Observations about Terminator

[Vympel]

Having just recently watched T/T2 again, I thought I'd post on the topic

Tech Comments

- Skynet forces night-vision capability is woefully inadequate: Kyle Reese points out that the Resistance do not move around during the day at all, but do move around at night, despite Skyney forces using 'infrared'. Compare to today's 2nd and 3rd generation thermal imagers and image intensification technology, which is so good that on a main battle tank it is preferred to use thermal imaging even during the day. This tech hasn't advanced much over the next few decades, and judging from the Terminator's POV shots the T-800 at least doesn't use thermal imaging but image intensification only.

- The weaponry of the Resistance forces and Skynet is odd- human resistance forces carry modern style weapons with magazines/ ammo belts etc and some are instantly recognizeable- e.g. M2HB .50 caliber machine guns that fire those strange pulses.

- T-800 units can be easily jammed so as to make their ability to track ineffective- re: the factory equipment in Terminator, as Reese tells Sarah.

- Skynet Hunter-Killers/ tanks are designed for killing infantry and lightly armed vehicles exclusively. The tanks are extremely tall by modern standards, towering over the field of battle to get a good view with which to fire those strange pulse weapons.

- Skynet tanks are extremely vulnerable to destruction to explosives placed under the track- power generation/ locomotive systems are probably close to the tracks.

- Skynet aircraft are extremely vulnerable to anything: we see a Hunter-Killer blown out of the sky very easily by what is clearly a Stinger man-portable SAM- this is equipped with a mere 3kg high explosive warhead.

Continuity

- In Terminator Reese explains that Skynet sends the 'new' T-800 back through time to kill Sarah Connor as a final act- because they had destroyed the 'defense grid' (what does that mean?) and they had won.

- The time machine was destroyed after Reese went through

- If that is so, how did Skynet manage to send a T-1000 advanced prototype, and more importantly, when did it send it?

- What effect does T3 have on continuity.

Anyone else feel free to post observations.

[NecronLord]

Having just recently watched T/T2 again, I thought I'd post on the topic

Tech Comments

- Skynet forces night-vision capability is woefully inadequate: Kyle Reese points out that the Resistance do not move around during the day at all, but do move around at night, despite Skyney forces using 'infrared'. Compare to today's 2nd and 3rd generation thermal imagers and image intensification technology, which is so good that on a main battle tank it is preferred to use thermal imaging even during the day. This tech hasn't advanced much over the next few decades, and judging from the Terminator's POV shots the T-800 at least doesn't use thermal imaging but image intensification only.

~In that version the judgement day happened in '97 Not much major development post apocalypse

- The weaponry of the Resistance forces and Skynet is odd- human resistance forces carry modern style weapons with magazines/ ammo belts etc and some are instantly recognizeable- e.g. M2HB .50 caliber machine guns that fire those strange pulses.

~Meh. Get over it. Stormtroopers use a converted british carbine last time i checked.

- T-800 units can be easily jammed so as to make their ability to track ineffective- re: the factory equipment in Terminator, as Reese tells Sarah.

~How would you design a superior version?

- Skynet Hunter-Killers/ tanks are designed for killing infantry and lightly armed vehicles exclusively. The tanks are extremely tall by modern standards, towering over the field of battle to get a good view with which to fire those strange pulse weapons.

~Yes, that is strange

- Skynet tanks are extremely vulnerable to destruction to explosives placed under the track- power generation/ locomotive systems are probably close to the tracks.

~It was destroyed? I thought he just blew the tracks off.

- Skynet aircraft are extremely vulnerable to anything: we see a Hunter-Killer blown out of the sky very easily by what is clearly a Stinger man-portable SAM- this is equipped with a mere 3kg high explosive warhead.

Continuity

- In Terminator Reese explains that Skynet sends the 'new' T-800 back through time to kill Sarah Connor as a final act- because they had destroyed the 'defense grid' (what does that mean?) and they had won.

