So many words, so little intelligence ...

[Darth Wong]

Check out this E-mail I just got:

I've thoroughly read through your analysis of a potential Empire vs. Federation conflict, and I agree with some points that you make. However, I feel that the Federation would have many key advantages and thusly a conflict between the two sides would be a prolonged and fairly even match rather than it being brief and one-sided. I have envisioned an interesting scenario in which the Empire invades and attempts to conquer the Federation.

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

On the point of accuracy, it is important to note that Federation starships can pin-point a single system on a ship, and fire a perfect shot. This was demonstrated in the beginning of First Contact when Picard was able to use his memory of Borg ship design to destroy a massive Borg Cube with a single shot.

The Empire however, has highly limited accuracy. In "A New Hope", when the Rebels attacked the Death Star, small fighters were able to evade multiple shots from enemy turrets that were manned by human gunning crews (who apparently have a high tendency to miss). Thusly a small probe could get quite close to an Imperial starship for a long period of time and have a high probability of staying out of harm's way.

2. The Federation would have a rather distinct advantage in ground combat. In AOTC, Imperial Troopers engaged Jedi forces. Due to the Empire only firing single laser shots (no spread or wide-arced weapons), the Jedi were able to destroy all shots fired at them (or most of the shots) with their lightsabers. From this we can conclude that the Empire has no weapons which are capable of spreading their firepower over a large area.

The Federation however has phasers that can fire in rather large arcs, and take out fairly large groups of enemies.

3. Short-range Transportation. The Empire must use physical transports (which are fairly slow and subject to enemy fire) to transport their forces. The Federation however can simply use transporters to near-instantaneously redistribute their forces at will, which could be highly useful in ground battles.

4. Medical Technology. Federation medical technology is indisputidly better than the medicine of the Empire. There are quite a few examples of this. As seen in the Voyage Home, the Federation is able to do a wide-variety of medical treatments with no incisions. Limbs and skin can be rebuildt without surgery, and by only using the external medical devices.

However, as seen in Revenge of the Sith, the burns sustained were nearly fatal, and it required a massive crew of surgeons to rebuild him with cybernetic parts. Also, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke must be soaked in Bacta and given a robotic arm (both quite time-consuming) after his injuries.

5. The Federation has biological warfare. In the Voyager episode "Scorpion Part II" the Federation medical crew were able to (with some Borg Cooperation) create a series of Nano-probes able to effectively kill Species 8472 in a rather short period of time (well under a month). You could argue that this requires Borg assistance, however considering that this event occured prior to the Empire-Federation conflict in question, we can conclude that the Federation still has that knowledge of developing nano-probes (as they were used extensively on Voyager in many instances).

Another example of Biological warfare is Section 31 developing a virus that was able to bring massive destruction to the Dominion people. It seems highly probable that a desperate Federation would be willing to use biological warfare to defeat the invading Imperial forces.

This is my basic run-down of how I believe a Federation-Imperial Conflict would play out:

The Empire would sen out its initial fleets, which would wreak havok upon the Federation forces (who of course have vastly weaker weaponry and are much slower). Captured Federation ships would contain data about the location of Earth and key Federation bases. The Empire, with their fast ships, would most likely decide to destroy the Federation as quickly as possible without allowing them a chance to retreat.

I believe, however, that the Federation would recognize the strength of the Empire early on, and would mobilize and reposition several key military officers, research stations, and ships to hidden locations. Under this scenario, it seems likely that the Federation would decide to deploy Phasic Cloak on all of their ships and stations as quickly as possible.

Allow the Federation would be able to remove key forces from the Empire's path of destruction, the Earth, Vulcan, and several other key planets would be first on the Imperial chopping block, and would be quickly captured/destroyed.

The Federation would then move to a military form of governance, relocating key bases to the center of planets (having the station under full phasic cloak of course), planning to strike back against their invaders.

The Federation would send envoys to Klingon and Romulus to warn them of the impending threat and to mobilize a task force. Its this task force that plans a guerrilla war to recapture their Galaxy.

Meanwhile, the Empire would set up bases on Earth and several other key planets and radiate from those spheres of power, with little opposition in their path. However, along the way, Federation forces would win a few battles against small scouts using their precision weapons and would be able to beam aboard their ships and capture Imperial crewmen, taking them back to Section 31 bases.

