Proving BaldStar Wrong

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, Tom Paris actually STATED during an episode that ships at warp could not turn. That is also canon. In this case, if you are right, there is a contradiction. If we are right, there is no contradiction.

BTW, how many people here think that Lord Poe has beaten the crap out of DarkStar, here? If anyone agrees or disagrees with my statement (excluding me, Lord Poe, and DarkStar), then please post.

[Anarchist Bunny]

DarkStar could learn some things from Omega-13.

[Master of Ossus]

DarkStar could learn some things from Omega-13.

LOL! Damn that's cold.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I agree with you Ossus, partially because we're all right.

And because I'm the one who made the damn animation that's being used as evidence.

Seriously, FuckFace, are you freaking BLIND or something?

Or is your stubborn refusal to admit when you're wrong the thing that's blinding you?

Just shut the fuck up and quit making a moron out of yourself.

[Lord Poe]

You ignore clear canon visual evidence

You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/ ... ldyani.gif

[Cal Wright]

BTW, Tom Paris actually STATED during an episode that ships at warp could not turn. That is also canon. In this case, if you are right, there is a contradiction. If we are right, there is no contradiction.

BTW, how many people here think that Lord Poe has beaten the crap out of DarkStar, here? If anyone agrees or disagrees with my statement (excluding me, Lord Poe, and DarkStar), then please post.

Poe hasn't beaten the crap out of Dorkstar you ass. He has beaten the bloody fucking rodney king pulp out of this Chris O'Farrell clone.

'Dr. Wright. We have created a clone of Chris O'Farrell. He is one eigth the intelligence. We shall call him, pencil dick.'

At that moment, a tall stoner walked onto the boards accompanied by a portly fellow with a black trench coat.
'Yo. The E-D made some phat turns at warp.'
With the remark, Silent Bob's eyes widened. He turned and grabbed Jay and shook him about.
'The sign, on the back of the van, said 'No sharp turns at warp. It's Cannon evidence.' you stupid fuck!'

'Say it don't spray it'

Concession accepted.

[DarkStar]

BTW, Tom Paris actually STATED during an episode that ships at warp could not turn. That is also canon. In this case, if you are right, there is a contradiction. If we are right, there is no contradiction.

And yet we have seen starships turn on countless occasions, and even pivot at warp. A hairpin turn at 9.5 is hardly more impressive than these maneuvers which already override the Paris quote.

[DarkStar]

I agree with you Ossus, partially because we're all right.

And because I'm the one who made the damn animation that's being used as evidence.

Seriously, FuckFace, are you freaking BLIND or something?

Or is your stubborn refusal to admit when you're wrong the thing that's blinding you?

Just shut the fuck up and quit making a moron out of yourself.

There has been no argument presented which can override the canon facts of the episode. Therefore, unless you come up with a better argument, there is no reason for me to change my views.

[DarkStar]

You ignore clear canon visual evidence

You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/ ... ldyani.gif

Okay, Poe, fine... you have withdrawn from even trying to look like you're discussing anything. Of course, you were never willing to be swayed from your anti-canon position in the first place. The thread speaks for itself, as does the canon... trying to "get the last word" won't change the fact that you are wrong. "Concession accepted."


.... in perpetuity, unless you come up with a better argument.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

DarkStar, you ignored my posts. As you Americans say...

[img]http://supreme_sheridan.tripod.com/images/concession_accepted3.txt[/img]

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Okay, Poe, fine... you have withdrawn from even trying to look like you're discussing anything. Of course, you were never willing to be swayed from your anti-canon position in the first place. The thread speaks for itself, as does the canon... trying to "get the last word" won't change the fact that you are wrong. "Concession accepted."

.... in perpetuity, unless you come up with a better argument.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame63.html

DarkStar, are you really that thick-headed? Do you even know what Canon means?

The screenshots obviously show that the E-D was *not* at warp during that turn, and nothing you've said can change that canon fact.

Maybe it looks like warp effects when your head is rammed so far up your ass. Get a clue, FuckFace:
Your claims are not canon facts! Your claims contradict visual evidence![/url]

[oberon]

The only people who believe that Poe has kicked ass in this debate are the ones who either have not read it, do not understand it, or who agree with Poe that the canon of Trek can be ignored.

What a wonderfully unfalsifiable statement. Anytime someone says you're wrong, and they know the canon material, you can cry "They don't understand it!" This is not an argument. Same with making a conclusion abt what people think.

[oberon]

Hmm, it seems that the ability to edit is turned on only intermittently... ?? Failed to close my quote tag.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Hmm, it seems that the ability to edit is turned on only intermittently... ?? Failed to close my quote tag.

Edit button is off in this forum so people can't go changing what they say.



Fixed it for you.