~He means the external flesh, not the skeletor version. IIRC the defense grid is skynets nodes for controlling its minions and directing them. It is linked by sattelite and land line with colarado Skynet. I have no clue how much of his claims of having won are true. Certainly Skynet is very intelligent. More likely it just moved house.

- The time machine was destroyed after Reese went through

~? it was? what about T2 arnie?

- If that is so, how did Skynet manage to send a T-1000 advanced prototype, and more importantly, when did it send it?

~Mayhaps it built another time machine in its new location, see above

- What effect does T3 have on continuity.

~ Only read a few very unrilable scripts, and as such really can't say.

Anyone else feel free to post observations.

[Vympel]

In that version the judgement day happened in '97 Not much major development post apocalypse

Come on, obvious energy weapons, advanced pacification aircraft etc. but crap night-vision? We have better stuff now.

Meh. Get over it. Stormtroopers use a converted british carbine last time i checked

Except effort was taken to modify them so they don't look like that anymore. I'm just wondering out loud as to why obvious modern weapons whose appearnace hasn't been changed a whit have become energy weapons.

How would you design a superior version?

Don't you think you're being a bit defensive? This is like saying warp cores are unstable and getting a "how would you design a better one" retort. How much interference can factory equipment possibly produce? Unless of course by 'tracking' Reese meant sound, but this doubtful, he doesn't seem given to technobabble- if he meant "he'll hear us", he woulda said so.

Yes, that is strange

Now you're definitely being defensive. The obvious conclusion is the resistance has no armored vehicles, that's all.

It was destroyed? I thought he just blew the tracks off

Just watched it less than an hour ago. It was reduced to a flaming wreck, totally combat ineffective, not just a mobility kill.

He means the external flesh, not the skeletor version. IIRC the defense grid is skynets nodes for controlling its minions and directing them. It is linked by sattelite and land line with colarado Skynet. I have no clue how much of his claims of having won are true. Certainly Skynet is very intelligent. More likely it just moved house.

Regarding designations, does this mean T-600 and T-800 are designations involving external appearance, but Cyberdyne Model 101 is the familiar chassis?

? it was? what about T2 arnie?

That's what Reese said, the moment he went through the place was blown sky-high. We can only assume that the Resistance was fought off, or Skynet simply moved house and built another one somewhere else- but close enough to the Resistance to get there again and pull the same stunt. It's more likely that they were fought off IMO.

Oh, one thing I forgot about

The T-800 in T2 says that Skynet launches the US arsenal at Russian targets, the counterattack destroying 'it's enemies' over here. Obvious questions:

- Any Skynet launch would've been detected, and the incoming counterattack certainly would've been. It is impossible that the entirety of US military forces were wiped out. One can only theorize that perhaps civil war broke out?

- What about other nations? Where do they fit in? Does Skynet control extend across the planet, or merely North America?

[Sir Sirius]

- The weaponry of the Resistance forces and Skynet is odd- human resistance forces carry modern style weapons with magazines/ ammo belts etc and some are instantly recognizeable- e.g. M2HB .50 caliber machine guns that fire those strange pulses.

And Han Solo is armed with a Mauser 'broom handle', Stormies carry Sterling L2's and Leia has a Luger in ROTJ. Not to mention that Lukes lightsaber is actualy a Graflex 3-cell flash gun handle.
I really wouldn't bitch about this one too much.

[Vympel]

And Han Solo is armed with a Mauser 'broom handle', Stormies carry Sterling L2's and Leia has a Luger in ROTJ. Not to mention that Lukes lightsaber is actualy a Graflex 3-cell flash gun handle.
I really wouldn't bitch about this one too much.

What is wrong with some people? Is there some sort of uber-paranoid Terminator defense brigade out there?

Read the damn post next time.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The weapons they use are mainly Westinghouse manufactured phased plasma rifles in the 40kW range. There was a contract with the DoD near Judgement Day when General Electric and Westinghouse competed for the next gen rifle design for an experimental helium plasma projector.

