Evangelion & The Culture

[Exonerate]

Maybe she's emotionally unstable... Oh, wait, we already know that. The only time she was really confident was in the last ep, and thats when the Lance of Longinuss pierced her.

[Alex Moon]

Why the hell didn't they cruise missile the hell out of the Angels once the AT fields were dropped anyway? AAARRGGGGHHH, stupid lousy plot devices.

My point exactly. Israfel lost almost THIRTY percent of his mass to one N2 strike and remained motionless for day after day while it regenerated. Instead of just hitting him with a couple more though they use some damn complicated dance scheme to try and take it down.. somebody seems like somebody forgot the concept of KISS.

From as much of the series as I've seen, the N2 mines seemed to all have been detonated directly underneath the Angels. I doubt the Angels would be willing to simply sit there and let the JSSDF place another N2 at their feet, especially when they can very easily bitchslap anything short of an EVA that tries to approach.
In addition, the JSSDF may also have a very limited number of N2 in stock, meaning that they have to be conservative in their use of the weapon.

[The Nomad]

Well, if a beam < 50 GJ can kill one of those beasts, they're fried : according to my estimations, modern Culture handguns can reach at least near KT-range ( this is a "back-of-the-enveloppe" calc based on the energy output of Zakalwe's plasma rifle, in the training scene of Use of Weapons ). Not to mention that drones' weapons are at least as powerful ( nanomissiles, perhaps not, but CREWs, nearly sure ).

[Exonerate]

Why the hell didn't they cruise missile the hell out of the Angels once the AT fields were dropped anyway? AAARRGGGGHHH, stupid lousy plot devices.

My point exactly. Israfel lost almost THIRTY percent of his mass to one N2 strike and remained motionless for day after day while it regenerated. Instead of just hitting him with a couple more though they use some damn complicated dance scheme to try and take it down.. somebody seems like somebody forgot the concept of KISS.

From as much of the series as I've seen, the N2 mines seemed to all have been detonated directly underneath the Angels. I doubt the Angels would be willing to simply sit there and let the JSSDF place another N2 at their feet, especially when they can very easily bitchslap anything short of an EVA that tries to approach.
In addition, the JSSDF may also have a very limited number of N2 in stock, meaning that they have to be conservative in their use of the weapon.

If I recall correctly, they tried to destroy the Angel (Sea of Dirac one) with like 600+ N2 mines... Hardly a limited number.

[data_link]

That's 999 N2 mines. BTW, it was mentioned that that was every N2 mine in existence.

[Exonerate]

Thats still a lot of N2 mines... Should've been enough to destroy the Angels.

[white_rabbit]

[.

If I recall correctly, they tried to destroy the Angel (Sea of Dirac one) with like 600+ N2 mines... Hardly a limited number.

well, they were about to use them..


But then Unit 1 decided to be unpleasent.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Well, if a beam < 50 GJ can kill one of those beasts, they're fried : according to my estimations, modern Culture handguns can reach at least near KT-range ( this is a "back-of-the-enveloppe" calc based on the energy output of Zakalwe's plasma rifle, in the training scene of Use of Weapons ). Not to mention that drones' weapons are at least as powerful ( nanomissiles, perhaps not, but CREWs, nearly sure ).

Zakalwe's rifle was also an antique much like the LPP-91 in A Gift from the Culture.

Also, drones may have nano or micromissiles. If you have a missile that is around a couple of CM long and has a gram of AM in, then it will still make a big bloody bang. Especially if the drone has hundreds of the buggers creating a Macross Missile Massacre of sorts (M3).

[The Nomad]

Well, trying to be reasonable ( I took only the energy need to bring the given mass of water from 0 to 100 ° without latent heats and so, this does probably more than compensate the part of the ice cube which wasn't vaporized but shaterred in tiny fragments projected at high velocity ) , I came to the conclusion that Z' plasrifle could deliver between 500 and 800 Gigajoules per shot at least ( IIRC, it's been long since I made the calc ), and since I knew it was an antiquity ( Skaffen-Amtiskaw's comments on the more efficient modern handguns ) , I knew I could safely assume that Culture's handguns were KT-range. However, there is a possibility that drones' CREWs might not be that powerful ( from high-megawatt to mid-gigawatt perhaps, just a speculation, after all modern drones are insanely small ), but that this is more than compensated by their speed, mobility, intelligence, reaction times, and force fields/effector combo.