The Federation would then be able to, in their small outposts, build up small fleets to push their advantage against the Empire.

Using small fleets that would decloak and transport boarding parties (using transporters) onto Imperial vessels, the Federation would be able to strike their first blows against Imperial naval superiority. Although superior Imperial firepower would be able to quickly destroy the Federation ships after they uncloaked, the boarding party would presumably be able to wreak considerable havok (considering how precise of control the Federation has over the destination of the boarding party).

The war would continue for some time, with the Empire sending fleets to destroy important Alpha Quadrant planets/bases and the Federation destroying Imperial ships with unconventional warfare.

However, with some time, Section 31 would be able to construct a series of nanobots which effectively kill Imperial crewsman, and would be able to build numerous viruses targeted at organisms with specific DNA (as they did against the Dominion).

Using small boarding parties to distribute the nanobots, the Federation would begin to decimate the Imperial fleet. With more and more races in the Milky Way (Species 8472, Organians) aware of the threat posed to them by the Empire (and thusly beginning their own resistances), the Imperial forces would find themselves in dangerous territory. Due to the immense size of the Empire, they'd be able to acquire many reinforcements, however the Federation boarding crews with their engine/weapons sabotage would be able to severely damage supply lines.

Eventually as attempts to quarantine the viruses and nano-bots of Section 31 fail, the Empire is forced to reconsider the feasibility and costs of conquering the Federation.

The Federation then launches the first major naval resistance of the conflict, planning to destroy the Imperial main base situated at Earth. The Empire realises they are under attack when they see a string of Federation ships decloaking and realise that the Federation has launched an attack. They rush their forces to combat an attack which they believe is aimed at their engines (where Federation crewmen would place bombs), but they soon realise that the crew men are aiming to take over the bridge. Many more Federation star ships continue to uncloak, running fast flight patterns over the Star Destroyer, largely evading gun crews, and placing precise shots at key ship systems.

In the end the Federation boarding parties take over several large Star Destroyers and use their powerful gun emplacements against the Imperial navy. Combined with the small Federation fighters, as well as the manpower losses the Empire has suffered due to previous biological warfare, the Empire is forced to retreat.

After this decisive blow, the Empire is forced to the table, and a peace is negotiated. The Empire and the Federation agree to become allies and embark upon a process of cultural, technological, and economic exchanges which improve the standard of living dramatically in the cultures of both peoples. They soon become good trading partners and embark upon a process of demilitarization and using their vast resources to fight poverty, disease, and homelessness in both their galaxies

So yeah, the Federation would win...


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You've got to love the sweeping non-sequiturs he employs as the basis of his argument, such as his "computers = perfect targeting" idiocy. One has to wonder how old he is. Enjoy dismembering it for target practice, folks.

[Shinova]

People still do that?

I thought SW vs ST debates died like...... a long time ago.

[Darth Wong]

People still do that?

I thought SW vs ST debates died like...... a long time ago.

Only among intelligent people. Intelligent people dismissed creationism over a century ago. Stupidity, on the other hand, never gives up.

[Stark]

Sorry, I only got as far as 'Picard killed cube in FC with a single shot'. Did he watch the movie? Even the E-E alone fired more than once!

But yeah, I wonder how he'd react when you point out that we use computers for targetting NOW. I guess we never miss.

[Ghost Rider]

Check out this E-mail I just got:

Ah, the monthly chicken.

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

That's why the Defiant and the Enterprise demonstrated this 100% accuracy so often.

On the point of accuracy, it is important to note that Federation starships can pin-point a single system on a ship, and fire a perfect shot. This was demonstrated in the beginning of First Contact when Picard was able to use his memory of Borg ship design to destroy a massive Borg Cube with a single shot.

Not because they hit a general area. And really we saw how many times the Federation missing targets...I'd hope with the Borg they don't miss, given it's the broad side of a barn.

The Empire however, has highly limited accuracy. In "A New Hope", when the Rebels attacked the Death Star, small fighters were able to evade multiple shots from enemy turrets that were manned by human gunning crews (who apparently have a high tendency to miss). Thusly a small probe could get quite close to an Imperial starship for a long period of time and have a high probability of staying out of harm's way.