The human Resistance in 2029 has no armour at all to speak of. Everything belongs to Skynet, we are damned lucky to have firearms and food letalone tanks!

Aerial HKs are light and the Mk.1 and Mk.2 versions were very lightly armoured hence the introduction of the Aerial HK Bomber. A Stinger would still blow an F-16 a decent sized hole remember.

I'll post more later, the defence grid thing was a major breakthrough though in 2029. Not many know, but we actually DO win in the end by taking out the comms stations and sat relay stations that Skynet uses.

[Vympel]

The weapons they use are mainly Westinghouse manufactured phased plasma rifles in the 40kW range. There was a contract with the DoD near Judgement Day when General Electric and Westinghouse competed for the next gen rifle design for an experimental helium plasma projector.

Anywhere I can find pics of some of the weapons?

The human Resistance in 2029 has no armour at all to speak of. Everything belongs to Skynet, we are damned lucky to have firearms and food letalone tanks!

Yup that was my observation as well.

Aerial HKs are light and the Mk.1 and Mk.2 versions were very lightly armoured hence the introduction of the Aerial HK Bomber. A Stinger would still blow an F-16 a decent sized hole remember.

Ah ok- the model we see in T/T2 is early production before Skynet got wise to their vulnerability.

I'll post more later, the defence grid thing was a major breakthrough though in 2029. Not many know, but we actually DO win in the end by taking out the comms stations and sat relay stations that Skynet uses.

So it was 2029? Wasn't it 2027? Ah crap remembering dialog from films is hard.

[Deimos Anomaly]

Why would taking out the communication grid automatically give them the win?

I mean, Terminators aren't like TF battledroids that stop going and fall apart when you destroy the control ship...

[Typhonis 1]

Actually in the comics ts much orse Skynet had all these secondary facilities and they could operate independently of the main site if it went down

[NecronLord]

Why would taking out the communication grid automatically give them the win?

I mean, Terminators aren't like TF battledroids that stop going and fall apart when you destroy the control ship...

Strategic death. Skynet'd have to rely on runners if it has no communications.

[NecronLord]

In that version the judgement day happened in '97 Not much major development post apocalypse

Come on, obvious energy weapons, advanced pacification aircraft etc. but crap night-vision? We have better stuff now.

Maybe the image processors work better like that. Maybe a better version would't go though the time machine.

Meh. Get over it. Stormtroopers use a converted british carbine last time i checked

Except effort was taken to modify them so they don't look like that anymore. I'm just wondering out loud as to why obvious modern weapons whose appearnace hasn't been changed a whit have become energy weapons.

mayhaps the resistance only have enegy weapon parts and no exterior casings.*shrug*

How would you design a superior version?

Don't you think you're being a bit defensive? This is like saying warp cores are unstable and getting a "how would you design a better one" retort. How much interference can factory equipment possibly produce? Unless of course by 'tracking' Reese meant sound, but this doubtful, he doesn't seem given to technobabble- if he meant "he'll hear us", he woulda said so.

Moi, defensive? I didn't even think this was a debate. Seriously without resorting to stupid treknobabble of the week there are few ways of tracking things. Even man portable radar is not much help in that situation. There are many moving parts and sound polloution. I would interpet tracking as sound. There is only so much one skeletor can have inside it.

Yes, that is strange

Now you're definitely being defensive. The obvious conclusion is the resistance has no armored vehicles, that's all.

I agree. Resistances are not known for their armour. I was taling about this bit

The tanks are extremely tall by modern standards, towering over the field of battle to get a good view with which to fire those strange pulse weapons.

It is an odd design

It was destroyed? I thought he just blew the tracks off

Just watched it less than an hour ago. It was reduced to a flaming wreck, totally combat ineffective, not just a mobility kill.

I have a theory on why skynet lost the war

He means the external flesh, not the skeletor version. IIRC the defense grid is skynets nodes for controlling its minions and directing them. It is linked by sattelite and land line with colarado Skynet. I have no clue how much of his claims of having won are true. Certainly Skynet is very intelligent. More likely it just moved house.

