Steam and Steel: AltHist. Victorian STGOD

[Thirdfain]

Is it just my imagination, or does Thirdfain have a rather unfortunate tendency of forgetting the latter parts of people's posts while replying to the beginning?

No, Thirdfain has no working computer and is taking 22 credits and has to manage this whole fucking thing in his 10-minute brakes between class on a computer in the library. Live with it. And the Fortress idea is STILL no.

[Adrian Laguna]

Is it just my imagination, or does Thirdfain have a rather unfortunate tendency of forgetting the latter parts of people's posts while replying to the beginning?

No, Thirdfain has no working computer and is taking 22 credits and has to manage this whole fucking thing in his 10-minute brakes between class on a computer in the library. Live with it. And the Fortress idea is STILL no.

Oh, that explains it. I was wondering what was up with the partial responses.

[Vanas]

I'm gonig to be a few days with the OOB. I've had a couple of crappy days at work and the last thing I want to do now is make an attack at another spreadsheet.

[A-Wing_Slash]

Is there still room for another player? If there is, I'd like to lay my claim to the string of Islands from just east of Dahak's territory up to the Island of Timor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think thats the last good bit of island territory out there. I've got a history in mind for them, so I'll post that and an OoB pretty soon. I've never done one of these before, but it seems like a lot of fun.

[Pablo Sanchez]

To the Nation of The Indepedent Republic of Sulawesi. The order of 3x Edselon Battleships and 6x Tuckera Cruisers has been finalized and shall be completed within the following months for deliver.

Um, sorry, but what the fuck? That's a colossal build that will consume every last point of Crossroadia's point allotment for at least a year--keep in mind that whether you're selling the ships to somebody else or keeping them for yourself, they still have got to be built. And I have to question what exactly he was going to pay you back with in exchange for completely monopolizing your entire industry for like a year.

[Crossroads Inc.]

To the Nation of The Indepedent Republic of Sulawesi. The order of 3x Edselon Battleships and 6x Tuckera Cruisers has been finalized and shall be completed within the following months for deliver.

Um, sorry, but what the fuck? That's a colossal build that will consume every last point of Crossroadia's point allotment for at least a year--keep in mind that whether you're selling the ships to somebody else or keeping them for yourself, they still have got to be built. And I have to question what exactly he was going to pay you back with in exchange for completely monopolizing your entire industry for like a year.

Well, Indeed prety much it shall use up the rersources for the next year or som, I am well aware of this... I 'assume' however that while I am paying for the resources, Im getting paid in the base 'points' So next 'turn' I'd have the normal amount of points my nation has, plus the 'Cost' of those ships.

Did that make any sense? Or am I getting deeper in trouble?

[Pablo Sanchez]

Well, Indeed prety much it shall use up the rersources for the next year or som, I am well aware of this... I 'assume' however that while I am paying for the resources, Im getting paid in the base 'points' So next 'turn' I'd have the normal amount of points my nation has, plus the 'Cost' of those ships.

No. FFS, points represent industrial potential, it makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever to trade them like that--production points might be abstracted but they still stand in for real stuff that he can't just throw on a steamer transport and send over for you to use.

Did that make any sense? Or am I getting deeper in trouble?

Does it not occur to you that this is an appallingly terrible idea? If you don't pay the point cost, who does?

If Fisher is paying his points for it, then he should have just goddam built them himself. If Fisher isn't paying the points, and neither are you, then the ships are apparently manifesting out of thin air. If you don't understand why this is bad I ought to just pistol whip you in the mouth.

[Agent Fisher]

Ok, Pablo, listen, basicly, that was so I was going to have his ships in my OOB, since my nations doesn't have the facilitys to build that big of ships. And they were going to be used for the main navy, while I make my own ships for the pirate force. And yes, I am paying the point cost, from my OOB.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I'm tempted to cancel the whole thing, though I'd rather not have to... But the question stands, is there any reason/way for one person to 'buy' ships from another person? If I want to set myself up as shipping manufacture to others (and I do) what would need to be done? in the mechanics of the game is this something that even makes sense? Or we going to be forced to make everything ourselves and only trade in raw goods?

