Borg vs. GE with a twist.

[vivftp]

Is there some reason you can't bother quoting the particular idea in question? This is not the first time you've done this.

Well it is a fairly large post, but if you insist:

Hmm... First thing's first. I know I'm not going to win any actual battle with SW forces. That's why I'd be sneaky.

The first thing I will do is develop cybernetic implants that aren't so painfully obvious. These will go to my 'infiltration' drones, who will be almost totally autonomous, and instructed to learn as much about the SW galaxy as possible.

Next, I will set up shop on some uninhabited planets. On these planets, I will start mass producing high-quality prosthetic organs for sale on the galactic market.

I will also begin mass cloning operations. The Borg aren't going to go running around assimilating people any more, because that will get them in hot water with SW forces, those who, at the moment, have an incredible firepower edge.

I will borg up my clones, making them stronger, faster, more accurate... y'know, all the things that the Borg aren't. They'll also be given competently designed vehicles and weaponry, and they will have intelligent tactics downloaded into their brains. These clones will be my defense forces, and I'll also hire them out as expert land fighters.

Fast forward until I've got enough money to purchase myself a modest SW tech base. Now, I will improve the quality of my products, with an eye towards driving the competition out of business. Soon, BorgCorp implants will be the only implants worth mentioning. In fact, there will be no need for invasive surgery. Just a nanite injection, and away we go. -I'm sure that will add to their popularity.

To go along with the increase in quality, I will also run an enormous PR campaign, tailored to the youths of every core world, in order to convince them that BorgCo implants are the next 'hip' thing.

My ultimate aim is to subvert SW society from within, with Borg implants and nanites being hailed as wonder-machines, and afforded the same commonality as tatoos, ear piercings, and such are today. Eventually, it will only be a few holdouts who don't have BorgCorp electronics in them... and that is when the nanites in the implants come alive, assimilating much of the population with one fell swoop. The rest can be assimilated at my leisure.

Oh, I'll also offer anyone free bodymods, free lodging, etc etc, if they 'work' for the company. When they sign the papers, I'll whisk them to the assimilation chambers. I imagine a lot of impoverished farmers on outer rim worlds taking advantage of this. Of course, they won't be getting the ultra-invasive Strogg-like implants that the soldier-drones get, and they probably won't even get what a normal ST-borg drone would get. They'd get enough to appear normal. See, secrecy of my plan is paramount until its execution, and I don't want nosy relatives wondering what I've done to their relatives.

One of my key products will be brain upgrades. I figure that in SW, like real life, there aren't many people with a photographic memory. Now, they can have one for a reasonably low sum and no invasive surgery.

"BorgCo: Better, stronger, faster." -The catchphrase.

I'm merely curious to get others opinions on the viability of this sort of plan since it appears to be one of the more well thought out plans from that thread.

[Hawkwings]

They'd face stiff competition from the SW corporations... but then again, you've got a long timeframe to work with. Start small, branch out, in a few generations you might have a large enough market share that people start taking you seriously. *Then* you can run a PR campaign.

Isn't the borg queen basically immortal?

[vivftp]

They'd face stiff competition from the SW corporations... but then again, you've got a long timeframe to work with. Start small, branch out, in a few generations you might have a large enough market share that people start taking you seriously. *Then* you can run a PR campaign.

Isn't the borg queen basically immortal?

What the Borg Queen is, I don't think any of us really know. She may be some sort of program the Borg can copy when the need arises and they select members of a specific species (125, IIRC) to serve as host body. Anyways, I'm sure there're many theories as to what the Queen is.

Also, this is something I've been meaning to ask - what sort of nanotechnology do groups in the SW galaxy have? Can anyone list a few traits to compare to what the Borg will have to offer?

[Shadowtraveler]

I make some money, upgrade my tech, and become one of those quirky, out-of-the-way races.

[Stark]

as if I was suggesting that's how someone would steal the tech!

Ahem.

Also, this is Star Wars. How long until someone just steals your tech and breaks your monopoly?

This amazing technology was an 'example'. For instance, I contend that Borg data security is poor, and cite an example of them filling their bodies with chips full of easily-retrievable, sensitive information. You know that thing in Sheps sig, about not taking the post into combat? Yeah, that's 'data security'. Borg have fuck all, and your entire scenario is based on retaining exclusive knowledge of a particular idea - something their characteristics make VERY unlikely.