Regarding designations, does this mean T-600 and T-800 are designations involving external appearance, but Cyberdyne Model 101 is the familiar chassis?

Yes, That is the way I would take that, after all we see 101's acting like infantry, and rubber skin is mentioned for the T-600. SM Sterling (he of Draka fame) gives us the definition of those as T-100's.

? it was? what about T2 arnie?

That's what Reese said, the moment he went through the place was blown sky-high. We can only assume that the Resistance was fought off, or Skynet simply moved house and built another one somewhere else- but close enough to the Resistance to get there again and pull the same stunt. It's more likely that they were fought off IMO.

Oh, one thing I forgot about

The T-800 in T2 says that Skynet launches the US arsenal at Russian targets, the counterattack destroying 'it's enemies' over here. Obvious questions:

- Any Skynet launch would've been detected, and the incoming counterattack certainly would've been. It is impossible that the entirety of US military forces were wiped out. One can only theorize that perhaps civil war broke out?

Assuming the US armed forces weren't all automated and under Skynet's control Skynet was a control computer, prehaps it faked an incoming attack. As we know millitary are the highest nuke priority. I would imagine the military survivors helped found the resistance (those that weren't slaughtered by T-100's at any rate.

- What about other nations? Where do they fit in? Does Skynet control extend across the planet, or merely North America?

[neoolong]

Continuity

- In Terminator Reese explains that Skynet sends the 'new' T-800 back through time to kill Sarah Connor as a final act- because they had destroyed the 'defense grid' (what does that mean?) and they had won.

- The time machine was destroyed after Reese went through

- If that is so, how did Skynet manage to send a T-1000 advanced prototype, and more importantly, when did it send it?

- What effect does T3 have on continuity.

Anyone else feel free to post observations.

If I remember correctly there was an unshot/deleted scene that shows John Connor send Reese back. Then he modifies a T-800 and sends it back. Reese only knew of the plan for him to go back. Connor wouldn't have told him anything about Reese being his father or anything. As well as the later T1000. The T1000 could have been a prototype of a new series while the new T800 is simply the latest production model of that line. Connor on the other hand knows that Skynet sent two terminators back before the humans had won. Remember, we only hear about what happened from Reese's perspective, and he wouldn't have known as much as Connor did about everything. He only told Reese about one enemy terminator since Connor knows that Reese dies and so it is rather pointless to tell him about the second. Thus, Connor sends two things back, Reese and Arnie, to combat the T800-evil and the T1000. Reese is only told some info however because he doesn't need to know anything else. Connor on the other hand knows exactly what will go down and keeps things from Reese so as not to screw up his mission.

Of course how T3 will affect things is odd.

[2000AD]

*****SPOILER WARNING*****

some spoilers for:
Terminator:hunters and Killers (comic)
Terminator (comic)
(both from Darkhorse)
Terminator: Dawn of Fate (computer game)




******SPPOILER WARNING*****


Depending on whether or not you take comics and computer games qas continunuity this might answer some questions:

In Terminator: Hunters ans Killers (comic) it is revealed that in Russia there is a simular system to Skynet called MIR. After Judgement Day Skynet forms a partnership with the less sentient MIR (stripping away some of it's important files like how to make nukes) and uses MIR to control Russia. MIR is destroyed by a nuke attack shortly before COnnor's forces smash skynet in the US. The nukes are used on MIR and not Skynet because, as one character says, " Without Skynet to bottle it up MIR would spread to every computer system world wide. It would be the ultimate virus, we'd never be rid of it."

There are also two conflicting versions of SKynets continuation after Connor's forces "smashed" it:

Terminator (a comic) states that skynet has a back up facility with a backup time machine. A group of Terminators is sent back after a group of humans go back to stop Skynet being built. Coolest thing: to take a gun from the future back in time with them, the terminators shove it into a captured humans gut!

Terminator: Dawn of Fate (recent computer game) At the end of the game a satelite is shown in orbit. zooming in on one of it's control panels it shows a reboot program for skynet starting up.