[Lord Poe]

[quote="DarkStar]
Okay, Poe, fine... you have withdrawn from even trying to look like you're discussing anything.[/quote]
You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/ ... ldyani.gif[/quote]

[Master of Ossus]

Listen DenseStar, because I really don't think I should have to continue this debate: Visual evidence overrides dialogue, because a character can be mistaken. We should only use the dialogue if the visual evidence supports it, or if no visual evidence contradicts it AND if the dialogue makes sense when taken in context with other dialogue and events from the rest of the canon shows. In this case, what you are claiming is one of two things:

1. Dialogue overrides visual evidence.
OR
2. There was an FX gaffe.

Neither one of these is legitimate. You lose, DumbShit, as you have several times in the past.

LORD POE WINS!

[DarkStar]

DarkStar, you ignored my posts.

Your concerns have already been answered by me ... repeatedly.

[Master of Ossus]

DarkStar, you ignored my posts.

Your concerns have already been answered by me ... repeatedly.

When? Provide quotes.

[DarkStar]

The screenshots obviously show that the E-D was *not* at warp during that turn, and nothing you've said can change that canon fact.

Your claim rests on the following argument:

1. On Star Trek: The Next Generation, starships and objects are capable of travelling faster than light.

2. We are able to see starships travelling faster at light (despite the inherent physics problems this presents) ... this is represented by the ship travelling through a field of moving "stars" which show an interesing prismatic effect.

3. If there are no "warp stars", there is no warp speed.

4. In the scene after the starship separation, there are no "warp stars".

Therefore, there is no warp speed in that scene.

The argument sounds okay if you don't think about it too hard, or don't actually examine whether or not the premises are true. When you do, you realize that the argument is nothing more than a pleasing sophistry that Poe is trying to slip past you.

As I have demonstrated, the middle premises of the argument are faulty... we see warp speed without warp stars in certain situations (i.e. a stationary observation point).

"Well," warsies say, "that just means that the ship was not at warp at the time you claim it was."

Wrong. The ship was engaging in what Picard referred to as "maximum acceleration". She turned from the Q barrier, went to warp, and evidence of warp speeds was shown on the bridge viewscreen. We then cut to a scene of the Enterprise-D passing (as seen from a stationary observation point), with the Q fireball passing a moment later. There are no warp stars. Next, we see the viewscreen again... the ship is shown at warp with warp stars, and Worf reads off the speed. Moments later, Picard orders "Continue accelerating". At no point did the ship stop accelerating at warp speeds during the time period the warsies claim.

Next, I have shown that the stardrive section required six seconds to drop out of warp by reversing engines. The saucer, without warp engines to reverse, would require at least this amount of time. Canon examples of warp-driven ships which have lost warp propulsion while in warp flight would confirm this, and this is more than applicable to a saucer which has lost its warp drive section. However, according to the warsie argument, it only took 1/15 of a second for both sections to drop out of warp simultaneously. Further, the warsie argument requires that the scene which demonstrates warp speed without warp stars be reinterpreted as a quick drop from and equally quick return to maximum warp speed.

Showing warp speed without streaking warp stars is a convention in Trek, from TOS to TNG. Ignoring this and other related canon facts leads to arguments as futile and foolish as Wayne's, and yours.

[Lord Poe]

Your claim rests on the following argument:

[snip]

Clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/ ... ldyani.gif

[Phil Skayhan]

Just wanted to say "sorry Wayne" that I never got around to making that vidcap.

[Lord Poe]

Just wanted to say "sorry Wayne" that I never got around to making that vidcap.

Not a problem. Plenty of people can see from the screenshots that the stardrive section wasn't at warp when it made the turn.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

We see warp stars before
We see no warps stars then.
We see warp stars reappear




WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?

[Master of Ossus]

DarkStar, your entire argument appears to hinge on taking dialogue more literally than visual evidence. This is wrong. Even you should know that. If you are not saying that the dialogue is more important than the visual evidence, or that there was an FX gaffe, what are you claiming? We can clearly see that the stardrive is not at warp while it makes the turn.

BTW, Phil, nice avatar!

[DarkStar]

DarkStar, your entire argument appears to hinge on taking dialogue more literally than visual evidence. This is wrong.

No, you are. Your claim is that the visual evidence always shows warp speed with warp stars. This is usually, but not always true, since scenes from a stationary observation point do not show warp stars, as demonstrated. This means you are choosing to ignore canon fact.

To put it more plainly (if outside the bounds of the way we argue): Star Trek TNG showed us a new representation of warp effects, that being the rainbow-streak stars... and this has become standard throughout all Trek which has followed (except the last few TOS movies). But, they did not leave the roots of Trek entirely, and so would also use the TOS method of showing a whooshing ship past a stationary observation point.

If you are not saying that the dialogue is more important than the visual evidence, or that there was an FX gaffe, what are you claiming?

That your claims of "warp stars = warp, therefore no warp stars = no warp" is false, and I have shown you why.

We can clearly see that the stardrive is not at warp while it makes the turn.

Again, only based on the faulty argument you continue to try to defend.