Borg vs. GE with a twist.

[vivftp]

Hilarious! Is this what 'can't take criticism' looks like?

WHAT CRITICISM?!?! From me correcting someone on an error they made and getting into an argument about it?

You can keep badmouthing the thread itself all you want - I don't really care. I think NecronLord said it best earlier though:

You don't like the thread. Got it. Just don't fucking post in it then.

Or are you going to claim I haven't been participating in this thread? Or are you going to attack the method, and not the message?

Does this look like participating in this thread?

How does it feel to be universally disregarded, but still so full of yourself? Do you see the threads you start as avenues for sterling discussion, and those many naysayers as troublemakers?

Frankly, I'd expect you to be eager to raise your level a bit.

Where's the relavency to this thread?

[Stark]

So... you're banning me from a thread because you don't like what I'm saying? What are you smoking?

By the way, I criticised your attitude. I see the pomp with which you conduct yourself around here, and I think it's both funny and sad. THAT IS A CRITICISM. If there's someone who gets less respect than DEATH around here, it's you buddy.

It's relevant because it's a response to your attitude. Do you see me kicking people out of threads when they say I'm a mean hateful man that hates everything? MAYBE I SHOULD. Or you could continue to be totally unable to talk about anything other than Star Trek.

[LordShaithis]

I have no particular attachment to this thread nor any special use for vivftp. But Stark, you're basically just being an asshole and trolling for no good reason.

[vivftp]

So... you're banning me from a thread because you don't like what I'm saying? What are you smoking?

Where in the hell did you get that from? Because I quoted a snippet from a mod?

By the way, I criticised your attitude. I see the pomp with which you conduct yourself around here, and I think it's both funny and sad. THAT IS A CRITICISM. If there's someone who gets less respect than DEATH around here, it's you buddy.

It's relevant because it's a response to your attitude. Do you see me kicking people out of threads when they say I'm a mean hateful man that hates everything? MAYBE I SHOULD. Or you could continue to be totally unable to talk about anything other than Star Trek.

You are really one to talk. Comming into this thread, bitching about why the scenario exists in the first place. Then jumping into this latest argument which doesn't involve you, acting like you have a friggin' point when you have nothing but crap to spew.

I'm not seeking your respect and I don't care very much for you. You seem to hold a very high opinion of yourself if you think I should really care what you think about me.

And once again, when did I kick you out of this thread? If you have nothing of value to say then don't say anything. Is that a hard concept to understand?

[Vympel]

If one thinks the thread is stupid, like Necronlord said, don't bloody post in it. Stark, your flaming vivftp with no other substance or argument. Insult each other till the cows come home, but don't catcall about how much you hate the other guy without actually contributing at all. The last post you made in relation to the thread topic was back on page 2.

[Ted C]

Please name the occasion when they actually used this tactic, because among First Contact, all the episodes of TNG involving the Borg, and all the episodes of VOY that I saw involving the Borg, they never did any such thing.

BoBW is the only example I can think of where they abducted someone in a manner similar to this way, but it is still similar to the tactics they used to get Picard.

In BoBW, the Borg did not beam Picard directly off the bridge of the Enterprise, disarming him en route, and then incapacitate him as soon as he materialized. They beamed drones on to the bridge of the Enterprise, and the drones subdued him and beamed back with him. No evidence of the "mass transporter assimilation" technique has ever been shown.

[NecronLord]

In BoBW, the Borg did not beam Picard directly off the bridge of the Enterprise, disarming him en route, and then incapacitate him as soon as he materialized.

Which, at least in part, I do believe I've retracted on actually reviewing the evidence, no? It's just poor writing that the people they beam up from the planet of species 10026 are about as docile and unsuspecting as sheep.

They beamed drones on to the bridge of the Enterprise, and the drones subdued him and beamed back with him.

Yes. Of course, they have evidently learnt to abduct Starfleet captains more efficiently by the time of Scorpion, when they effortlessly pluck Janeway off her bridge without having to send drones over.

No evidence of the "mass transporter assimilatioen" technique has ever been shown.

Except in Dark Frontier, where they beam up the entire population of Species 10026 and shove them into surgery chambers, after defeating their fleet. I'm not saying they're smart, indeed, Dark Frontier contains the single most egregious example of Borg stupidity ever. Where, rather than just send two cubes at Earth, they wish to deploy 'a new method of assimilation' (the bioweapon version) because Earth has proven so resistant in the past, but this is what they're seen to do in this, the only example of them actually assimilating a planet that we've got: Enter orbit, beat up the local fleet, and right after that, the borg ships are full of people, and the entire operation appears to be over in practically no time. Incidentally, disarming them en-route is also something I'd misremembered into the episode to make it seem smarter, though I would be surprised and disappointed if they didn't...