Just, kinda curious.

[Dahak]

If Fisher is paying his points for it, then he should have just goddam built them himself. If Fisher isn't paying the points, and neither are you, then the ships are apparently manifesting out of thin air. If you don't understand why this is bad I ought to just pistol whip you in the mouth.

Well, the points are abstract for the economy, so stuff like trading, possible fees for straits, all comes into it, at least that's what I thought.
If Fisher wants his ships built by Crossroads, then how about this: Fisher has to pay for them from his points, but with an added cost for having them built, like 10% or so, Crossroads builds them, but uses up his points as well sans the added cost points. After finishing the construction, Crossroads gets the bonus points.
So in the end, Fisher will have his ships, Crossraods will have some bonus points after the construction.
Of course, Crossroads won't have built anything for himself, so he's potentially weaker militarily than an opponent using his points to build for himself.

Though doing this in the initial construction is stupid. Fisher could just have included the new ships in his OOB, even if he doesn't have the capacity to have built them in the first place. He could have bought them before the start of the game, they could have fallen out of the sky, whatever. That's what your initial points are for.

[Adrian Laguna]

Though doing this in the initial construction is stupid. Fisher could just have included the new ships in his OOB, even if he doesn't have the capacity to have built them in the first place. He could have bought them before the start of the game, they could have fallen out of the sky, whatever. That's what your initial points are for.

Yeah, it woul be far simpler to have simply have the battleships in the OOB and just say "Built by Crossroadia" in the description.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Yeah, it woul be far simpler to have simply have the battleships in the OOB and just say "Built by Crossroadia" in the description.

I could live with that, while I wouldn't recieve 'profit' as it where, it would at least establish myself as a Ship manufacture.

[Straha]

The Tsarist Imperial Navy (I guesstimated with the weaponry details. If anyone has any objections please air them now because I may very well be wrong with some of this.)


The Tsaraevich Battleship
(Tsar's Personal Flagship)

300 Points

150 Point Hull

4X 14 Inch Guns
12X 6 Inch Guns
8X 6 Pounders
10X 2 Pounders
8X 16-Inch Torpedoes

45 Weaponry
30 Armour
45 Speed
10 Torpedo Protection
10 Maneuver

X1 (300 Points)

Tromp Class Battleship

300 Points

150 Hull Points

4X 12 Inch Guns
10X 4 Inch Guns
4X 4 Pounders
2X 2 Pounders
4X 16 Inch Torpedoes

30 Weaponry
30 Armour
50 Speed
5 Torpedo Protection
25 Maneuver

X3 (1200)



The Richmond Class Cruiser

170 Points

85 Hull

6x8-Inch Guns
16x3 Inch Guns
4x2 Pounders
4x 16-Inch Torpedo Tubes

25 Weaponry
10 Armour
30 Speed
5 TP
15 Maneuver

X5 (850 Points)

The Alexander Class Cruiser

50 Points

25 Hull

2x 6 Inch Guns
8x 6 Pound Guns
3x 16 Inch Torpedo Tubes

10 Weaponry
5 Armour
25 Speed
10 Maneuver

X 6 (30 Points)

Tsar Class Torpedo Boats

4 Points

2 Hull

3x Maxim guns
3x 16 Inch Torpedo Tubes

1 Weapon
1 Speed

X 30 (120 Points)

Total 2200


Army, Navy, and Marine Total Point Usage: 3510

Fortifications:
(Details coming with Map)
150 Fortress Muscovy

40 Fortress Rus

100 X 3 Netherlander Port Fortresses

[CaptainChewbacca]

Tentative OOB, no military yet.

Seejager Class, 230 pts
Heavy Armored Cruiser
The pride of Germanic engineering, the Jaegers emphasize speed and hitting power over armor. These ships are always out on the frontier waters of the Kingdom, and will respond to any threat with great ferocity.