Yup...ignore RoTJ and the Executor.

2. The Federation would have a rather distinct advantage in ground combat. In AOTC, Imperial Troopers engaged Jedi forces. Due to the Empire only firing single laser shots (no spread or wide-arced weapons), the Jedi were able to destroy all shots fired at them (or most of the shots) with their lightsabers. From this we can conclude that the Empire has no weapons which are capable of spreading their firepower over a large area.

Ignore RoTS...gotcha.

The Federation however has phasers that can fire in rather large arcs, and take out fairly large groups of enemies.

When used in simulators...oh wait, did you think that was 100% accurate in reality?

3. Short-range Transportation. The Empire must use physical transports (which are fairly slow and subject to enemy fire) to transport their forces. The Federation however can simply use transporters to near-instantaneously redistribute their forces at will, which could be highly useful in ground battles.

Which are blocked by funky emission cloud, let alone actual ECM.

4. Medical Technology. Federation medical technology is indisputidly better than the medicine of the Empire. There are quite a few examples of this. As seen in the Voyage Home, the Federation is able to do a wide-variety of medical treatments with no incisions. Limbs and skin can be rebuildt without surgery, and by only using the external medical devices.

That's why Worf had no problems with his spine? Oh wait, silly me...

However, as seen in Revenge of the Sith, the burns sustained were nearly fatal, and it required a massive crew of surgeons to rebuild him with cybernetic parts. Also, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke must be soaked in Bacta and given a robotic arm (both quite time-consuming) after his injuries.

Given his injuries...nothing in Trek would've survived. And Luke sustained enormous frostbite injuries, yet a soak...healed him completely.

And given his human limb was a completey red herring on this particular moron.

5. The Federation has biological warfare. In the Voyager episode "Scorpion Part II" the Federation medical crew were able to (with some Borg Cooperation) create a series of Nano-probes able to effectively kill Species 8472 in a rather short period of time (well under a month). You could argue that this requires Borg assistance, however considering that this event occured prior to the Empire-Federation conflict in question, we can conclude that the Federation still has that knowledge of developing nano-probes (as they were used extensively on Voyager in many instances).

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*snort* read up on Biological warfare.

Another example of Biological warfare is Section 31 developing a virus that was able to bring massive destruction to the Dominion people. It seems highly probable that a desperate Federation would be willing to use biological warfare to defeat the invading Imperial forces.

See above.

This is my basic run-down of how I believe a Federation-Imperial Conflict would play out:


*snip wank*

It's amazing they did all that in DS9 where they...oh wait they didn't.

Thanks Mike...it brightened my evening a bit .

[Lord Poe]

Well, just for old times sake...

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm0RfUGkS4

The Empire however, has highly limited accuracy. In "A New Hope", when the Rebels attacked the Death Star, small fighters were able to evade multiple shots from enemy turrets that were manned by human gunning crews (who apparently have a high tendency to miss).

El Idiota is mistaking the guns mounted in the trench for the computer controlled turbolaser towers. He also missed General Dodonna's briefing.

2. The Federation would have a rather distinct advantage in ground combat. In AOTC, Imperial Troopers engaged Jedi forces.

And I guess he watched AOTC with his head up his ass. The Empire didn't exist in AOTC. Clone soldiers fought battle droids, not Jedi.

Due to the Empire only firing single laser shots (no spread or wide-arced weapons),

Yup, completely watched AOTC through his navel.

3. Short-range Transportation. The Empire must use physical transports (which are fairly slow and subject to enemy fire) to transport their forces. The Federation however can simply use transporters to near-instantaneously redistribute their forces at will, which could be highly useful in ground battles.

Commander Wilkens official List of Things That Screw With Transporters

4. Medical Technology. Federation medical technology is indisputidly better than the medicine of the Empire. There are quite a few examples of this. As seen in the Voyage Home, the Federation is able to do a wide-variety of medical treatments with no incisions. Limbs and skin can be rebuildt without surgery, and by only using the external medical devices.

Wonder how they attatched that Ferengi's leg in DS9? Epoxy?

However, as seen in Revenge of the Sith, the burns sustained were nearly fatal, and it required a massive crew of surgeons to rebuild him with cybernetic parts.

