Star Wars characters were deliberate Jungian archetypes?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-09-20 08:29pm

I'm reading my encyclopedia of psychotherapy, and it states that many of its characters were deliberately designed by Lucas to be representative of what are known as Jungian archetypes. Archetypes are the psychological personality models that were invented by the perfidious Carl Jung. For the record, I'm no fan of Jung, as he came up with more religion than psychology...

Anyway, it states:

anima: A personified representation of the undeveloped feminine potential in a man [Princess Leia].

animis: A personified representation of the masculine potential in a woman [Han Solo]. (What the hell?)

classical (Jungian School): Followers of Jung's original formulations. The classical school is emphasized in this article and relates Jungian analysis as less a form of therapy than a modernized Gnostic spiritual discipline: a sacred journey or quest to achieve full realization of the self. [Luke Skywalker is the hero of the quest].

Gnostism: A perennial religious philosophy that identifies God (or a god) with an interior state of "illumination" available only to initiates. Gnostic strains accompany the mystical practices of most religions. Gnostics variants of Christianity have always been the chief source of heresy in the Church's view [The Jedi Knights].

Self: The entirety of the personality encompassing both consciousness and the unconscious; an experienced unity of all archetypes; the endpoint of the individuation process. Often felt subjectively as the presence of God and so symbolized in dreams, visions, and in cultural products [The Force].

shadow: A personified representation of the personal unconscious [Darth Vader, but the 'dark father' is not typical].

type: A set of innate personality predispositions on three orthogonal axes.
* Wise old man: A personified representation of a capacity for spiritual insight and experience. Leads to the Self. [Apart from the ears, Yoda looks exactly like Carl Jung] (Yes, it really says this!)

I really don't think anyone designed Yoda to look like Carl Jung...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-09-20 08:33pm

Can a mod fix the accidental paste repeat? Thanks!

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2006-09-20 08:44pm

I think they may be speaking out their asses. They certainly are about Yoda and Jung. Though I will give them time of day if they can provide any reference to Lucas saying similar things himself.

Yoda · Post by **Yoda** » 2006-09-20 08:50pm

[Freud] Lightsabers are obviously representations of the Jedi's repressed sexual desire.[Freud]

Some people can see coincidences in almost anything.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-20 08:56pm

Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-09-20 09:38pm

Since the Campbellian monomyth is based off the idea of Jungian archetypes and Lucas basically admitted to adapting from the former, I'd say yes.

Yoda · Post by **Yoda** » 2006-09-20 09:43pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.

That would be Frank Oz.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-09-20 09:54pm

Yoda wrote:[Freud] Lightsabers are obviously representations of the Jedi's repressed sexual desire.[Freud]

Some people can see coincidences in almost anything.

It's not speaking of Freud, and it's also making a direct statement that Lucas designed them this way deliberately. It's not saying, "do the math." It's saying he did this on purpose.

I'll see if it provides the source...

salm · Post by **salm** » 2006-09-20 10:09pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.

Ermm.... i just googled this guy and they don´t think they look alike at all. Even Jung looks more like Yoda:

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-09-20 10:13pm

salm wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.
Ermm.... i just googled this guy and they don´t think they look alike at all. Even Jung looks more like Yoda:

And that guy looks more like Freud...

*head explodes*

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » 2006-09-20 10:13pm

Yoda wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.
That would be Frank Oz.

Frank Oz was the guy who did the voice of Yoda, but he didn't design him.

According to wiki, the designer (Stuart Freeborn) based Yoda's faced partly on his own face and partly on Albert Einstein's face. Unfortunately the article doesn't give a citation.

Wikipedia wrote:Yoda's appearance was originally designed by British makeup artist Stuart Freeborn, who based Yoda's face partly on his own and partly on Albert Einstein's, as his eyes are supposedly inspired by the latter.[citation needed] Yoda is voiced by Frank Oz. In the original Star Wars trilogy, he is realized as a puppet (controlled by Oz).

Here's Stuart Freeborn:

...and here's Einstein:

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » 2006-09-20 10:17pm

Fuck, here's the wikipedia link.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-09-20 10:18pm

Does look a bit more like him...

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-09-20 10:22pm

Yoda wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.
That would be Frank Oz.

umm, no. Frank Oz did not model Yoda. You are, of course, refering to Stuart Freeborn, who does look a lot like Yoda.

There is also a little Einstein in the design as well.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2006-09-20 10:47pm

Walsh wrote:
Yoda wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.
That would be Frank Oz.
Frank Oz was the guy who did the voice of Yoda, but he didn't design him.

According to wiki, the designer (Stuart Freeborn) based Yoda's faced partly on his own face and partly on Albert Einstein's face. Unfortunately the article doesn't give a citation.

There's a clip from an interview with him on the 2004 OT DVDs where he states exactly that.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-09-20 11:35pm

AK_Jedi wrote:
Yoda wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Yoda was designed to look alot like the puppeteer who moulded Yoda's face. I can't recall his name, but they did a side-by-side and now that he's older, its downright eerie.
That would be Frank Oz.
umm, no. Frank Oz did not model Yoda. You are, of course, refering to Stuart Freeborn, who does look a lot like Yoda.

There is also a little Einstein in the design as well.

Okay, that IS creepy. O_o

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-21 12:16am

SEE?! I knew I wasn't crazy. Thank you for finding that picture.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2006-09-21 08:19am

What I would point out is that stories are constructed with certain archetypes and systems in mind, how subconciously. I have no doubt that Star Wars was constructed i nthe same way - whether the Jungian archetypes are the best way of expressing this is doubtful, and it is likely those making the comparison are amateurs.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2006-09-21 04:53pm

Either that person knows nothing of Star Wars, or about Jungian psychology. Maybe both, but I'm going to go with the former just because I don't very much about Jungian psychology myself.

That the Jedi Knights would represent Gnosticism is very improbable. The connection is so loose that you could by the same reasoning say it represents pretty much any religion. That the Force would be a metaphor for the Self also seems incredibly forced. Since Lucas was purportedly inspired by Taoism, and early versions of Star Wars didn't have the Force in it all, I think we can call bullshit on this as well. The Force is supposed to bind the galaxy and people together, I think you'd have to interpret that in a very contrived way to make it mean something along the lines of a "Self".

And since George Lucas has said that he studied Joseph Campbell's Monomyth and Hero's Journey it's probably safe to call the "Classic Jungian" Gnostic spiritual journey bullshit as well. While Campbell was inspired by Jung, he saw the Hero's Journey as a rite of passage thing. And Luke's journey is almost assuredly a journey towards adulthood, and not some kind of Gnostic illumination.

And that Yoda is designed to look like Jung himself is of course complete bullshit, and he wasn't even designed by Lucas himself. It has been known for a long time that Stuart Freeborn modeled Yoda after himself and Einstein.