Scientists trying to find a cure for homosexuality

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Zac Naloen
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Scientists trying to find a cure for homosexuality

Post by Zac Naloen »

http://www.stopanimaltests.com/f-gaysheep.asp
In addition to being blacklisted as one of PETA’s picks for the 10 Worst Laboratories for conducting crude and useless experiments on monkeys, Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) is now facing public condemnation from animal- and gay-rights advocates and scientific experts for its ill-conceived “gay sheep” experiments.

At the heart of these multi-million-dollar experiments, which are funded by taxpayers through the year 2008, is the goal of identifying a biological basis for homosexuality in sheep in an effort to “cure” homosexuality in humans. OHSU experimenter Charles Roselli is killing scores of sheep and cutting open the brains of rams he calls “male-oriented” (homosexual) in an attempt to find the hormonal mechanisms behind homosexual tendencies, so that they can subsequently be changed.

Roselli is also working with experimenter Frederick Stormshak of Oregon State University (OSU), who has surgically installed an estrogen implant in the bodies of rams in an effort “to restore tissue levels of estrogen comparable to those of heterosexual rams and affect sexual behavior accordingly.”

In a March 5, 2004, news release issued by OHSU, the university admitted that Roselli and Stormshak would “like to know whether sexual preferences can be altered by manipulating the prenatal hormone environment, for instance by using drugs to prevent the actions of androgen in the fetal sheep brain.”

Equally disturbing is the experimenters’ stated intention to apply their findings in sheep to humans. This is highlighted in Roselli’s application for public funding from the National Institutes of Health: “The [sheep] experiments proposed in this application will furnish important information that is needed to formulate and test novel hypotheses about the biological basis of sexual orientation in higher mammals including humans”. Roselli goes on to note in one of his published journal articles that “this research also has broader implications for understanding the development and control of sexual motivation and mate selection across mammalian species, including humans.”

This is not only a needless slaughter of animals and an ethically indefensible experiment, but has also been condemned by experts on scientific grounds. Dr. Malgosia Cegielski, a Portland-based clinical psychologist, calls Roselli’s gay-sheep experiment “frivolous” and “frightening.” She says: “I don’t see any clinical utility or human benefit with what he’s doing. … The gene expression and biological differences at a cellular level between [nonhuman] animals and humans is so huge. To draw conclusions between animal behavior [and] humans is a joke.”

Ignoring the obvious dubious source (I found this link on another site) all i can say is what the hell?

This is government funded as well.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

So we're trying to find the innate, biological impetus for making certain 100% conscious lifestyle choices now? Apparently, the only thing the opponents of gay rights can agree on is they don't like gayness.
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Post by Stravo »

The far more intriguing question is if there was a cure how many in the gay community would take it? I suspect the lure of "fitting in" and not having to be in the closet anymore would be irresistable to many.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Stravo wrote:The far more intriguing question is if there was a cure how many in the gay community would take it? I suspect the lure of "fitting in" and not having to be in the closet anymore would be irresistable to many.
That's absolutely true. Not to name names, but I know for a fact that some of us here would. I wouldn't, but as a bisexual, I'm dubious that it's even possible. There's nothing wrong with the "ZOMG BOOBS!" region of my brain.
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Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Stravo wrote:The far more intriguing question is if there was a cure how many in the gay community would take it? I suspect the lure of "fitting in" and not having to be in the closet anymore would be irresistable to many.
If you define "gay community" as everyone who is gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered, you are probably right. There are millions of closet cases in the United States who are repressed, lonely and just miserable from their conflicting feelings between their sexual urges and their own homophobia. However, if you define "gay community" as those who associate themselves with the gay community (which implies they are open to themselves at the very least), you'll find a smaller group of people who are willing to change their sexual orientation. The most liberating and joyous life experiences have come from the very thing this "cure" would be made to destroy.
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Post by Pick »

I'm not part of any homosexual community, but I can confidently say that I am happy as I currently am*.

*Surrounded by horny college girls. 8)
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Post by CaptJodan »

For all that is holy, I hope they don't find it. Yeah, ok, I'm not trilled about being gay or anything, but this is far bigger than just me. I would not want this to go through if it meant what would come of it, mainly couples being split apart and a new level of bigotry and hate from the right that would now see this as a cureable disease (thus anyone who didn't take the treatment would be even more hated).

I can hardly see how a cure can come from people already born, anyway. It seems to me as if it's something more complicated than taking a pill every day. More like actually the way the brain is structured. Thus a more genetic method might be needed, which, if they found a cure, would make a kind of "last generation of homosexuals" type of scenario (if the treatment was inexpensive enough to cover all walks of life, which we know wouldn't be the case for some time).
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Post by Molyneux »

For fuck's sake...