Captain Pike. Kirk's friend from the Kodos camps. 'Nuff said.

Also, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke must be soaked in Bacta and given a robotic arm (both quite time-consuming) after his injuries.

Meanwhile, Worf was in and out of sickbay on his lunch break after his back surgery. Oh, wait... Neelix was too after he lost his lungs. Oh, wait...

5. The Federation has biological warfare.

The Krytos Trap

[Vympel]

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

Massive non-sequitur and complete bull. We've seen Federation starship weapons of all types miss on multiple occasions.

On the point of accuracy, it is important to note that Federation starships can pin-point a single system on a ship, and fire a perfect shot. This was demonstrated in the beginning of First Contact when Picard was able to use his memory of Borg ship design to destroy a massive Borg Cube with a single shot.

False. The entire fleet fired salvos into a hole hundreds of metres wide.

The Empire however, has highly limited accuracy. In "A New Hope", when the Rebels attacked the Death Star, small fighters were able to evade multiple shots from enemy turrets that were manned by human gunning crews (who apparently have a high tendency to miss).

Those guns weren't designed to shoot at fighters. Further, human gunning crews (with computer assistance- i.e. "predictors"- ANH novel) evade Star Trek's embarassing tendency where one hit knocks out every single weapon on the ship.

Thusly a small probe could get quite close to an Imperial starship for a long period of time and have a high probability of staying out of harm's way.

Massive non-sequitur. Nothing to do with his "highly limited accuracy" claim.

2. The Federation would have a rather distinct advantage in ground combat.

:lol::lol:

In AOTC, Imperial Troopers engaged Jedi forces.

No, they didn't. The Empire didn't exist in AotC.

Due to the Empire only firing single laser shots (no spread or wide-arced weapons), the Jedi were able to destroy all shots fired at them (or most of the shots) with their lightsabers. From this we can conclude that the Empire has no weapons which are capable of spreading their firepower over a large area.

I suppose he missed all the rapid-firing blasters we've seen in the movies- you know, just like real-life machine guns. But, like most idiots, he has no knowledge of real life asides from Star Trek, and so assumes "wide-beam" phasers (which are virtually never used, and not once in actual ground combat) are the standard by which to judge.

The Federation however has phasers that can fire in rather large arcs, and take out fairly large groups of enemies.

Funny how that never happens.

3. Short-range Transportation. The Empire must use physical transports (which are fairly slow and subject to enemy fire) to transport their forces. The Federation however can simply use transporters to near-instantaneously redistribute their forces at will, which could be highly useful in ground battles.

Unless they're jammed, when they're reduced to pussy-ass hoppers, as we saw in actual ground combat.

4. Medical Technology. Federation medical technology is indisputidly better than the medicine of the Empire. There are quite a few examples of this. As seen in the Voyage Home, the Federation is able to do a wide-variety of medical treatments with no incisions. Limbs and skin can be rebuildt without surgery, and by only using the external medical devices.

However, as seen in Revenge of the Sith, the burns sustained were nearly fatal, and it required a massive crew of surgeons to rebuild him with cybernetic parts. Also, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke must be soaked in Bacta and given a robotic arm (both quite time-consuming) after his injuries.

Non-sequitur, again. What does one have to do the other? Where's the evidence of Star Trek dealing with such massive burns better?

5. The Federation has biological warfare. In the Voyager episode "Scorpion Part II" the Federation medical crew were able to (with some Borg Cooperation) create a series of Nano-probes able to effectively kill Species 8472 in a rather short period of time (well under a month). You could argue that this requires Borg assistance, however considering that this event occured prior to the Empire-Federation conflict in question, we can conclude that the Federation still has that knowledge of developing nano-probes (as they were used extensively on Voyager in many instances).

Handwaving no-evidence assertion, and stupid to boot. The Empire is a*human* organization. What a brillaint idea this is, eh?

Another example of Biological warfare is Section 31 developing a virus that was able to bring massive destruction to the Dominion people. It seems highly probable that a desperate Federation would be willing to use biological warfare to defeat the invading Imperial forces.

And promptly massacre themselves in the process.