9000 tons
Hull points, 115.
8x 10 inch guns, 4 in 2 turrets and 2 on each side.
8x 6 inch guns
10x 4 inch guns
6x 20 inch torpedo tubes w/magnetic torpedoes
armament: 30
Protection: 20
torpedo protection: 15
Speed: 20
Maneuver: 30
5 Cruisers, 1150 pts

Hermann Class, 80pts
Protected Cruiser
The Hermann class is the reliable standard for the Kingdom. Incredibly powerful and maneuverable for its size, it has kept the Kingdom free of pirates for generations.

4,000 tons
Armament: 2x10 inch guns
6x6-inch guns
4x18-inch torpedo tubes
Armament: 15
Protection: 5
Torpedo Protection: 2
Speed: 9
Maneuver: 9
x15 = 1200 pts

Blitzen Class
Fast Attack Craft Craft
The Blitzen class is a newer style of naval doctrine. A fast and hard-hitting craft it serves in coastal patrols, interdiction, and in naval support.
500 tons
1x 10-pound gun
4x 6-inch guns
2x swivel guns
Speed: 2
Fire: 2
Maneuver: 1
x40 =400 pts

Lancer Class
Torpedo Boat
200 Tonnes
Armament: 2x24 inch torpedo tubes
2x Swivel Guns
Fire: 1
Protection: 1
x90 = 360 pts

Island Fortresses.
Each island fortress serves multiple functions. They are coaling stations, naval bases, and serve as a defensive network to warn Germania of any attack. Fortress compounds exist on Mauritius, Agalega, Reunion, Juan de Nova, Rodriguez Island, and Grande Glorieuse.
3x 10 inch guns in fixed positions
4x 7 inch mobile guns
Extra reinforcement and provisions to make them more durable than usual.

Mainland Fortresses.
Madagascar has very excellent geography for defense. A rugged eastern coast and very few harbors mean that any assault is likely to come at one of the few large ports. Antisarana Bay, Toamasina, and Bombetoka Bay all have extensive fortifications.
8x 14 inch guns
12x 10 inch mobile guns

Fortifications- 320 points

Army
Germania does not maintain a large professional army, choosing instead to have a smaller, well-equpped force used primarily for naval engagements and a larger militia for defense of the homeland.

10,000 Marines (100 points) The Royal Sea Tigers are the pride of the Germanian military. Stationed at the various island outposts, the Tigers take part in boarding actions, coastal interdiction, and anti-piracy as well as land assaults as needed.

Royal Germanian Army
30,000 Troops (150 pts). The military strength of Madagascar, the Army is deployed in four defensive groups around the mainland, each under the command of a Royal Marshall.

Teutonic Cavalry
1000 Men (120 points). Exemplary horsemen, the Cavalry is made up largely of nobles' sons and is given the best equipment and training for their work.

Germanian Artillery
3000 Men (100 pts). Top of the line equipment and materials.

Defensive Militia
20,000 (100 pts). Many men take the monthly tax incentives to train and familiarize themselves with general tactics and weapons use. In the event of an invasion or natural disaster, the militia will be called up in good order.

Total: 4000 pts.

[Straha]

I just want to post a note on terminology:

When I post I will speak, in all foreseeable cases, for "Russia." However, this is just Tsar Nicholas speaking because he has not rescinded his claim on the throne of Russia. Should he ever, storywise, return to Russia (I.E. If he wins a particularilly important battle down here) I will not ever have Russia proper entering into the Pacific. Just to clarify that because I don't want people trying to accuse me of trying to bring Russia down into the Indian Ocean later.

That being said I also want to post the Russian flag here so I don't lose it:

[Cincinnatus]

Is it too late to get in on this? I've lurked for a while at looked at previous STGODs, and this one looks really fun. If it's okay, I'd like to claim the Eastern Coast of India, which I think isn't taken.