That 'article' was lifted nearly verbatim from the PETA website.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... _sheep.php
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_ne ... es_th.html

The research in question claims the lives of a whopping 18 sheep a year (oh, no!), while the meatpacking industry kills more than four MILLION.

And I'd think that the idea of homosexuality being genetically-linked (rather than merely a lifestyle choice, as certain religious folk are dead-set on believing no matter the evidence) would lead to research seeing exactly WHAT kind of genetic link there is.


Finding the causes behind homosexuality (said research, by the way, showing that homosexuality is a naturally-occurring phenomenon) is a far cry from attempting to 'cure' it in humans.

Fuck PETA for misrepresenting legitimate research...on second thought, fuck PETA on general principles. Didn't we know they were bastards before this?
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Post by Cao Cao »

People Eating The Animals isn't the must trustworthy of sources, true.

I would hope that it is merely scientific curiosity into the existance of biological causes for homosexuality.
Because the alternative is a bunch of nutjobs with a 19th century mentality, which'd just piss me off. :evil:
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Post by Molyneux »

Cao Cao wrote:People Eating The Animals isn't the must trustworthy of sources, true.

I would hope that it is merely scientific curiosity into the existance of biological causes for homosexuality.
Because the alternative is a bunch of nutjobs with a 19th century mentality, which'd just piss me off. :evil:
Quoting the second scienceblog I linked:
The Next Hurrah wrote:It seemed strange to me that the only evidence PETA gave for their claim that "Roselli has made it very clear that he intends to use the findings of his experiments to 'cure' humans next" was a completely innocuous statement from a grant application: "This research also has broader implications for understanding the development and control of sexual motivation and mate selection across mammalian species, including humans." I don't see anything about curing there -- I see "understanding" but I don't see curing. It sounds like normal grant boilerplate to me (good luck getting money from NIH without saying your work is relevant to humans).

But, like I said, I didn't know Dr. Roselli -- so I asked him. I wrote, "Do you think homosexuality is something that can or should be 'cured'?" His reply: "No," he said. "And I find it appalling and offensive that PETA has suggested that I and my collaborators do."
And yes, I know that blogs aren't exactly reliable sources...but this guy doesn't have any obvious motive to be anything less than objective, and the original "article" in this thread was not even close to an actual news article.
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Post by Lord Poe »

How would such a "cure" work, unless its a major brainwashing effort? I'm trying to think of how a "Hetero Cure" could possibly have a chance to work on me.

It's not just about who you want to fuck. Being heterosexual is deep down, hard wired. I can't speak for homosexuality, but I expect it's the same.
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Post by Stark »

I don't see how it'd work either. If you gave my flaming homosexual friends a 'cure', I'm not seeing how it's going to reverse more than a decade of self-identity. It's not like Liam is going to put down the curling iron and jump into some stubbies and start laying bricks.

Maybe their plan is to 'innoculate' kids against 'zomg teh gayze' so that by the time they hit puberty they're immune? I'm not seeing how that's going to work, either.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

The people who believe that sexual orientation is 100% biological hypothesize a hormonal imbalance early in life that leads to abnormal psychosexual development during puberty. Although your heterosexual urges are just as hormone-driven, you have the "correct" orientation. So if we could calibrate according to heterosexuals of the appropriate gender, adjust a queer sheep's hormone levels to be like that of any good, God-fearing ram, you could turn it straight.

Of course, the massive and ill-concieved assumption that there are no environmental factors whatsoever is so huge you can see it from space. My distaste for horseradish isn't choice, but there's no biological basis for it either. Frankly, I don't buy it for a minute.
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Post by Superman »

Darth Raptor wrote:The people who believe that sexual orientation is 100% biological hypothesize a hormonal imbalance early in life that leads to abnormal psychosexual development during puberty. Although your heterosexual urges are just as hormone-driven, you have the "correct" orientation. So if we could calibrate according to heterosexuals of the appropriate gender, adjust a queer sheep's hormone levels to be like that of any good, God-fearing ram, you could turn it straight.

Of course, the massive and ill-concieved assumption that there are no environmental factors whatsoever is so huge you can see it from space. My distaste for horseradish isn't choice, but there's no biological basis for it either. Frankly, I don't buy it for a minute.
I believe the majority now think that it's due to both biology (as in the genes) and environment. The fact of the brain's plasticity during developmental years is undeniable, and any event which disrupts this normal development has severe consequences in the form of, among many things, personality disorders later in life. This model supposes that certain childhood traumas disrupt the individual's normal psychosexual development, "rewires" the brain, and results in sexual attraction toward, among other things (paraphelias or 'fetishes,' for example), members of the same gender. There do certainly seem to exist homosexual individuals who have experienced severe forms of sexual abuse as children, and some studies have shown higher rates of childhood abuse when compared to heterosexuals. Of course, that's just a correlation and might mean nothing at all.