[NecronLord]

For that matter, why would anyone assume they'd beam down and zombie-shuffle in normal circumstances? They've boarded each Enterprise, and Voyager, all in exceptional circumstances. Normally, they don't board things, though, thankfully. If they actually beamed down invasion forces, it'd be very inefficient, given that they'd have to heavily outnumber the locals to prevent the locals defeating them with the skills of brisk walking. On the other hand, beaming them up is both faster, and prevents them getting away. What's more, the Borg would have to beam their victims up anyway in order to preform surgery on them, so, why the hell would they do anything other than beam up civillians and subdue them on the cube?

I mean, I know they're stupid, but let's not assume extra stupidity we've not seen from them already. After all, they're crippled enough by bad writing already, no need to add to it.

[Ted C]

Except in Dark Frontier, where they beam up the entire population of Species 10026 and shove them into surgery chambers, after defeating their fleet...

Well, why didn't you mention this one the first time? I, of course, gave up on watching Voyager before "Dark Frontier" aired, so I was not familiar with the incident.

[NecronLord]

Well, why didn't you mention this one the first time? I, of course, gave up on watching Voyager before "Dark Frontier" aired, so I was not familiar with the incident.

Err... I did. As soon as you asked for evidence, I told you about this episode. If you've not read my posts, (which were off on some points, I'll add, now that I've actually watched it) that's not my fault.

EDIT: Here is where I noticed your post, and replied. Wasn't certain about the name or details, but yes, in Dark Frontier we see how the Borg behave when their assimilations go to plan. They move in, beam the locals up to the ship, and shove them into surgery, at which point the locals start screaming.

[vivftp]

Well, why didn't you mention this one the first time? I, of course, gave up on watching Voyager before "Dark Frontier" aired, so I was not familiar with the incident.

Since you haven't kept up to data on Voyager and didn't see the episode, you can view the whole scene in the clip I posted in the middle of the third page.

[Ted C]

Well, why didn't you mention this one the first time? I, of course, gave up on watching Voyager before "Dark Frontier" aired, so I was not familiar with the incident.

Since you haven't kept up to data on Voyager and didn't see the episode, you can view the whole scene in the clip I posted in the middle of the third page.

Sorry I missed it. I'll try to look at the clip sometime when I'm not at work.

[NecronLord]

Sorry I missed it. I'll try to look at the clip sometime when I'm not at work.

You sure you want to do that? It's still pretty dumb. If you've seen the most recent Dr. Who, where the cybermen drag the characters off for much the same fate... Well, imagine that, but with borg, and stoners, only one of whom does anything but march along, not even being pushed by the Borg.

That's an idea... Maybe the giant cavities in borg ships are BONGS for the pacification of entire populations.

[vivftp]

My take on the assimilation of Species 10026 was that for the most part, they knew they were defeated and had given up all hope. Most of them had what I'd call a defeated look on their face. I mean they just had their entire civilization assraped in probably a few hours at most - that's gotta have a big toll on you.

Not to mention there's the possibility that they simply didn't know what was going to happen to them. Unless the entire population is aware of Borg assimilation and whatnot, it might be that a good number of them thought they would be taken to some sort of detention cells on their march through the Borg ships - so they didn't put up any real type of fight. Not to mention even if you do put up a fight, where are you going to go? Borg drones are likely to be far stronger than you and they're everywhere so you won't get very far until they catch you.

With that one lowely dude who did decide to run, however, we did at least have a precident for this species not being completely docile, and potentially willing to fight. I mean, we only saw a dozen or two members of the species out of 300,000. And we only saw some very small sections of the tiny Borg diamond, when there was the rest of the diamond plus 3 huge Borg cubes working these guys over. It's entirely plausible that other members of Species 10026 did put up a fight, we just didn't see it. That one guy who tried to run at least gives us a reason to think it's possible.

[Ted C]

Sorry I missed it. I'll try to look at the clip sometime when I'm not at work.

You sure you want to do that?

I'd rather watch Starship Troopers, but I'd make the sacrifice if there was a point. What I'm getting from the posts so far is that "Species 10026" put up almost no resistance once the Borg destroyed their space assets. Systematically being them up, assimilating them, and beaming them back down would be a fairly practical way to handle the assimilation of an unresisting population.

