Discussion of proposed new arguments

[vivftp]

By that logic, a monk who has taken a vow of chastity is no longer a male (assuming he keeps said vow and doesn't take it out on alter boys.)

It's not a lack of using the equiptment, it's that the persons gender status not of any importance to the Borg - they just view it as a drone. What we think of it makes no difference - it's how the Borg view things, and that's likely what Q was referring to.

Whats the point of describing one drone like that if its not the norm? Q was introducing Picard and company to the borg. Its not like he's gonna say, "oh this is what this one is like. Others are different." No. He was describing drones in general...supposedly.

Sure... "supposedly". You sound really confident there

Q was talking to Picard about that one single drone standing in front of them. The possibility I raised of it comming from a species with no males or females is quite real and plausible.

THIS proves they were planning on tearing the E-D apart. Unless of course Q was lying in which case you concede the whole point

Say it with me - ASSIMILATION. You know, that thing the Borg do? Seriously, have you really watched much Trek other than TNG?

Even though the cause of death is completely different? Nice no limits borg wank there.

Of course! 18 hours of death after electrocution with severe brain damage vs... what would be the effects of exposure to space for say, 1 minute anyways?

BTW, need I remind you that an entire section of the Enterprise was removed, which would include whole rooms. Whole rooms which are sealed environments and thus if anyone were in there, they'd be able to survive just fine.


Anyways, this is straying from the point - who cares even if those 18 people were killed and for whatever reason the Borg couldn't revive them? We're talking about the Enterprise itself - you know the thing with 1,000 more people on board? In going after the Enterprise to assimilate it they can very easily assimilate the other 1,000 people on board.

So once again, where in the hell was Q lying here??

[Connor MacLeod]

EDIT:NM, I realized a math error. Appears to be closer to 2 MJ now. Which is in line with blaster estimates

Eh? What?

[Connor MacLeod]

Any large influx of energy, especially if it involves significant vaporization, must automatically look like or behave like a bomb/nuclear or otherwise when it strikes a target.

Mike's got that already

I'm probably going to kick myyself for asking that, but where?

[Vympel]

Argument #18.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Dat ... .php?ID=18

[Ted C]

How do we reconcile this with the numerous statements of omnipotence by Q over the years? It could simply be that the Q are so powerful that while they aren't technically omnipotent (ie. they do have some limitations), they may as well be considered such.

Or they just like to think of themselves as omnipotent and describe themselves as such to less powerful beings, even though they know better.

[vivftp]

Or they just like to think of themselves as omnipotent and describe themselves as such to less powerful beings, even though they know better.

Well like I posted earlier, omnipotent can be defined as having "very great powers" - which would fall in line with the Q. Of course the other definition is "having infinite powers" which wouldn't describe the Q. So it depends on which definition of the word you're using.

[Darth Wong]

That's like arguing that science is a religion by using the loose definition of religion (a tactic which many religious idiots do engage in, by the way). The strict definition of omnipotence is exactly what the word's components add up to: capable of anything. And that's obviously what people here are arguing about, based on the kinds of arguments they're making. You're just being a pedantic jackass and you're fouling up my thread with your bullshit. Either get back on topic or shut the fuck up.

[mr friendly guy]

I second Darth Servo's Q = omnipotent argument.

Vivftp has also provided examples showing that omnipotent as used by Q isn't quite how most people think of the word. Its grossly exaggerating at best, outright lying at worse.

Another thing worth considering is quantifying some of Q's feats, ie moving a small moon etc. My physics knowledge is average, but can't you calculate the work done if you have the mass and distance. We can then contrast that to say the DS laser. Without actually crunching the numbers, I am going to say that the DS laser is likely to use more energy namely because Alderaan likely will have a greater mass than a small moon.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Just a minor point- work done = force exerted x distance moved in direction of force.
There are equations for energies involved in gravitational and electrical/magnetic interaction, but I'd have to look those up.

I think there are those who say that Imperial ships rely on 'simple fusion' as opposed to hyperatter, or something like that.

[Darth Wong]

I second Darth Servo's Q = omnipotent argument.

Vivftp has also provided examples showing that omnipotent as used by Q isn't quite how most people think of the word. Its grossly exaggerating at best, outright lying at worse.

Another thing worth considering is quantifying some of Q's feats, ie moving a small moon etc. My physics knowledge is average, but can't you calculate the work done if you have the mass and distance. We can then contrast that to say the DS laser. Without actually crunching the numbers, I am going to say that the DS laser is likely to use more energy namely because Alderaan likely will have a greater mass than a small moon.

I've calculated it, and it's insignificant compared to planet-destroying energy.

[Darth Wong]

There's the ever-popular "the Federation would reverse-engineer Imperial technology overnight and beat them with their own weapons."

And "the Federation would use time travel to prevent the Empire from ever forming."

And the always-popular "the Federation will just transport bombs into the Empire's reactors, since nothing the Empire has can stop transporters."

OK, I added those.

And the plentiful "the Federation will just employ the [one-shot superweapon of the week] that they got from the [alien of the week] to defeat Imperial troops/starships."

Got any examples?

[Darth Servo]

OK, I added those.

And the plentiful "the Federation will just employ the [one-shot superweapon of the week] that they got from the [alien of the week] to defeat Imperial troops/starships."