But hey, you'll just have your NOT THE BORG AT ALL(tm) Borg do something else, because you've stripped down their entire culture and rebuilt it in your compensating image. WOWZORS, the Borg have a chance in... no. No they don't. Nice vendetta you've got going there, though. Don't like my posts? Don't respond.

[Darth Wong]

Nothing in the OP indicates that you even know which galaxy you're in, much less something specifying that you know anything about the Empire. Ergo, even an intelligent leader would probably just tell the Borg to start colonizing planets and building an industrial base, whereupon we get quickly discovered, try to do the usual "resistance is futile" thing, and get ass-raped when the fleet discovers that there's a bunch of space vampires running around.

[vivftp]

Nothing in the OP indicates that you even know which galaxy you're in, much less something specifying that you know anything about the Empire. Ergo, even an intelligent leader would probably just tell the Borg to start colonizing planets and building an industrial base, whereupon we get quickly discovered, try to do the usual "resistance is futile" thing, and get ass-raped when the fleet discovers that there's a bunch of space vampires running around.

Good point. I originally intended you to know it's the SW galaxy you're in, but since I didn't include it in the OP, that's out. So from the perspective of anyone making a scenario, you're dumped into a random region of space and don't immediately know it's the SW galaxy. You'll have to figure those details out for yourself.

[Ted C]

Nothing in the OP indicates that you even know which galaxy you're in, much less something specifying that you know anything about the Empire. Ergo, even an intelligent leader would probably just tell the Borg to start colonizing planets and building an industrial base, whereupon we get quickly discovered, try to do the usual "resistance is futile" thing, and get ass-raped when the fleet discovers that there's a bunch of space vampires running around.

Good point. I originally intended you to know it's the SW galaxy you're in, but since I didn't include it in the OP, that's out. So from the perspective of anyone making a scenario, you're dumped into a random region of space and don't immediately know it's the SW galaxy. You'll have to figure those details out for yourself.

If we assume the Borg can pick up Imperial communications (which is not a given), then the sheer volume of comm traffic in the SW galaxy should tip off the Collective that there is an advanced, widespread culture in the galaxy. I know that I would try to monitor that comm traffic for a while before doing anything rash.

[Darth Wong]

How much comm traffic would there be if you're in an uninhabited part of the galaxy?

[Ted C]

How much comm traffic would there be if you're in an uninhabited part of the galaxy?

If the signals are broadcast rather than precisely directed (not a given), there could be quite a bit. The Imperial civilization is quite widespread, so even if I'm in a thin spot, there are probably Imperial-controlled areas around it. There should be comm traffic going through. Of course, there's not guarantee that the Borg have the appropriate technology to detect it, either.

[OmegaGuy]

Well if I was dumped in an unknown galaxy as the Borg, I certainly wouldn't go out guns blazing bent on conquest. For all I know I could be in the Culture's galaxy or something. The first thing I would do is work on better designs. For all the Borg talk of efficiency, their technology is anything but. The cube design might be good for intimidation, but that's basically all it's good for. I'd make ships with smaller target profiles, less volume, more armor, etc. Give drones ranged weapons and actually program them to fight competently. Also give them armor too because it would be folly to rely only on their adaptive capabilities, as was made evident in First Contact. Finally put to use all of that technology the Borg have assimilated, which is apparently sitting around somewhere in a database collecting dust.

Then begin with the scouting, exploring, etc.

[Darth Wong]

How much comm traffic would there be if you're in an uninhabited part of the galaxy?

If the signals are broadcast rather than precisely directed (not a given), there could be quite a bit.

Not if there are no network repeater nodes nearby, and if they're in some unused backwater I don't see why anybody would have ever built any.

[l33telboi]

I guess the question is a bit of a no-brainer since everybody keeps answering the same thing. So yes, the best thing would be to stay undetected, assimilate a couple of low level planets and wait untill your cubes are on par with the SW-Verse.

Heck, continue this low buildup as long as you can, so that when the Empire notices you, you already have curbstomping abilities.

