Another attempt at explaining the philosophy of ID

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-09-19 09:20pm

I, for one, see use in the essay. From the internet and media, we have a distorted image in our minds of just how much of the population is actually strongly pro-ID. The fat, squishy middle that makes up 70% of the people (pulling that statistic from my ass) really doesn't give a shit either way. Questions about their origin just don't have enough relevance to their lives to take priority over football and beer. So if you can explain in advance why Retarded Design is bullshit, it'll be akin to an inoculation against the rhetoric of organizations like the Discovery Institute.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-19 09:33pm

I seriously don't see any point in even trying to reach the committed creationists. They're beyond reason, and if you engage in the hopeless task of trying to cater to their prejudices, you merely run the risk of avoiding or downplaying very important points that need to be brought to light.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2006-09-20 04:33am

Darth Wong wrote:
D.Turtle wrote:Well, there was just a documentary on TV about ID and it spreading to Europe. It was interesting seeing my parents reaction to it.

They very quickly dismissed the whole thing, because they perceived it as attacking christianity as a whole, and not only ID (or creationism, as its really called). You will have a similar reaction to your essay.
Is this really how most moderates think, or are your parents just idiots?

They are creationists.

Interpret that however you want to.

IMO, the problem with ID is that most people who believe it do so out of religious reasons - not because they are convinced by its "arguments". They believe God created the world - then they see ID and say - "See! I told you so!"

They have a conclusion (God created the world 6000 years ago in 6 24-hour days) and try to find "evidence" that it is so.

You can not convince them with evidence and reasoning that ID is wrong, because ID is simply a way for them to express what they already believe.

I think that there are two reasons that ID is spreading so quickly:
1) Many people believed before that God creattted the world in 6 days 6000 years ago - they simply didn't have an acceptable way of saying it.
2) The "modern" mindset - that everything has to be proven etc - is being supplanted by a post-modern mindset - one in which spirituality, belief in God(s), spirits, witches, whatever is acceptable. This also leads to an increase of people who believe not only that the Bible is the word of God written down by men and thus open to interpretations and mistakes in it, but that it is the LITERAL Word of God (a huge difference). Thus (especially) more christians belive that the Bible is literal, including Genesis - they then look for a way to express their mindset and find ID.

My guess is that only a tiny minority is convinced by the arguments of ID proponents, and thus open to being convinced by evidence that ID is wrong.

Instead one has to convince them step by step - first by making them open to lissten to one, then by convincing them that the Bible can not be completely literal in meaning, and then you can show them why ID is wrong and evolution is compatible with ones belief in God. All this time you CAN NOT attack christianity as a whole, because then they will simply ignore you.

That might be illogical and ridiculous and idiotic in your opinion, but that is how they think. You can either say "They are idiots" and leave it at that, or you can try to change their mindset step by step.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-20 08:52am

D.Turtle wrote:They are creationists.

Interpret that however you want to.

So they're idiots then.

IMO, the problem with ID is that most people who believe it do so out of religious reasons - not because they are convinced by its "arguments". They believe God created the world - then they see ID and say - "See! I told you so!"

Obviously your experiences are different from mine. In my experience, people like that are not IDers; they are full-blown hardcore creationists. IDers tend to be people who just don't understand, and who aren't particularly passionate about advocating religious ideas (real IDers, not the full-blown creationists who advocate ID in public in the hopes of getting it into public schools). Face to face, I've found that they've usually been swayed by the arguments because they're just ignorant.