Got any examples?

Obviously theres the swiss army deflector dish, the nanites, the frequency of the week to pass through shields, the Tox Uthat and the phase cloak.

[Darth Wong]

OK, I added those.

And the plentiful "the Federation will just employ the [one-shot superweapon of the week] that they got from the [alien of the week] to defeat Imperial troops/starships."

Got any examples?

Obviously theres the swiss army deflector dish, the nanites, the frequency of the week to pass through shields, the Tox Uthat and the phase cloak.

Actually, I was thinking that somebody would produce quoted arguments.

[Ted C]

And the plentiful "the Federation will just employ the [one-shot superweapon of the week] that they got from the [alien of the week] to defeat Imperial troops/starships."

Got any examples?

Let's see... assorted one-episode wonders...

the soliton wave (TNG "New Ground" -- capable of destroying planets, you know)
sun-destroying torpedoes (TNG "Half a Life")
dimensional inverters (TNG "The High Ground")
interphase generators (TNG "The Next Phase" and "The Pegasus" -- we all know they kept it)
transphasic torpedoes (VOY "Endgame" -- it obviously uses interphase generator technology to bypass shields and armor!)
sentient nanites (TNG "Evolution" -- obviously they'd be willing to help)
silicon-based life-forms (TNG "Home Soil" -- they're allies now, right?)
aceton assimilators (TNG "Booby Trap" -- how hard could it be to recover one?)
Tarsian War veterans (TNG "The Hunted" -- in a Trekkie fantasy, why the hell not?)
the Stone of Gol / psionic resonator (TNG "Gambit")
Cytherian technology (TNG "The Nth Degree" -- all the Cytherians have to do is "alter" another crew member like they did Barclay to make a Federation ship invincible, right?)
alien mind control devices (TNG "The Game" -- surely the Empire would fall for it)
Borg shields (TNG "I, Borg" and very episode of VOY after 7of9 joined the crew -- obviously they can implant shield generator in anyone they want to now, right?)
Dyson sphere technology (TNG "Relics" -- the sphere must have been loaded with sophisticated technology which the Feds have surely reverse-engineered by now)
metagenic weapons (TNG "Chain of Command" -- we know they've got them)
isolitic subspace weapons (ST:Insurrection)
intron viruses (TNG "Genesis")
if all else fails, WESLEY can save them (TNG "Journey's End" -- Wesley has Q-like powers, and he has an interest in saving the Feds!)

[Ted C]

drat, forgot there was no Modify button and hit Quote instead.

[CaptainChewbacca]

In all fairness, just because something is "super" against TNG doesn't mean it would phase the Empire. A soliton wave is easily overcome, and their medical technology is a lot better.

[OmegaGuy]

8: Those clearly were not the Empire's "best troops" as they didn't even use camo armor or the AT-AT.

Wait, I always thought they didn't use any AT - ATs because they were too big and cumbersome to operate in the forest and wouldn't be able to hit targets like speeder bikes at close range.

Anyway, one I often hear is:

"I'll believe that turbolasers are 200 gigatons when you show me a single turbolaser blast creating a 200 gigaton explosion".

Of course their intent is to make up their own definition of what a 200 gigaton explosion would look like.

[Vympel]

Wait, I always thought they didn't use any AT - ATs because they were too big and cumbersome to operate in the forest and wouldn't be able to hit targets like speeder bikes at close range.

Anyway, one I often hear is:

"I'll believe that turbolasers are 200 gigatons when you show me a single turbolaser blast creating a 200 gigaton explosion".

Of course their intent is to make up their own definition of what a 200 gigaton explosion would look like.

Again, that argument is already there.

Also, it seems that it's not the place for non-canon made-up arguments on there- you know, the kind where you just need to say "bullshit, prove it" to refute it.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Karen Traviss' travesty? What's that?

[Ghost Rider]

Karen Traviss' travesty? What's that?

Honestly look in PSW. They have several topics that cover it. To put it in a bite size package, she claims that there were only 3 million troops in the entire Clone Wars.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Karen Traviss' travesty? What's that?

Honestly look in PSW. They have several topics that cover it. To put it in a bite size package, she claims that there were only 3 million troops in the entire Clone Wars.

And if you disagree with her in the slightest, she'll sue you, strangle you, and call you something called a 'Talifan'. Then you'll get banned from Star Wars Dot Com.

[Darth Wong]

I'm now midway through page 2. We're up to 34 entries now.

[Darth Servo]

On the NBC portion of your stormtrooper page, you might want to address the Rabid Stupid Asshole's arguments that stormtrooper armor isn't sealed.

[Darth Wong]

On the NBC portion of your stormtrooper page, you might want to address the Rabid Stupid Asshole's arguments that stormtrooper armor isn't sealed.

What the fuck does he base that on, since they're said to be able to withstand vacuum for brief periods?

[Darth Servo]

The turdsite is back up now.

+http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWtrooparmor.html

The pics are down at the bottom of the page. All in all, not at all convincing. First is in Bespin, Han's hand seems to pull a helmet up. Second is the trooper strangled with the ewol bolos. You can see a bit of his chin. And finally, a scout trooper's chin is visible.

But like you said, real life NBC suits aren't always sealed either.