On a side note: I can understand the "We are the Borg, surrender your ships..." thing when they face opponents that shouldn't be able to even scratch them, like the Federation. But one of my major gripes with Voyager was that they seemed to continue this even when faced with superior opponents, like 8472. What the hell were the writers thinking? An entire race designed to adapt, and yet, they seem to be unable to cope with the simplest rules even animals live by, different strategies for different opponents.

[brianeyci]

I am not sure what the Borg could have done to 8472, who offered no quarter. They did try something different.. sending a whole fleet against one 8472 ship and hoping they could assimilate it.

A better criticism of the Borg would be why not use ranged weapons. What's really stupid is in the Star Trek universe there is such a thing called stun. You stun your opponent, then bring him over and assimilate. You don't even need darts or clouds or anything... just use phasers. I got Picard, because he was a high value target. But if you're going to make a whole race based on capturing the enemy alive, at the very least think of ways to capture them more intelligent than zombie walking. Did anybody predict the Borg would turn into space vampires from BOBW? I sure didn't. When the Borg were going for Data and Worf in BOBW I, I knew if the Borg got their hands on Worf they would kill him.

[NecronLord]

But if you're going to make a whole race based on capturing the enemy alive, at the very least think of ways to capture them more intelligent than zombie walking.

They do. Normally they just beam people up Protocol Five - stripping them of any weapons, and stick them. This is highly effective. They zombie walk when we see them, because they're trying to board and capture vessels. And I will note that they're capable of doing this with one drone in a jeffries tube. Sure, they're dumb, but everyone else, not issuing tommie guns and blowing their brains out, is dumber - seriously. How often have they won by sheer luck, and how often have they actually beat the borg by being superior tacticians? Yeah, thought so.

Did anybody predict the Borg would turn into space vampires from BOBW?

When I saw BoBW I thought them pretty pathetic. What with having guards with no guns for Locutus. Of course, their suckyness was established right there in Q Who when they fail spectacularly to react to armed intruders pointing guns at them.

[Darth Fanboy]

When I saw BoBW I thought them pretty pathetic. What with having guards with no guns for Locutus. Of course, their suckyness was established right there in Q Who when they fail spectacularly to react to armed intruders pointing guns at them.

Wholehearted agreement here. That whole "Oh wow they're so tough they don't even care that people are running around their ship freely and shooting them!" sort of thing never stuck to me. Quite comperful compared to the Federation yes, but also rather stupid.

[vivftp]

Wholehearted agreement here. That whole "Oh wow they're so tough they don't even care that people are running around their ship freely and shooting them!" sort of thing never stuck to me. Quite comperful compared to the Federation yes, but also rather stupid.

Uhh, the Borg will ignore you if you're running about their ship, but if you start shooting them or shooting equiptment they'll come after your arse.

[NecronLord]

Uhh, the Borg will ignore you if you're running about their ship, but if you start shooting them or shooting equiptment they'll come after your arse.

And? You're armed intruders. Even termites are smarter than that. MUCH smarter than that.

[Darth Fanboy]

Thank you vivftp for completely missing the exaggeration, I was still undecided on my opinion of you. Even WITH the exaggeration all the Borg do when they detect you shooting at them is simply lumber on in like George Romero Zombies, no use of transporters or ranged weaponry, nothing other than the whole "Resistance is Futile" bullshit. A good concept for an enemy wasted.

Ghetto edit to previous post: Please excuse the horrible "comperful" typo, I meant ot say "powerful".

[Ted C]

But if you're going to make a whole race based on capturing the enemy alive, at the very least think of ways to capture them more intelligent than zombie walking.

Normally they just beam people up Protocol Five - stripping them of any weapons, and stick them.

Please name the occasion when they actually used this tactic, because among First Contact, all the episodes of TNG involving the Borg, and all the episodes of VOY that I saw involving the Borg, they never did any such thing.

[Bounty]

Nothing. Data quickly turns and heads for the door.
There's a metallic SCRAPE above him and he looks up --

53 TWO BORG 53

are climbing to the ceiling like two spiders ready to
pounce. One of them has Porter and appears to be
inserting some horrible Borg device into his head.
Before Data can react, the second Borg suddenly lunges
at Data.

