched in 1885, with expanded armament. Forrunner of modern TBDs.
Spanish Torpedoboat destroyer "Destructor" is launched in 1886, a true torpedoboat destroyer- actually larger than the British Havok years later!
British "Havok" is built in 1892- within the range of dates given- as you noted.

[Beowulf]

That somewhat eliminates the entire destroyer class, considering I don't think the first one was launched until after 1892, with the HMS Havock. Considering one of the major wars of the Victorian Era (Russo-Japanese War) utilized them quite prominently, this is a bit of a let-down.

On the contrary, this period allows for both torpedo boats and torpedo boat destroyers, as torpedo boats had been in production since the 1880's and the first Torpedoboat Destroyers were launched in 1892- the effective date from which we may draw designs. So, there!

-edit- examples:

Japanese Torpedoboat "Kotaka" is launched in 1885, with expanded armament. Forrunner of modern TBDs.
Spanish Torpedoboat destroyer "Destructor" is launched in 1886, a true torpedoboat destroyer- actually larger than the British Havok years later!
British "Havok" is built in 1892- within the range of dates given- as you noted.

Example 1 is classed as a Torpedo Boat, though a rather large and capable one. Example 3 wasn't launched until 1893, and wasn't commissioned until the following year.

I'll give you the Destructor though.

[Jalinth]

Given the area, I think that smaller ships will have more advantages than they would in a North Sea type area. Lots of islands, relatively narrow passages, and various other obstacles that make your capital ships vulnerable to torpedo boats and other small craft that normally in more of a coastal protection role.

Especially if I'm based near the straights of Malacca - not that much room to move around, making torpedo attacks - even better, night torpedo attacks - very effective. Also can make a rather nice crimp in enemy shipping or forcing them to go the long way around.

[Adrian Laguna]

I hope this STGOD doesn't die in its womb

I hope so too, particularly considered I seem to have bad karma. Every single online game thingy I join dies an early death. A fantasy RPG in another forum, a Star Wars RPG in that same other forum, a Diplomacy game here, STGOD 2k6 (though I'd call that a coma), and the RPG game in the Divine Salamis forum has made no progress since I joined.

I suppose it balances out the great luck I have in real life.

The armoured crusier represented a new philosophy- "stronger than fast, faster than strong." In other words, a vessel which could outrun what it couldn't outfight.

In case I'm not the only one who was wondering "wait isn't that a battle cruiser?" I did some reasearch, battlecruisers are what made armoured cruisers obsolete in the post-dreadnought era.

[Crossroads Inc.]

ANy idea when we will get details on resources or Industry? Should we plan out what are nations may have or wait for more instruction? I'm really eager to get into this, it loosk to be a lot of fun.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Raises hand.

I am willing to play. Any opening for some criminal mastermind? (ala a certain "Professor" or a "Indian Pirate", or say that guy that vincent price played that had the great big airship?, or Max Rhomar's "Menece from the East"

[Jalinth]

The armoured crusier represented a new philosophy- "stronger than fast, faster than strong." In other words, a vessel which could outrun what it couldn't outfight.

In case I'm not the only one who was wondering "wait isn't that a battle cruiser?" I did some reasearch, battlecruisers are what made armoured cruisers obsolete in the post-dreadnought era.

Thanks for the research. I was kind of wondering about the quote since it is very close to that of a battlecruiser - can destroy anything smaller than it, and run from anything stronger.

Of course, this was the theory. The reality is that the designs didn't always meet the requirements - either the battlecruiser wasn't noticeably stronger than a heavy cruiser, or wasn't fast enough to easily outrun battleships/dreadnoughts. But since we are dealing with a game, my armoured cruisers will work to spec.

[Thirdfain]

OK, the next step:

Everyone needs to fill out a basic nation description, with the following elements:

1. Brief history and description of your nation- it's origin, government system, and so on.

2. Location- take the map and highlight whichever region you've chosen as your own.

After everyone has done that, I'll assign natural resources randomly. No-one will have all the resources necessary, and trade and colonialism will be very important.

Preliminary resource list:

Military/Industrial:
Coal: Vital for making steam warships and steel, and railroads.
Iron: Vital for building armoured warships, making steel
Sulfur: Vital for training troops and making weapons

Growth/Industrial:
Food: Excess food, either fish or crops- vital for furnishing growth
Cotton: Vital for manufacturing clothing and other civilian necessities
Rare Metals: Vital for research and industrialisation

Luxury:
Silks: Necessary for producing luxury clothing
Spices: Expensive, good export.
Opium: Highly addictive, very valuable crop to sell.

Each resource will have a specific effect on some aspect of the game mechanics, still working it out for now...

[Thirdfain]

Raises hand.

I am willing to play. Any opening for some criminal mastermind? (ala a certain "Professor" or a "Indian Pirate", or say that guy that vincent price played that had the great big airship?, or Max Rhomar's "Menece from the East"

Absolutely!

Such fantastical characters are definitely welcome.

[Thirdfain]

Unprotected Cruisers

Unprotected cuisers were produced for colonial duty- they were cheap, moderately armed, and could make good speed. Their lack of armour made them vulnerable in combat with heavier warships, but they could be built out of cheaper materials, generally wood and thin sheets of steel.