Also, can anyone point to any good online resources on the Victorian age? I've been looking on Wikipedia, but I was wondering if there was anything that was more focused on the period.

[weemadando]

Grand Sultanate of the Maldives

Quick History:
Settled by Arabic traders in the 1300s the Maldives indigenous population of fishermen were startled by the wealth of the new settlers. The settlers took some time to adapt, but by the mid 1400s the Maldives were a major trading post between India, Asia, Africa and Arabia. Through careful and precise anticipations of the supply and demand economies of the region, the traders were able to increase their wealth and stature. Eventually declaring themselves and their successors to be "The Grand And Everlasting Sultanate Of The Blessed And Glorious Archipelago Of The Maldives". Over the next several hundred years the Sultanate traded in every commodity available, continually acting as the shrewd businessmen and investing in their own lands as well as abroad. Their islands, though small had several resources which became increasingly valuable as the industrial age began in the 1700s. It was at around this point that the Sultanate invited academics, scientists and engineers to their islands, promising excellent pay, research funding and other enticements. Though there had never been a state religion, the Sultanate now became worshippers of currency to a far greater extent. And the influence of the influx of new thinking led to a revolution of sorts within the society. At first there was strong opposition from certain clerics and imams who quickly were replaced by more moderate sorts who appreciated the finer points of not being fed to the local shark populations. With a strong community of well-funded thinkers now working to further the prosperity of the Grand Sultanate through technological innovation, rather than the continued reliance on trading espoused by many of the older generation of advisors, the Maldives are looking to become increasingly prosperous. Recent experiments in deep mining with the use of pumps to clear water have led to some previously exhausted surface deposits of resources becoming viable mines once more.

[A-Wing_Slash]

A brief History of the Alliance of United Kingdoms

The Alliance of United Kingdoms traces its roots back to the end of the British Usurpations of the late 1860's. With Victoria's bid for the Crown defeated in 1868, Captain Richard Blair, a supporter of Victoria, decided to strike out on his. Taking his ironclad cruiser HMS Indefatigable, he captured the island of Sumba from the the Dutch East India Company, establishing himself as Richard the First and Sumba as a safe haven for European exiles. Within a few years however the natives began a bloody Guerilla war. By 1874, with the help of the Kings of the neighboring Islands of Sumbawa and Flores, the natives had besieged the capital of Victoriaville. Rather than fight it out however, King Richard decided to negotiate, and the ensuing Settlement of 1874 brought peace to the Island. It gave the natives full rights and representation in the Parliament, and allied Sumba with its two neighbors. Over the years this alliance closened, and in 1879 the three monarchies merged to form an Alliance of United Kingdoms, headed by the Council of Kings, which annually elected a "King of Kings" to rule the three islands. Ten years later, after the Timroesse Islanders threw out both the Dutch and Portougesse colonists, the AUK accepted a Timoresse petition to join the Alliance, which now ecompassed four major islands. The AUK is in the process of industrializing the Alliance up to modern levels.

The AUK encompasses the three islands just east of Java, as well as Timor further north east.

[A-Wing_Slash]

The Alliance of United Kingdoms Order of Battle

Royal Alliance Navy

King-of-Kings Class Battleship - 250pts x4

The Pride of the Alliance Navy, the King of Kings Class was hired out to forgein shipbuilders because its size surpassed that which Alliance Shipyards could build at the time.

TMS King-of-Kings
TMS Richard I
TMS Arlindo II
TMS Xanana Gusmao

12,500 tons
8x10-inch guns
8x6-inch guns
6x 3-pounders
6x 6cm guns
4x 18-inch torpedo tubes

Firepower 40
Protection 35
Torpedo Protection 5
Speed 25
Manuever 20

1000pts total

Indefatigable Class Armoured Cruiser - 120pts x12

6,000 tons
4x6-inch guns
6x 4-inch guns
4x 6-pounders
4x 6cm guns
4x 18-inch torpedo tubes