I believe, however, that the Federation would recognize the strength of the Empire early on, and would mobilize and reposition several key military officers, research stations, and ships to hidden locations. Under this scenario, it seems likely that the Federation would decide to deploy Phasic Cloak on all of their ships and stations as quickly as possible.

Nothing like pulling out lost, never deployed again tech.

Meanwhile, the Empire would set up bases on Earth and several other key planets and radiate from those spheres of power, with little opposition in their path. However, along the way, Federation forces would win a few battles against small scouts using their precision weapons and would be able to beam aboard their ships and capture Imperial crewmen, taking them back to Section 31 bases.

How incredibly useless.

Using small fleets that would decloak and transport boarding parties (using transporters) onto Imperial vessels

I hope those boarding parties have tens of thousands of men to overcome the Stormtrooper contingents.

the Federation would be able to strike their first blows against Imperial naval superiority. Although superior Imperial firepower would be able to quickly destroy the Federation ships after they uncloaked, the boarding party would presumably be able to wreak considerable havok (considering how precise of control the Federation has over the destination of the boarding party).

When your tactic for winning a war is boarding countless enemy ships with transporters, you know you're in trouble.

However, with some time, Section 31 would be able to construct a series of nanobots which effectively kill Imperial crewsman, and would be able to build numerous viruses targeted at organisms with specific DNA (as they did against the Dominion).

Oh brother ...

Using small boarding parties to distribute the nanobots, the Federation would begin to decimate the Imperial fleet. With more and more races in the Milky Way (Species 8472, Organians) aware of the threat posed to them by the Empire (and thusly beginning their own resistances), the Imperial forces would find themselves in dangerous territory. Due to the immense size of the Empire, they'd be able to acquire many reinforcements, however the Federation boarding crews with their engine/weapons sabotage would be able to severely damage supply lines.

Eventually as attempts to quarantine the viruses and nano-bots of Section 31 fail, the Empire is forced to reconsider the feasibility and costs of conquering the Federation.

The Federation then launches the first major naval resistance of the conflict, planning to destroy the Imperial main base situated at Earth. The Empire realises they are under attack when they see a string of Federation ships decloaking and realise that the Federation has launched an attack. They rush their forces to combat an attack which they believe is aimed at their engines (where Federation crewmen would place bombs), but they soon realise that the crew men are aiming to take over the bridge. Many more Federation star ships continue to uncloak, running fast flight patterns over the Star Destroyer, largely evading gun crews, and placing precise shots at key ship systems.

In the end the Federation boarding parties take over several large Star Destroyers and use their powerful gun emplacements against the Imperial navy. Combined with the small Federation fighters, as well as the manpower losses the Empire has suffered due to previous biological warfare, the Empire is forced to retreat.

After this decisive blow, the Empire is forced to the table, and a peace is negotiated. The Empire and the Federation agree to become allies and embark upon a process of cultural, technological, and economic exchanges which improve the standard of living dramatically in the cultures of both peoples. They soon become good trading partners and embark upon a process of demilitarization and using their vast resources to fight poverty, disease, and homelessness in both their galaxies

So yeah, the Federation would win...

Shoot me now. My brain hurts.

[Morilore]

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

Oh my God

On the point of accuracy, it is important to note that Federation starships can pin-point a single system on a ship, and fire a perfect shot. This was demonstrated in the beginning of First Contact when Picard was able to use his memory of Borg ship design to destroy a massive Borg Cube with a single shot.

Did he actually watch First Contact?

2. The Federation would have a rather distinct advantage in ground combat. In AOTC, Imperial Troopers engaged Jedi forces.

...has he watched either Star Wars or Star Trek?
I could go on, but really, it's the same story repeated fifty times. It's like he watched everything half-asleep.

[Stark]

I really want to send a personal message to this guy. He's read the site, he's obviously found the forums, he may already be signed up. Please, show up and defend your claims. Things like using a line from the Borg to prove the Federation never miss (without addressing any of the misses, targetting problems, slow rof events or whatever) really show that you need to experience an actual debate with non-teenagers.

People grow through challenge: challenge yourself. Join SDN.

[atg]

I really want to send a personal message to this guy.

