Is war the only way well ever achieve peace on Earth??

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2002-12-18 11:33pm

Well I have the opinion that War may be the only way to get peace on this Chaotic orb. I would think that two more World Wars may humble us to that point.
Do you think that Fighting two more World War could bring peace???

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-18 11:40pm

Unlikely. Unless we have a war to the death with one side being effectively wiped out it won't bring peace, just a nice chunk of time to breed new warriors and replenish arsenals.

Such wars have not happened between the worlds major civilizations for a long time. Some lesser ones have been pretty much exterminated in the last few hundred years though.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-12-19 01:34am

Peace is the time period between wars and is not a perminant condition. Human nature would prevent us from ever being in a state of perminant peace. The only way I can think of the "world being at peace" would be for us to have another species to focus our petty hates, greed, and jealousy on. If we found aliens, then we could hate them instead of hate each other. That or slavery.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-19 01:37am

The Earth will achieve peace in several billion years, when the Sun expands and fries the surface.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-19 02:35am

Point. Peace will only be brought about by the extermination of humanity, we will always be killing something, to eat if nothing else.
It is vaguely possible that humaniy can be forced to stop killing each other, but it will have to be forced.
Skippy Says: "I am not the atheist chaplain. "

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-19 02:38am

consequences wrote:Point. Peace will only be brought about by the extermination of humanity, we will always be killing something, to eat if nothing else.
It is vaguely possible that humaniy can be forced to stop killing each other, but it will have to be forced.
Skippy Says: "I am not the atheist chaplain. "

Wouldn't forced peace just be "don't kill people or I'll kill you?"

I see some subtle irony in that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-19 02:57am

No, all we need is for the USA to build a big ass computer called Colossus, and for the USSR to build a big ass computer called Guardian ... and for them to talk to each other and .... erm ... where have I heard this before

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-19 07:13am

The Earth will achieve peace in several billion years, when the Sun expands and fries the surface.

You get to sing me to sleep tonight.

guyver · Post by **guyver** » 2002-12-19 07:27am

Darth Wong wrote:The Earth will achieve peace in several billion years, when the Sun expands and fries the surface.

I hate to say it but Mr. Wong is very right. Humans will never have true world wide peace until we are all gone.

People just by nature, do not get along very well with each other. We are always competing with each other for food, land, money so on and so forth.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2002-12-19 07:42am

Yeah, and unless there's a serious shift in human conceptions, our natures will always predispose us towards war.

The Nice Guy

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-19 08:23am

Yes, we won't live in peace...

War is in our blood. We Cro-Magnonians killed the Neanderthalers...

We can't change so much...

We already started to cheat "natural selection" by saving every crippled, mongoloid etc. person. We give new heart valves to a person if he needs it...and these things are good.

I don't want to be sound cruel because I don't have anything against these people, instead I'm rather proud of this achievments but we have messed up everything already on the "other side". These things came with our civilization.

But what we can't leave behind is war, because it's in our blood...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-19 09:57am

I say it's a lot to us being PREDATORS.

Aside from that Peace is just something between wars to replenish supplies...and yeah Wong holds the same viewpoint I do...we'll have true peace when the Sun explodes(on Earth that is)

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-12-19 08:27pm

Whilst there will always be conflict of somesort. Could there at least be a chance of stopping open war between different groups of people on earth?

So far the most reasonable depiction of a peacefull earth would be the Earth in Babylong 5 which is governed by the Earth Alliance. They still have conflicts as you can see if you watched the show but the planet Earth itself and its people are at relative peace due to the unified of the nations and the presence of an amalgamated military force.

If Earth is to ever be "pacified" it will need a military force that represents all nations on the planet and owes loyalty to noone but the Earth itself.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-19 09:52pm

War does not settle things, it complicates things. War cannot bring peace, it was never meant to do so, it was a way of exacting will over others by using force. Greed, political, monetary, or simply to be dominant, is the stem from which war comes from, greed on both sides. India and Pakistan both want the land, they don't need the region but they want the other side to know that they own the region. I've come, on my own, to the conclusion that people don't ever change how they view the world, all the world powers act like children, squabling over toys. They start hitting eachother with other toys to try and make the other person let go, eventually they get so mad at eachother they just start going berserk. Eventually they start hurting eachother and others(read other kids, no grown ups here) pull them apart and either start taking sides or begin condesending at both of them for being childish.
Today's toy: Oil, Money
Yesterday's toy: Land, Money
Tommorrow's toy: Asteroids
(Believe me, it will hurt when they start lobbing rocks at eachother)
Real children are more honest, they will say directly that they want the toy that the other has.
Adults try to justify their actions, "We have to maintain peace in the region"(We want cheap oil), "The jews are to blame"(We want everyone to help hurt them so we can have hegemony), "Deus le Volt"(I don't want to sound like we like the Byzantines, so lets beat the turks in the name of god instead).
Note I am citing Middle Eastern examples but it has a pretty wide trend.
The only times war is justifiable are when other unjustifiable actions on the parts of enemies "forces" a reply. WWII(WWI was a pointless victorian feud that destroyed the lives of millions for the good of the royals and aristocrats), WoT(I DO NOT like to side with Bush, but there has to be a response here), War of 1812, 1776 1917 and 1790 revolutions. There may be wars I am omitting but I hope the jist is acertainable.
I must however call every war or action done by the US in response to Communist Revolutions in the past 50 years COMPLETELY unjustified, firstly they had the support of the most people involved, secondly the people placed into power were authoritarians who destroyed any hope for a sustainable social or capitalist democracy. Examples: Vietnam, Korea, Argentina, Chile, Venuzuela(Dubya that asshole tried to bumb off a democratically elected president), numerous other SA and Asian countries.
Is peace impossible?
No but religious and political fanaticism MUST go, and that will take a while. Reforming Islam into a secularized, and marginalized religion, at least more widely than it is now, will help a great deal. Islam in itself is not bad, but is unformed and volitile. If you thought that Christians were a bad combination with advanced weaponry, think about a culture that is virtually identical to 15th century Christianity.
That's all I can think of for now.