RIKER'S COM VOICE
Worf? Is something wrong?

WORF
Something is very wrong,
Commander. We're falling back.

Worf gives hand signals for the team to move out. But
just as they start to fall back, everything happens at
once.

93 BORG DRONES 93

EXPLODE OUT OF THE WALLS, CEILING AND FLOOR! What
follows is a BLUR of action happening so fast and
furious we never get a true sense of what's happening.

A flurry of violence and motion and images:

-- A snarling Borg face -- half-human, half-machine, a
cybernetic nightmare.

-- Strange, bio-mechanical WEAPONS extruding from Borg
bodies, RIPPING into human flesh.

-- A crewmember PULLED into a bed of machinery.

WORF
Fire at will!

But the Borg are already on top of them. It's a brutal
fight in close quarters with no escape.

Phasers and Borg lasers lighting up the corridor,
bodies flying through the air... utter chaos and
terror. The fight goes hand to hand and Worf sees that
they don't have a chance...

WORF
(throwing off a Borg)
Fall back!

The team starts backpedaling, FIRING as they go...but
the Borg are unstoppable now -- they put up personal
force fields to protect themselves.

WORF
Go, go, GO!

Worf pushes his men down the corridor. Everyone turns
and RUNS like hell. Worf bends down and grabs a
frightened Lieutenant by the collar, pulling him along.

94 VARIOUS SHOTS: 94

-- The team running through the corridors, SHOOTING
behind them at the pursuing Borg, to no effect...

-- Two of the Borg raise their arms and FIRE LASER
BURSTS out of their arms and wrists, taking DOWN two
Security Guards. Worf sees them fall but there's no
time to go back.

95 INT. DECK 46 - CORRIDOR 95

As Worf's team starts CLIMBING UP and out the dark
hatch in the floor seen earlier.

They make adjustments to their weapons just as the
bulkhead doors EXPLODE INWARD in a blinding flash. The
guards shield themselves against the fire and debris...
looks up just in time to see the swift and lethal
shapes of the BORG jumping through the smashed
bulkhead, racing down the corridor toward them. The
guards FIRE, and when they do the PHASER BLASTS
alternate color -- red, blue, green, purple, orange --
a staccato of colors as the phasers shift frequency.

The phaser blasts TAKE DOWN a few of the BORG... but
then we see the distinctive PERSONAL FORCEFIELDS of the
other Borg begin to compensate, and the phasers no
longer affect them.

GUARD #1
That's it, they've adjusted --
fall back!

They turn to run but BORG PHASER FIRE lances out from
the Borg soldiers and RIPS them apart.

How's that for Borg behaviour? Not so pathetic now, are they?

...too bad this was never filmed. FC, early draft.

[Ted C]

Wholehearted agreement here. That whole "Oh wow they're so tough they don't even care that people are running around their ship freely and shooting them!" sort of thing never stuck to me. Quite comperful compared to the Federation yes, but also rather stupid.

Uhh, the Borg will ignore you if you're running about their ship, but if you start shooting them or shooting equiptment they'll come after your arse.

Yes, allowing armed intruders to move freely around your ship, studying your technology, possibly even planting bombs for timed detonation (no immediate damage = no Borg response) is SO much more intelligent capturing or killing them on sight.

[NecronLord]

How's that for Borg behaviour? Not so pathetic now, are they?

...too bad this was never filmed. FC, early draft.

No, but highly rediculous, given that this behaviour would heavily contradict their previous passive nature.

[vivftp]

You'll note I was correcting Darth Fanboys statement when he said:

"Wholehearted agreement here. That whole "Oh wow they're so tough they don't even care that people are running around their ship freely and shooting them!" sort of thing never stuck to me. Quite comperful compared to the Federation yes, but also rather stupid."

The Borg do in fact care when people are running around their ship shooting them.

[Darth Fanboy]

Please name the occasion when they actually used this tactic, because among First Contact, all the episodes of TNG involving the Borg, and all the episodes of VOY that I saw involving the Borg, they never did any such thing.

BoBW is the only example I can think of where they abducted someone in a manner similar to this way, but it is still similar to the tactics they used to get Picard.