Firepower 20
Protection 15
Torpedo Protection 0
Speed 15
Manuever 10

2440pts total


Komodo Class Unprotected Cruiser- 40pts x18

2,000 tons
Firepower 8
Protection 2
Torpedo Protection 0
Speed 5
Manuever 5

3160 pts total

Tengarra Class Torpedo Boats 4pts x 72
200 tons
Firepower 1
Speed 1

3448pts total

Royal Ground Forces

Fort 50pts x3

3598pts total

Royal Sumban Marine Corps - 150pts

5,000 Marines

Originating with the Indefatigable's Marine contingent, the RSMC are highly trained, armed with bolt action rifles. Maxim Guns and horse drawn artillery are available for situations that require them.

3748pts total

Exército real do Timor - 92pts

9,200 men

The native army of East Timor

Koninklijk leger van Timor - 90pts

9,000 men

The Native army of West Timor

Koninklijk leger van sumbawa - 40pts

4,000 men

The native army of Sumbawa

Exército real do Flores - 30pts

3,000 men

The native army of Flores

4,000pts total

This is the first time I've ever done something like this, so any advice on my OoB would be greatly appreciated.

EDITS: Added Tonnage to the BBs and CAs at the expense of my unprotecteds and forts. Added a fort at the expense of the army.

[Beowulf]

Destroyers aren't 2,000 tons until just prior to WWII. A much more common weight was 200 to 500 tons. They are pretty much a brand new ship class in the late Victorian era, where this takes place. A 2k ton ship would probably be more accurately called a 3rd class cruiser, or similar. The real life Pelorus class cruisers of the Royal Navy were 2100 tons.

The battleships are a bit light, but fine.

[Adrian Laguna]

Destroyers aren't 2,000 tons until just prior to WWII. A much more common weight was 200 to 500 tons. They are pretty much a brand new ship class in the late Victorian era, where this takes place. A 2k ton ship would probably be more accurately called a 3rd class cruiser, or similar. The real life Pelorus class cruisers of the Royal Navy were 2100 tons.

The battleships are a bit light, but fine.

A-Wing_Slash, to clarify a bit on the cruisers. At 40 points your "destroyer" would be an unprotected cruiser or a protected cruiser, your call. The larger cruisers (100 pointers) can be either protected or (more likely) armoured cruisers. Again, your call.

[A-Wing_Slash]

Destroyers aren't 2,000 tons until just prior to WWII. A much more common weight was 200 to 500 tons. They are pretty much a brand new ship class in the late Victorian era, where this takes place. A 2k ton ship would probably be more accurately called a 3rd class cruiser, or similar. The real life Pelorus class cruisers of the Royal Navy were 2100 tons.

The battleships are a bit light, but fine.

A-Wing_Slash, to clarify a bit on the cruisers. At 40 points your "destroyer" would be an unprotected cruiser or a protected cruiser, your call. The larger cruisers (100 pointers) can be either protected or (more likely) armoured cruisers. Again, your call.

I changed the classes to Armoured Cruiser and Unprotected Cruiser. Thanks for the help. Other than nomenclatur however, how good does my OoB look?

And I added strength to my BBs at the expense of some of my forts.

[Beowulf]

The BBs are currently illegal.

[A-Wing_Slash]

The BBs are currently illegal.

Thanks for catching that. I updated the points correctly, but forget to adjust what I put for the tonnage accordingly. Stupid mistake.

[Straha]

Right, before I formalize my OOB I just want to get one subject clear:

The effiaciacy of Coastal Fortresses versus fleets. I can't remember any instances during our time period where coastal fortifications were actually put to use (except for a British action in Egypt... where the Egyptians fled, unless you'd count Port Arthur as part of our time period?) Personally, I always thought that the STGOD1 and STGOD4 approach of "Zomg! Battlestations are useless!" was rather annoying, and would much prefer to see actually useful fortifications in this game, I.E. Fortifications which would cause enough damage to a battle fleet so as to ensure that no direct attack will be taken against the fortifications for fear of serious losses.

Your thoughts?