jezrianna · Post by **jezrianna** » 2002-12-23 06:48pm

As Plato said, "Only the dead have seen an end to war." I think we'd have a better chance of achieving 'World Peace' if we acknowledged humanity's propensity for violence and channelled it. You know, sort of a ritualised 'Trial by Battle' for the settling of disputes.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-12-23 09:35pm

war will go on until someone wins. one world order, no borders. . . then we find some aliens and declare war on them..

why give up such a popular tradition?

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-12-24 12:07am

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Well I have the opinion that War may be the only way to get peace on this Chaotic orb. I would think that two more World Wars may humble us to that point.
Do you think that Fighting two more World War could bring peace???

No, "peace" is that rather temporary condition that exists when people are busy looking for a good excuse (and sometimes any excuse will do) to go back to war. The only way to have peace on Earth is when humanity, like all other species that have come before it, goes extinct. At which point some other sapient life-form will undoubtedly evolve to fill the niche in nature called the "planet-dominating war-mongerer" niche.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2002-12-24 01:24am

There are two basically two types of Wars. Wars of Agession and Wars of Libetation/Freedom.

Wars of Agression are started by those governments who view force as a legitimate way to get something they cannot or do not wish to get through honest barter. In most cases it is members of a ruling class that the get the benefits of this type of war. Note that this isnt always, but usually is, something material.

Wars of Liberation are fought against those who have imposed, or wish to impose, their will through the use of force, on others. This, in my opinion, is the only moral reason to fight in a war. (Assuming of course, that the use of force isn't being used to counteract the illegitimate use of force by your "side")

The only way I forsee in eliminating War is through education. Whenwe teach people the difference between the two types of wars they will refuse to participate in any Wars of Agression, only in Wars of Liberation/Freedom. Only when people on Earth finally stop seeing force as a legimate means of conducting business will wars come to an end.

Note that this is being VERY general and I could go into much more depth on many of points made in this post. I think what I am posting is more then enough to get the point across though. Do people agree or disagree with my assessment?

Priesto · Post by **Priesto** » 2002-12-24 01:57am

no.In general, war is only a temporary solution.If people don't change, their methods on dealing with certain situations will not.

SeebianWurm · Post by **SeebianWurm** » 2002-12-24 01:59am

There was no "yes/no" question asked, Priesto. Please clarify.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-12-24 03:20am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:There are two basically two types of Wars. Wars of Agession and Wars of Libetation/Freedom.

Wars of Agression are started by those governments who view force as a legitimate way to get something they cannot or do not wish to get through honest barter. In most cases it is members of a ruling class that the get the benefits of this type of war. Note that this isnt always, but usually is, something material.

Wars of Liberation are fought against those who have imposed, or wish to impose, their will through the use of force, on others. This, in my opinion, is the only moral reason to fight in a war. (Assuming of course, that the use of force isn't being used to counteract the illegitimate use of force by your "side")

The only way I forsee in eliminating War is through education. Whenwe teach people the difference between the two types of wars they will refuse to participate in any Wars of Agression, only in Wars of Liberation/Freedom. Only when people on Earth finally stop seeing force as a legimate means of conducting business will wars come to an end.

Note that this is being VERY general and I could go into much more depth on many of points made in this post. I think what I am posting is more then enough to get the point across though. Do people agree or disagree with my assessment?

wouldnt education just increase the width and depth of battle?

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-24 12:56pm

SeebianWurm wrote:There was no "yes/no" question asked, Priesto. Please clarify.

The topic is what he was answering to probably.

But I believe that war can end when there is nothing earthly that can satisfy the ruling classes or when order and balance can be achieved world wide. The latter is more likely as all countries advance in technology, bringing everyone in closer contact, it'll be harder to dehumanize the "enemy" to the point that an entire people would want to go to war. That is why Americans are hesitant to go to war with Iraq, because the information is not present and the ability to fake the information is harder than ever before because security is uncertain in all government agencies. Quite simply the internet has the power to stop wars, given enough time and bandwidth. Informed people are less likely to go to war for the first of Blackberry's reasons.

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2002-12-24 02:55pm

Perhaps, more likely though we'd have to encounter some extraterrestial species we could fight.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-24 03:07pm

If there's ANY possible reason for World Peace it will not come about through more wars. We've had over 6000+ years of that and it hasn't done any good.

The key? Money. If two contries are trading with each other and making tons of money doing so, and it's citizens are happy with it and traveling between the countries, then war suddenly becomes un-porfitable. The benefit of peace is the ability to trade. The more that benefit becomes, the less incentive people will have to go to war.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-24 03:08pm

I think the closest thing to complete peace between humanity we will ever achieve- barring some Turtledove-esque alien invasion- is something similiar to the Pax Romana. One government with such a large and powerful army and such a high standard of living that it can easily crush what few revolts or insurrections occur.

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Is war the only way well ever achieve peace on Earth??

Is war the only way well ever achieve peace on Earth??

Re: Is war the only way well ever achieve peace on Earth??