Now, this is not to say that there can be no genetic component to this. Some studies have shown that some twins may be more likely to be homosexual. Does that have to do with a common environment or does it lay in the genes?

I don't think a simple answer exists. It seems like it's probably a combination of the two (certain events in childhood may potentiate the predetermined genetic capacity for this), or, in some people, just plain biology (as in genetic). I think lots of gay people were just born gay.

Gender Identity Disorder (homosexuality), despite high levels of opposition, is a mental disorder that is still listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders to this day. Freud supported the notion that it had to do with an altered libido during developmental years, but he also stated that it could never be classified as a mental illness and to do so would be cruel and unfair. Guess these guys forgot.

This is very controversial, and what these people have come up with is by no means representative of all the professionals in the field. I actually know a doctor who is a board certified urologist and plastic surgeon (one of only a few in the States) who performs gender reassignment, or sex changes, weekly.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

What happens if they end up finding a cure?

I can see alot of parents taking there kids to get diagnosed and 'cured' if they have 'teh gay!'
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Post by Lord Poe »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:What happens if they end up finding a cure?
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Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Lord Poe wrote:How would such a "cure" work, unless its a major brainwashing effort? I'm trying to think of how a "Hetero Cure" could possibly have a chance to work on me.

It's not just about who you want to fuck. Being heterosexual is deep down, hard wired. I can't speak for homosexuality, but I expect it's the same.
Yes, it's the same. That is not to say that fluidity of sexual orientation does not exist. There have been documented cases where sexual orientation have changed over time. This happens more frequently with women than with men. So gay or straight, men in generally typically stay the way they are for their entire lives. Of course, we should also keep in mind that cases of such fluidity is very rare and we are talking about a very small group of people. Most people who are gay, straight, bisexual or whatever stay that way for the rest of their lives.

Also, when defining sexual orientation, I have found that men and women use different primary variables. Men usually rate sexual/visual attraction as their primary variable that defines their sexual orientation. Women, on the other hand, tend to rate emotional attachment higher than their male counterparts. Since visual attraction is more gender-focused, I wonder if that can somehow explain why sexual orientation fluidity is found more common in women than in men.
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Post by Cao Cao »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:What happens if they end up finding a cure?

I can see alot of parents taking there kids to get diagnosed and 'cured' if they have 'teh gay!'
If people started dicking around with that I for one would be pissed.
I'm heterosexual. But I view this from the standpoint that nobody's going to tell me or mess with my hormones to force me into being attracted to what the moral majority wants. So why should they do it with anyone else, no matter what their sexual orientation?

What next? Hey I know, let's cure left-handed people! After all right-handed is the norm right? Everybody needs to be the same!
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Post by Molyneux »

Superman wrote:Gender Identity Disorder (homosexuality), despite high levels of opposition, is a mental disorder that is still listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders to this day.
That's absolutely right, except that, well, Gender Identity Disorder is NOT homosexuality.

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/rekers.html
http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/Disord ... rIden.html
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Post by Lord Woodlouse »

Molyneux wrote:
Superman wrote:Gender Identity Disorder (homosexuality), despite high levels of opposition, is a mental disorder that is still listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders to this day.
That's absolutely right, except that, well, Gender Identity Disorder is NOT homosexuality.

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/rekers.html
http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/Disord ... rIden.html
...and even that is a controversial listing. I'm sure some would regard it as a "body disorder" rather than a mental one.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Come on, admit it. The idea of someone injecting Fred Phelps with a drug that makes him gay is funny as hell.
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Post by Lord Woodlouse »

Darth Wong wrote:Come on, admit it. The idea of someone injecting Fred Phelps with a drug that makes him gay is funny as hell.
I think a TS injection would have far more entertaining consequences. :)
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

It'd probably make him even more insane, since he would be repressing homosexuality in addition to all his other weird tendencies.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Phelps is a closet pillow biter anyway. He was on some talk show and the host or guest asked if he ever had gay sex. He wouldn't answer.
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Post by Cao Cao »

Darth Raptor wrote:Phelps is a closet pillow biter anyway. He was on some talk show and the host or guest asked if he ever had gay sex. He wouldn't answer.
True, many times the biggest bigots are people who repress their own urges and convince themselves it's dirty because of religious indoctrination or just base intolerance.
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