[Russian] Generic anti-Saxton bullshit

[CaptainChewbacca]

That was some rather unkind things to say in Russian, tovarisch.

Can you translate for everyone please. Or is it best that you protect us.

I think it;d be best to wait for fgalkin. My translation is a bit rusty since my grandfather died, and I'm not exactly idiomatic.

[Ghost Rider]

Just tell the translation...or stop spamming.

[Eleas]

Oh, this is grand. Another dimwit who, upon reading the word "megaton," thinks it means "unit of nuclear explosion."

Only power of explosions is maesured in TNT equivalents, other energy figured are measured in joules...

Um, just checking, but you do know that your modus operandi on other forums (which, by judging your actions here, consist of simply ignoring your opponent's points when you can't answer it with a direct lie) isn't going to fly here... right? As already mentioned, a Ton of TNT (4.2E9 Joules) is a valid unit of energy. While this can imply an explosive event, it does in fact not have to do so at all, and indeed it should be obvious from context that Mike was talking about the sheer energy output, not the explosive event in itself.

So, short answer: you're wrong, and your stubbornness marks you as either stubborn or actively deceptive.

Long answer... well, long answer is an ASCII art picture of you being rectally assaulted by a rhinocerus. Not because it's got anything to do with the thread subject, mind you; I just find the thought preferable to reading another of your insipid posts.

[Darth Wong]

A lot of people who haven't taken a science class in their lives tend to assume that there are different kinds of energy measured by different units, and the units can't be mixed. It reminds me of the idiot who once asked me why Europeans rate their car engines in kilowatts instead of horsepower, and asked if they all use electric cars.

[Kuroneko]

By request (not completely literal).

Оскорблять собеседника не лучший метод общения. Так что пока выпейте йаду и отправляйтесь в Бобруйск....

"Insulting your interlocutor is not the best method of communication. So for now drink some poison and head to Coventry..."

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Oh man, what a lukewarm threat.

[Connor MacLeod]

Actually I remember that comic, and I recall there are examples of the spears going through armor plates. But without knowing what the spears are made out of or how hard they're thrown, there's not much one can derive from those comics (of course, its not like there aren't competing examples showing the actual resistance, Vympel mentioned them.)

[VT-16]

Hell, the answer might be as simple as different armor manufacturers using sub-standard materials. If it can happen in real life, while couldn't it happen in the SW universe? :P

[Connor MacLeod]

Hell, the answer might be as simple as different armor manufacturers using sub-standard materials. If it can happen in real life, while couldn't it happen in the SW universe?

Those spears go cleanly through the armor plates the same way they go through the body stocking and don't even (to my memory) appear to noticably buckle, fracture, or whatnot. Which to me implies some sort of very durable impactor exerting alot of pressure on the target area, one that can stay completely intact as it passes through a person, no less.

[Connor MacLeod]

as for the "only the power of explosions is measured in tons" bullshit, maybe Russian can explain why asteroid impactors or volcanoes have been measured in "tons" of TNT even though they aren't explosives. of course, if he wants to be loose in applying the term "explosions", we can apply "tons" to any sort of weapon capable of vaporizing/explosively fragmenting a target (which turbolasers, ,lasers, etc. do.)

[Surlethe]

as for the "only the power of explosions is measured in tons" bullshit, maybe Russian can explain why asteroid impactors or volcanoes have been measured in "tons" of TNT even though they aren't explosives. of course, if he wants to be loose in applying the term "explosions", we can apply "tons" to any sort of weapon capable of vaporizing/explosively fragmenting a target (which turbolasers, ,lasers, etc. do.)

In fact, any weapon which gives energy to a target is capable of explosively fragmenting it. For example, see what the human hand can do to a soft, crumbly rock (sandstone, e.g.).

[Darth Wong]

Hell, the answer might be as simple as different armor manufacturers using sub-standard materials. If it can happen in real life, while couldn't it happen in the SW universe?

Those spears go cleanly through the armor plates the same way they go through the body stocking and don't even (to my memory) appear to noticably buckle, fracture, or whatnot. Which to me implies some sort of very durable impactor exerting alot of pressure on the target area, one that can stay completely intact as it passes through a person, no less.

How would one reconcile that with impacts in other incidents which pick up a man and send him flying, without cracking the armour? One could appeal to lower-grade armour (ie- scout armour) or perhaps one could theorize that the spears had vibro-heads on them or something.

[Batman]

Well there's that, the infamous monomolecular argument ('the spear point was only one molecule wide!!!), and given those are from comics as they are by necessity stills they aren't all that great at showing the kinetic effects of the hit (the Stormies might have been picked up in the same fashion/thrown extremely violently to the floor).
As you say we know from the YJK example that the armour can resist kinetic impacts way above anything modern manportable weapons can produce.
The fact that spears with completely unknown properties worked against armour that while looking similar need not be identical doesn't show anything conclusive, really.
That particular piece of armour might be shit, the suberies might be, it might have been a monomolecular spear thrown by Superman, it might have had a vibro head...

[Stark]

Just as an incidental factor, a WH40K Exterminatus doesn't even have to involve DET weapons fire at all. Virus-bombing a planet such that all life on it is destroyed qualifies, for instance.

That shows the differences between 'removing' a planet from play in the two universes. WH40K could physically mess up a planet, but much of the time they just make it inaccessable. Is it the 40k big torpedoes that are very limited, or is that the 'make planet explode' torpedoes?