OTOH, nanomissiles seems to be relatively smart, agile, fast, but not that powerful ( could only level a big Chelgarian house in Look to Windward, so perhaps 50 GJ generous upper limit of explosive energy release ? would need only some mg of AM ). A M3 style attack ( with nearly 220 of them in your common Elench combat drone, still inferior to a Culture drone ) could potentially decimate a standard SW ground force ( stormies, Jedi, droids, etc ), but not things like AT-AT or those Angels in Evangelion, which seem to be quite big.[/u]

[Uraniun235]

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

[Exonerate]

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

If the Eva AT fields were so strong, why didn't they have Unit 0 throw up an AT field to block Ramiel's particle beam (whose observed effects were identical to the positron rifle's beam) while Unit 1 aimed and fired?

Once is enough... Probably because they didn't want the units getting damaged, so they used the shield. Or maybe Unit-01 just couldn't handle it.

[SylasGaunt]

Kinda puts a damnper on the no limits for AT fields argument..

From as much of the series as I've seen, the N2 mines seemed to all have been detonated directly underneath the Angels. I doubt the Angels would be willing to simply sit there and let the JSSDF place another N2 at their feet, especially when they can very easily bitchslap anything short of an EVA that tries to approach.

No need to as we've seen N2 mines can be delivered from the air.

[Uraniun235]

Once is enough... Probably because they didn't want the units getting damaged, so they used the shield. Or maybe Unit-01 just couldn't handle it.

Doesn't that indicate, though, that a particle beam equivalent to the 180GW beam used by NERV is sufficient to damage an Eva?

And would that not indicate that stronger weapons would do more damage?

[Exonerate]

Once is enough... Probably because they didn't want the units getting damaged, so they used the shield. Or maybe Unit-01 just couldn't handle it.

Doesn't that indicate, though, that a particle beam equivalent to the 180GW beam used by NERV is sufficient to damage an Eva?

And would that not indicate that stronger weapons would do more damage?

Don't know... You can't really judge the power of the positron rifle with the particle beam the Angel used.

[SylasGaunt]

Considering their effects were practically mirror images of each other I'd say you can.

[Exonerate]

Focus a 180GW beam into 5 inches, then compare it with a 360GW beam focused into 5 inches. I havn't seen the episode in a long time, but if I recall correctly, the beam usually just blew a hole through whatever it hit.

[SylasGaunt]

Actually they caused a rather nice boom upon impact with the mountainside, both explosions were the same size, both beams were distorted almost identically when they got near each other, etc.

[Uraniun235]

It was damn near a mirror image, the two explosions.

[Lord of the Farce]

Because something is non-nuclear doesn't mean that its weaker than a nuclear one. In the end, an 100 megaton non-nuclear warhead will do a lot more damage than a 1kt one.

AFAIK, N2 bomb/mine are suppose to be the most powerful "non-nuclear" weapons and doesn't produce any radiation (other than heat, I guess), which seems to imply that it is weaker than nuclear weapons and that it wouldn't have an matter/anti-matter warhead (which, IIRC, releases most of the energy in gamma radiation).

BTW, on that quote about all of the existing N2 bombs, I thought that it was actually 992

Focus a 180GW beam into 5 inches, then compare it with a 360GW beam focused into 5 inches. I havn't seen the episode in a long time, but if I recall correctly, the beam usually just blew a hole through whatever it hit.

Ehhh... wouldn't the beam from the 360GW be twice as bright as the 180GW beam?

From as much of the series as I've seen, the N2 mines seemed to all have been detonated directly underneath the Angels. I doubt the Angels would be willing to simply sit there and let the JSSDF place another N2 at their feet, especially when they can very easily bitchslap anything short of an EVA that tries to approach.

Actually, dropping N2 bombs from the air down onto the Angel appears to be much, MUCH more common than planting them as a mine. Heck, I can't even readily recall one instance of N2 bombs being used like a mine.

[Setzer]

Why the hell didn't they cruise missile the hell out of the Angels once the AT fields were dropped anyway? AAARRGGGGHHH, stupid lousy plot devices.

My point exactly. Israfel lost almost THIRTY percent of his mass to one N2 strike and remained motionless for day after day while it regenerated. Instead of just hitting him with a couple more though they use some damn complicated dance scheme to try and take it down.. somebody seems like somebody forgot the concept of KISS.

KISS? I doubt their music is bad enough to kill something.

[SylasGaunt]

Actually KISS isn't referring to the band but the concept of 'Keep It Simple Stupid'