Alex6200@gmail.com

[Darth Servo]

This tard isn't worth anyone's time. Just send him a link to Wayne's Trekmiss video along with a pic of the targeting computer seen in ROTS as well as on tiny little X-wings in ANH.

[Darth Servo]

I'm not sure why but I responde to the tard, using a little inspiration from the other people who posted in this thread.

So, you think Trek ships never miss, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm0RfUGkS4

Also, SW ships are NOT manually targeted. We saw
targeting computers in AOTC, ROTS and way back in ANH
on a tiny little X-wing. As for the Death Star not
hitting rebel fighters; those guns were designed to
hit CAP SHIPS, not fighters; or did you sleep through
the breifing right before the battle?

You also ignore all the things that block Trek
transporters, INCLUDING SHIELDS. You also ignore the
fact that borg nanoprobes need to be directly injected
into the target.

ROTS showed wide spread fire from hand blasters.

And your "highly precisse" phasers that supposedly
pinpoint single systems can easily be explained by the
fact that Trek ships routinely get several systems
disabled by minor damage to one part of the ship
showing an utter lack of redundancy and
diversification in their design (in other words,
engineering incompetance) rather than pinpoint
accuracy of the weapons.

No one in the Federation would even think about using
bioweapons since both sides are comprised of humans
and a chemical/bacteria/etc that would kill imperials
would be just as deadly to the Federation. And what
makes you think that Imperial attempts to stop such an
attack would fail? Your personal say-so?

Medical tech: if the Feds tech was as advanced as you
say, why did Nog get an ARTIFICIAL leg instead of
growing a new one? Why didn't they just grow a new
set of lungs for Nelix when his original ones were
stolen?

As for SW med tech, we have NEVER seen anyone in Trek
resucitated after receiving 3rd degree burns over 90%
of their body like those Anakin suffered. Or do you
think all burns are as insignificant as a little
redness on your finger from touching the stove? Luke
had severe hypothermia and was COMPLETELY HEALED.
Meanwhile we've NEVER seen anyone in Trek sustain that
serious an injury. Infact SW medical tech is SO
advanced that most of one's body can be replaced with
cybernetics (General Grevious).

As for your tactics, WHAT phase cloak? The Romulans
would have insisted that the only working prototype
was destroyed after Picard revealed it to them.

What makes you think that the Federation would ever be
able to board Imperial ships given the fact that the
Imperials have far MORE experience in boarding
operations than the Federation does. Why do you think
that Imperial ship internal security is a sparse as
Federation internal security? Just because Federation
personnel need to rush from the bridge to whereever
the boarding is taking place doesn't mean every OTHER
sci-fi navy is so incompetant. Imperial ships have
troops all over the place, as well as battle droids
for protection.

In your "small outposts" of Federation resistance that
are to "build up small fleets", where are they going
to get the RESOURCES to build these fleets? All
Federation production facilities will be either
destroyed or captured by the Imperial invasion. You
can't just move a ship yard around. You can't just
hide a mining colony.

Another point: Species 8472 isn't IN the Milky Way
galaxy. They come from a parallel universe and
therefore aren't threatened by the Imperial invasion
at all and therefore wouldn't come to the rescue. And
the Organians never did anything to stop the Dominion
war, the borg attacks, the Fed war with the
Cardassians, Romulans or even subsequent fighting with
the Klingons. Why should they change now?

HOW would the Feds damage Imperial supply lines.
Hyperdrive is so fast that the Imperials don't NEED
supply lines. And even if they did, Fed ships would
never CATCH the supply convoy due to the vastly
superior speed of hyperdrive. By the way, did you
develope a severe case of amnesia regarding supply
lines when wanking over your remote isolated hidden
Federation bases that are supposed to build entire
FLEETS in secret? Are you even ATTEMPTING to apply
the same standards to both sides?

What makes you think any Federation resistance attack
against Imperial occupied Earth will have any success
when one of the FIRST things the Empire will do is
install planetary shields over anything they want to
protect?

In short, every single one of your tactics is nothing
but fanwank and assumes everything works flawlessly
for the Federation. Do I really need to explain why
plans requiring flawlessness are doomed to failure?

Darth Servo

Stardestroyer.net board denizen.

Any comments/criticisms?[/quote]

[Imperial Overlord]

ROTS showed wide spread fire from hand blasters.