OP: I'm actually surprised people still have problems with this. It's the usual gut reaction 'zomg that is too much'.

[SirNitram]

Just as an incidental factor, a WH40K Exterminatus doesn't even have to involve DET weapons fire at all. Virus-bombing a planet such that all life on it is destroyed qualifies, for instance.

That shows the differences between 'removing' a planet from play in the two universes. WH40K could physically mess up a planet, but much of the time they just make it inaccessable. Is it the 40k big torpedoes that are very limited, or is that the 'make planet explode' torpedoes?

OP: I'm actually surprised people still have problems with this. It's the usual gut reaction 'zomg that is too much'.

The latter, and I beleive there's less than ten of them.

[Darth Wong]

Well there's that, the infamous monomolecular argument ('the spear point was only one molecule wide!!!)

Do they really think the "monomolecular edge" thing makes any sense at all? There's always going to be one molecule which hits first, even if the impactor is a bowling ball.

[SirNitram]

Well there's that, the infamous monomolecular argument ('the spear point was only one molecule wide!!!)

Do they really think the "monomolecular edge" thing makes any sense at all? There's always going to be one molecule which hits first, even if the impactor is a bowling ball.

The idea, as I grasp it, is that a monomolecular edge is a ridiculously fine point, and thus will cut better.

I dunno, I guess. I mean flints sharp as fuck, but I'd not make a sword out of it.

[Adrian Laguna]

Well there's that, the infamous monomolecular argument ('the spear point was only one molecule wide!!!)

Do they really think the "monomolecular edge" thing makes any sense at all? There's always going to be one molecule which hits first, even if the impactor is a bowling ball.

I don't know about "monomolecular edge" or "point". However, a monomolecular blade has the entire thing be only a molecule wide. Usually these are suspended in technobabble energy fields.

[Batman]

There's a reason I called it the infamous monomolecular argument, you know.
IOW I haven't the foggiest how it's supposed to work, either.

[fgalkin]

Оскорблять собеседника не лучший метод общения.
Так что пока выпейте йаду и отправляйтесь в Бобруйск....

Уважаемый, если хочешь чтоб тебе целовали попку и всячески сюсюкали, сиди на рунете и не высовавайся. А здесь уважительное обращение надо заслужить. А если ты несешь всякую херню то тебя ругают матом за глупость.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Оскорблять собеседника не лучший метод общения.
Так что пока выпейте йаду и отправляйтесь в Бобруйск....

Уважаемый, если хочешь чтоб тебе целовали попку и всячески сюсюкали, сиди на рунете и не высовавайся. А здесь уважительное обращение надо заслужить. А если ты несешь всякую херню то тебя ругают матом за глупость.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Traduizez, s'il vous plait?

[SirNitram]

Fgalkin, Einhandler, behave or be crushed. I, personally, favour the crushing. You, maybe not so much.

[Connor MacLeod]

THow would one reconcile that with impacts in other incidents which pick up a man and send him flying, without cracking the armour? One could appeal to lower-grade armour (ie- scout armour) or perhaps one could theorize that the spears had vibro-heads on them or something.

With the fact we don't know the properties of the material. What I specified is perhaps the most we do know. Some sort of very strong material (as I said), probably with unusual properties. (Maybe they made them out of the materials of a crashed starship or something.) I doubt, for example, they're wooden or stone-tipped spears for example (something a "primitive" culture would use, I'm sure the Russian will argue.) because we don't see stone tips, and the spears don't look like they were sharpened stakes (the ends would show signs of being cut to a point, right?) And I'm pretty sure a wooden or stone object would be fairly brittle against the more rigid plating that makes up stormtrooper armor, and if they'd penetrated we'd see splinters or fragments from the impact.

I also don't think the spear would pierce through the armor quite so neat or smooth if it was made of bone or wood or something similar. Which, of course, leads me to suspect it was something very strong that could stay together yet pierce the ST plating like a needle through butter.

(Of course, we could also assume that since its largely arttistic drawings, and not very good ones at that, they don't accurately represent the penetration very well, but then that definitely kills it as any sort of valid example as well.)

.

[Darth Wong]

Well there's that, the infamous monomolecular argument ('the spear point was only one molecule wide!!!)

Do they really think the "monomolecular edge" thing makes any sense at all? There's always going to be one molecule which hits first, even if the impactor is a bowling ball.

I don't know about "monomolecular edge" or "point". However, a monomolecular blade has the entire thing be only a molecule wide. Usually these are suspended in technobabble energy fields.

It's pretty funny that sci-fi wankers would invent an energy field that can suspend particles in a monomolecular sheet with enough rigidity to act as a blade, and not realize that it's the energy field, not the particles, which is the real weapon. You could remove the particles and this hypothetical device would be just as effective.

[SirNitram]

Do they really think the "monomolecular edge" thing makes any sense at all? There's always going to be one molecule which hits first, even if the impactor is a bowling ball.

I don't know about "monomolecular edge" or "point". However, a monomolecular blade has the entire thing be only a molecule wide. Usually these are suspended in technobabble energy fields.

It's pretty funny that sci-fi wankers would invent an energy field that can suspend particles in a monomolecular sheet with enough rigidity to act as a blade, and not realize that it's the energy field, not the particles, which is the real weapon. You could remove the particles and this hypothetical device would be just as effective.

But then people whine it's a lightsaber and you're just doing a kiddie's story.

(Seriously, seen it happen. Some people are real fucking wankers.)