Historical Example:
"Alfonso XII"-class OCR
(Spain)
Photograph
Schematic

Summary: The Cruiser Alfonso XII was built for colonial purposes (intended for high speed and moderate armament) and she was not suited for action against heavily armed vessels. However, vessels of her type were useful in crushing the Tagalog revolt in the Spanish Phillipines.
Commissioned: 1891
Length: 84 meters
Beam: 13 m
Draft: 6.7 m
Displacement: 3,900 tonnes
Compliment: 390
Speed: 15kts
Range: 4,000 nautical miles
Primary Armament: 6x 16cm guns
Secondary Armament: 3x57mm guns
2x42mm guns
Tertiary Armament: 6x37mm quick-firers
3 gatling guns
Torpedos: five tubes

Torpedoboat Destroyers

The invention of the "Whitehead" nautical torpedo was a shock to naval planners across the world, as it allowed small, fast torpedo-boats to be effective over the largest, most expensive battleships. Specialist small craft designed to fend off torpedo-boats would be the fore-runners of modern destroyers. Unlike modern destroyers, however, they had limited fuel reserves, and had to stay close to larger fleet units or basing facilities. These vessels were fleet escorts, not independent operators like some modern destroyers.

Torpedoboat Destroyers carried their own torpedo tubes as well, making them effective against capital ships; however, they were not as fast or as cheap as the torpedoboats of the time.

Historical Example:
"Destructor"-class TBD
(Spain)
Photograph
Summary: The first torpedo-boat destroyer, the Destructor was able to make astonishing speed even in the open ocean, and carried armament much more powerful than that of enemy torpedo-boats along with it's own torpedo tubes.
Commissioned: 1887
Length: 58.7 meters
Beam: 7.63 m
Draft: 2.90 m
Compliment: 80
Speed: 22 kts
Range: 5,500 nautical miles
Armament: 1x90mm gun
4x57mm guns
2x37mm quick-firers
Torpedos: 3 tubes

Torpedo Boats

The invention of the "Whitehead" nautical torpedo was a shock to naval planners across the world, as it allowed small, fast torpedo-boats to be effective over the largest, most expensive battleships. The threat of torpedo-boats to large capital ships led to a huge number of precautions being taken- ships in harbour would be draped in heavy netting to stop explosions against the hull, chains would be draped across the entrances to port, and patrols would be constant. In the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905, Japanese torpedo-boat attacks late at night succeeded in destroying Russian battleships in port.

Historical Example:
"Storen"-class TB
(Kingdom of Denmark)
Photograph
Summary: The Storen was a standard torpedo-boat of her era- fast, short-ranged, not particularly seaworthy, and armed with a powerful selection of torpedo tubes which allowed her to threaten even the largest battleships if she could get close enough.
Commissioned: September, 1888
Length: 42 meters
Beam: 4.21 m
Draft: 2.21 m
Displacement: 117 tons
Compliment: 20
Speed: 21 kts
Armament: 2x37mm quick-firers
Torpedos: 4x38cm tubes, 2 above-water, 2 below

-edit-

TOO ADD:
1. Armed Sloops
2. Gunboats
3. River Gunboats

Any other common ship-classes I'm missing?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

A Brief History of my Royal Kingdom will be forthcoming this evening. Now, whether it will be on the Horn of Africa or Ceylon is still being worked out...

EDIT: Ceylon it is. However, there's no end in sight to my writer's block. Fuck it, since this is certain to happen in the STGOD, I should probably pull out now.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I already have my history and whatnot worked out, posted an early draft at the bottom of the first page. Will post a complete History and INformation once we get Resources passed out.

[Adrian Laguna]

After everyone has done that, I'll assign natural resources randomly. No-one will have all the resources necessary, and trade and colonialism will be very important.

Each resource will have a specific effect on some aspect of the game mechanics, still working it out for now...

Umm, define "random". I suppose you won't follow historical lines, since then everyone would be short on iron and coal. Exept for a few lucky bastards who... wait, you didn't mention petroleum. Why not?

Also, I ask again: Thirdfain, will you be running the NPC nations?

To clarify, I mean in the same sense that we run our own nations. Actively with goals and objectives, as opposed to passively reacting to whatever players do.

[Thirdfain]

Random, as in, I'll roll dice. There will be a fixed amount of each resource depending on how many players we have. In the end, there won't be enough resources in the territory of all nations at start (you can find new resources with colonialism and exploration, also random.)

I will run the NPC nations as NPC nations- they will not generally be aggressive- without goals and objectives.

[Adrian Laguna]

Any other common ship-classes I'm missing?

Not quite "common", but submarines were in use in this era. It will be a couple of decades before they're useful as offensive weapons, but they can be used defensively in coastal seas.

I will run the NPC nations as NPC nations- they will not generally be aggressive- without goals and objectives.

I'm not sure whether to be glad or dissapointed. An expansionist Nippon would be interesting to deal with, and scary too.

[Jalinth]

Question for the background. If we list empires or other events that happen off of the map area (Eastern Australia and New Zealand), does this cause you any problems or are these areas "off map" for the entire game.

I don't want to write a background about a powerful but isolationist Maori empire (explaining why I'm settling around Perth in the first place) if this causes game headaches later.

[Thirdfain]

Yes, filling in the backstory is encouraged!