[Crazy_Vasey]

The continuity thing, well blame that on Terminator 2 being a tacked on sequel. In the first film the intro said they sent one assasin, in the second it said two. Three guesses as to what the third one is gonna say

[Sea Skimmer]

Somehow the world's nuclear arsenal managed to kill 3 billion people in the Terminator Universe. That would suggest that none of the weapons limitations treaties that came into effect after 1984 happened, the older ones where abandon and there was a massive nuclear arms buildup. Bio missiles where likely redeployed by the US and USSR as well.

The Terminator universe is very devoiced from our own.

The Stinger we saw must have had a massive warhead upgrade, or Skynet uses tinfoil to build its aircraft. I'd suspect the former.

[SylasGaunt]

Personally I think it's fairly easy for T3 to get itself into continuity simply because while yes the arm and chip Cyberdyne had were destroyed there is still the matter of that arm Arnold left in the gear in T2.

According to T2: Infiltrator time is a finnicky thing and keeps trying to return to it's original course (or closesty possible match), i.e. events keep shifting so that SkyNet gets built anyway and Connor kicks the hell out of it.

[Sea Skimmer]

The T2 novel has John and Sarah collecting up all the parts the T-800 left behind and throwing them into the vat of molten steel. All Terminator EU contradicts its self beyound the two moive novels.

[Crazy_Vasey]

From what little I know of T3 there is no way in hell the Stirling novels are gonna fit with it.

Possible T3 Spoilers























Reading those novels can you honestly tell me that John was gonna stop believing in Judgement day while his mother kept believing? That John would just completely move on and leave his mother to join some militia and get herself killed? It just doesn't work. And what's happened to Dieter? There's no mention of him in the film spoilers and he was a pretty important character who didn't seem to be likely to just disappear.

[SylasGaunt]

Probably isn't going to fit but Stirling did answer a lot of problems..

As for them collecting the parts and throwing them in the furnace, does it mention the arm? The police have got to be on their way and it certainly looks like that thing would have been a bitch to get out for a normal human.

[Sea Skimmer]

Probably isn't going to fit but Stirling did answer a lot of problems..

As for them collecting the parts and throwing them in the furnace, does it mention the arm? The police have got to be on their way and it certainly looks like that thing would have been a bitch to get out for a normal human.

I'm pretty sure it did. However getting it out would be easy, the chain drive started moving again after the Terminator broke free, the arm would have gone around and fallen off it at the top, or just keep going round and round. They would need only have waited a few seconds at most before being able to get it. Then its a quick walk back to throw it in.

[Sea Skimmer]

Annoying no edit.

The Police would not be entering until they could come up with another SWAT team at the very least. After what happened at the Cyberdeny building they'd probably call for every one within 100 miles before going in or even coming close.

[SylasGaunt]

True but the thing is.. that's a damn big place to search and I doubt they know where he lost the arm at.

[2000AD]

And what's happened to Dieter?

Whoi the f*cks dieter?

[Sea Skimmer]

And what's happened to Dieter?

Whoi the f*cks dieter?

Major character in the books by S. M. Stirling. He's the human who Skynet used to get the face and appearance for the T-800's. Also happens to be a former Austrian special forces officer....

The SM books have nothing to do with the movie and will be totally devoiced from it. They where written while the T3 script was under going massive rewrites its self.

[The Prime Necromancer]

In regards to the arm:

Even if they didn't throw it away, I don't think the arm left behind by the Terminator would would hasten the development of Skynet, though it might improve robotics tech a bit. Firstly, the arm was crushed, unlike the first Terminator's arm which was unscathed. Secondly, I think Dyson made it pretty clear that it was the *chip* that primarily fascilitated the development of neural net processors and Skynet.

In regards to continuity:

Meh. As others have said, T2 didn't fit in with what was said in the original either, but people accepted it. Mainly because the movie was quite good. By all indications, this movie won't have that to fall back on.