What we haven't established is the ability of the Borg to beam up a population that is vigorously resisting assimilation by using transporter countermeasures (EM fields, subspace interference, exotic particles, transport inhibitors, etc.) to keep from being beamed away against their will and arming themselves with anything available to fight any Borg they encounter, be that on the Borg ship or on the planet's surface.

Wasn't there an earlier episode in which a substantial portion of a planet's population avoided assimilation by attacking Borg simply by hiding in underground caves?

[NecronLord]

What we haven't established is the ability of the Borg to beam up a population that is vigorously resisting assimilation by using transporter countermeasures (EM fields, subspace interference, exotic particles, transport inhibitors, etc.) to keep from being beamed away against their will and arming themselves with anything available to fight any Borg they encounter, be that on the Borg ship or on the planet's surface.

On the main, I'd say 'most people in ST are too stupid for that.' Seriously, it's not as if they ever plonk a transport inhibitor net throughout their starships, even though any moron would...

Wasn't there an earlier episode in which a substantial portion of a planet's population avoided assimilation by attacking Borg simply by hiding in underground caves?

Not that I recall, though I could be wrong.

[vivftp]

On the main, I'd say 'most people in ST are too stupid for that.' Seriously, it's not as if they ever plonk a transport inhibitor net throughout their starships, even though any moron would...

When it comes to the Borg, there might be cause to wonder if such measures as transporter inhibitors would work. I mean, in Q Who the Borg cube beamed drones straight through the Enterprises shields without any issues. And in Scorpion the Borg cube beamed Janeway away through Voyagers shields without any issue.

Not that I recall, though I could be wrong.

He's referring to the VOY episode Blood Fever. Here's a snippet:


TUVOK: Your people have clearly made every effort to avoid detection by outsiders. Is it so difficult to believe that those measures were effective in our case?
ISHAN: If they had been fully effective, you wouldn't have found anything interesting enough to bring you here.
CHAKOTAY: That's something we can help you with.
ISHAN: What?
CHAKOTAY: We can show you how we detected the gallicite, so you can disguise it better. We can also help you eliminate the last traces of the ruins on the surface, so no one else will be curious about them.
ISHAN: You've seen the ruins?
CHAKOTAY: Yes. I assume the Sakari once lived there.
ISHAN: Long ago, before I wan born.
TUVOK: What happened?
ISHAN: My people never even knew who the invaders were or why they attacked. It was all over in less than an hour. Some of the colonists were fortunate enough to escape into the mines. We've lived here ever since where it's safe. If the invaders ever learned of our existence here, they might return.


Whatever steps these aliens took to hide themselves, Voyager didn't pick up any lifesigns from orbit, and tricorders didn't pick them up either.

[Bounty]

My take on the assimilation of Species 10026 was that for the most part, they knew they were defeated and had given up all hope.

Or that they were drugged after beam-up. Just pump the transporter area full of gaseous tranquilizers and you've got a perfectly docile line of cattle.

...so basically, yes, the Giant Bong Theory.

[NecronLord]

...so basically, yes, the Giant Bong Theory.

It's catching on, Oorah!

[Bounty]

...so basically, yes, the Giant Bong Theory.

It's catching on, Oorah!

"The Big Bong theory of Borg assimilation"

[NecronLord]

Maybe the stoned effect is permanant, and that's why the borg stroll leisurely towards their enemies, rather than shooting at them. Same for why thier ship-to-ship shooting is so lackluster.

[Bounty]

Maybe the stoned effect is permanant, and that's why the borg stroll leisurely towards their enemies, rather than shooting at them. Same for why thier ship-to-ship shooting is so lackluster.

And why they have lots of shiny things on their ships.
And why the Queen likes to go on and on with her budget philosophy monologues (like...we're totally...one. You know...like...I can feel your mind...).
And why there's a weird green fog everywhere in their Cubes.
And why they keep repeating the same three phrases.

...it all makes sense now. The secret to the Borg is the 420 poster in the central plexus.

[need4spd]

I would stay with my thousands of borg ships beyond the outter rim and hide. Then send out very 1-2 drones to planets to seek out technology and report back their findings. Slowly and surely evolving my many adapting borg ships to the star wars technology. Like ship hulls materials, hyperdrives, computers, communication devices, blasters, etc.

Hopefuly take over force users along the way for nice crew addictions. Live happily in the outter rim until trouble occurs and deal wtih it as best as i could. Hopefully by that time my 40,000 borg ships have evolved into a billion ships with star wars technology.