I think this should be rephrased to make it clear you're refering to autofire (something you might want to mention we've never seen from a Federation hand phaser).

On the phase cloak and other one shot wonders, mention that they weren't used even when facing the overwhelming threat of Dominion conquest.

[Vympel]

On the "board all their ships" absurdity, I would note that it would take an overwhelming number of men to overcome the almost 10,000 stormtroopers onboard, never mind the rest of the crew. And they don't have the ships to beam such a volume of men onboard in time.

[Vympel]

As an aside, there's always the chance that one will just blithely dismiss Stormtroopers based on "they get beaten by Ewoks, neener neener" bollocks. Asides from pointing out this is but one incident, its always good tactics (and immensely hilarious) to watch them sputter and make excuses for how a pack of Ferengi took over the Enterprise-D in a matter of minutes, encountering virtually no resistance.

Also, the "they'd have an advantage in ground combat because of widebeam phasers argument" is absurd given that Imperial troops have actual automatic weapons, a range of support arms, and most importantly, shitloads of vehicles.

[Darth Wong]

On the "board all their ships" absurdity, I would note that it would take an overwhelming number of men to overcome the almost 10,000 stormtroopers onboard, never mind the rest of the crew. And they don't have the ships to beam such a volume of men onboard in time.

Not to mention the fact that they can only beam so many men at a time, and in all likelihood, the ISD captain would forestall any such plan without even realizing it, by following SOP and turning on his ECM.

[Darth Fanboy]

Look at it this way, you needed arguments for the main site, and soemwhere a turd just happened to be floating in a toilet bowl with wireless internet and gave you all of these "interesting" tidbits.

I eagerly await his response and/or feeble attempt at rebuttal.

[Stofsk]

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

The guy referenced a scene where the Enterprise's q-torps fire and miss the Phoenix as example of stunning accuracy?

[Stark]

Oh but because the Queen said, we know that they never miss. THE QUEEN SAID! DISREGARD ALL MISSES! She said man, debate over.

[Darth Wong]

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

The guy referenced a scene where the Enterprise's q-torps fire and miss the Phoenix as example of stunning accuracy?

Ah, but the Borg Queen was surprised that they missed, which logically means they must normally have perfect accuracy! By the same token, if I shoot at fish in a barrel and I miss and I'm surprised at missing, then I must be able to score world-record kills with a sniper rifle from 5 km away. Especially if I have a calculator with me

[Frank Hipper]

So, the Federation is going to whip up a batch of nanotechnology-bioweapons that target Imperial crews, eh?

You know, those human Imperial crews?

Doesn't he see the problem here?

[evangelion1]

maybe he thinks the the empire will force nonhumans to crew the ships

[Ryushikaze]

No. Thinking is decidedly not what this man is doing.

Yeah. I didn't make it past the first paragrah for nearly falling out of my chair laughing (which could have been problematic, as I was sliding parts into my desktop at the time (I have two computers now, yay).

I've seen people shoot themselves in the foot before, and heck, I like to debate in ways that encourage it, but man, he was quick about it.

[Kane Starkiller]

For all of his idiotic arguments this is the part that really gets me:

After this decisive blow, the Empire is forced to the table, and a peace is negotiated. The Empire and the Federation agree to become allies and embark upon a process of cultural, technological, and economic exchanges which improve the standard of living dramatically in the cultures of both peoples. They soon become good trading partners and embark upon a process of demilitarization and using their vast resources to fight poverty, disease, and homelessness in both their galaxies

The ultimate Trekkie fanboy fantasy: After defeating a far more powerful enemy with superior intelect and fancy gadgets the Federation shows it's ultimate superiority by agreeing to make peace.

[NecronLord]

1. The first key Federation advantage is accuracy. Federation starships use computers for aiming, and thusly are perfectly precise. One example of this is in the movie First Contact, when the Enterprise-E fires and misses the Phoenix. Because the Borg Queen knows immediately that this is the result of sabotage, we can assume that Federation starships never miss.

Absolutely. Shadow Vessels reputedly never miss, due to using continuous fire to ensure they hit something with almost every shot, with rare exceptions. Wait a minute, he's talking about Star Trek... Has he actually seen it?