Finally! Someone comes up with dual-format DVD's

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-09-26 01:38pm

CNN wrote:AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (Reuters) -- The format war around next generation DVDs may be over before it has begun, thanks to a breakthrough from a British media technology company.

Britain-based New Medium Enterprises (NME) said on Tuesday it had solved a technical production problem that makes it possible to produce a cheap multiple-layer DVD disk containing one film in different, competing formats.

"Current technologies to create multiple layer disks mostly don't work. We've created a technology for mass production of multiple layers that does not suffer from the well known problem of low yields," said NME Chief Technology Officer Eugene Levich.

A low yield means that many DVDs coming off the manufacturing lines are not working and have to be discarded.

The production costs of a multi-layer DVD using the new NME technology are estimated to be around 9 cents, compared with the 6 cents for a standard single-layer play-back DVD, according to Dutch company ODMS, one of the world's leading makers of production lines for optical disks.

This 50 percent cost increase compares favorably with the current generation of multi-layer recordable DVD disks which cost 3 to 5 times as much to produce than a single layer disk, due to low yields.

The technological breakthrough comes one week after three employees at movie studio Warner Bros. filed a patent for the application of multiple formats on a single DVD disc.

"There's no collision between Warner and us. They patent the application, we are patenting the technology. These are complementary patents. I'm glad it's happened. Warner opened our eyes, because it shows they really want to do this and create multi-format, multi-layer disks," Levich said.

Time Warner is the world's largest media company and owns Warner Bros. Former Warner Home Video President James Cardwell joined NME as a board member last month.
Nipped in the bud?

Multiple format DVD disks can solve the emerging war between the two new high capacity DVD formats: Blu-Ray, which is backed by Sony Corp., and Toshiba-supported HD-DVD.

High capacity DVD disks are needed to store high definition movies on a single disk. Movies stored in high definition provide five to six times more picture detail than standard definition which is used in normal DVDs.

Hollywood studios have been choosing sides in the DVD format war, each supporting one of the two formats. Some have said they will produce films in both, in addition to the standard DVD format.

By putting the same film on a single disk in the two competing formats, movie studios can save money and consumers do not have to worry if they are buying the right disk for their player.

The technological breakthrough by NME was confirmed by ODMS.

"I can confirm this. We were very skeptical when NME approached us. We have experience with producing dual layer recordable DVD discs and the yield is below 50 percent. But their technology gives a much higher yield and also brings other cost savings," said ODMS Chief Executive Jadranko Dovic.

ODMS said it will have the first prototype production line using NME's technology running by early 2007.

NME said it had also created new technology for the machines which have to read and write the disk, which is another bottleneck with multi-layer disks. The current generation of DVD players can read up to two layers.

NME has created DVD disks with up to 10 different layers that were still readable. It has created its own player, but it is willing to license the technology to mainstream consumer electronics companies, Levich said.

Movies on a DVD are stored at different depths depending on the technology. Blu-Ray discs store information only 0.1 millimeter from the surface while HD-DVD discs store it at 0.6 millimeters.

Movies longer than two hours would need to be stored on two layers of the same format very close to each other.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-09-26 02:03pm

to hell with this. I want full capacity for my fucking disc; not some half assed compromise.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-26 02:12pm

I hope HD-DVD wins, if only because I've come to loathe Sony and I want to smell the sweet fragrance of their failure. Then we won't need this dual-format nonsense and they can apply their technology to make really cheap HD-DVDs.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-09-26 03:30pm

Darth Wong wrote:I hope HD-DVD wins, if only because I've come to loathe Sony and I want to smell the sweet fragrance of their failure. Then we won't need this dual-format nonsense and they can apply their technology to make really cheap HD-DVDs.

I'm a bit torn actually. While I don't want a Sony format to win, Blu-ray failing means the PS3 WILL fail because Sony won't be able to get the drive cost down.

And I'd rather the PS3 win than Microsoft conquer yet ANOTHER market. Because when Microsoft takes over a market, very, very bad things happen. The next generation will have them monopolizing everything. Nothing against Microsoft doing well, but I don't want them to completely dominate.

Say what you will about the Wii; it's really a seperate market, people will buy an XBox 360 AND a Wii, but few will buy a PS3 AND a 360. There's only room for one between the 360 and PS3.

Between Blu-ray and HD-DVD alone, though, ignoring Microsoft and the PS3, I'd much rather HD-DVD win. Throw away another expensive Sony format, go with the lower-priced alternative backed by the DVD Forum.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-09-26 03:37pm

Please. You think Sony would roll over and let Microsoft get a stranglehold on the market after one failure? If anything, they'd suck it up (they'd better, seeing how Microsoft was willing to absorb a few billion dollars loss to get the Xbox going) and try again with the next generation.

You must think pretty highly of Microsoft if you think them winning out for one generation would lead to them "conquering" the market.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-09-26 04:22pm

If Sony backs out of the console market, someone will replace them. That's just the way it works, there's always room for two big boys in the console gaming market, because it's impossible to lock the market down and prevent someone from coming out with a better console than yours the next go-around (or at least no one has figured out a way to do it yet, and they've had 34 years).

Dominus Atheos · Post by **Dominus Atheos** » 2006-09-26 07:06pm

2 hours a layer? That sucks. I was hoping for something longer.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2006-09-29 07:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:I hope HD-DVD wins, if only because I've come to loathe Sony and I want to smell the sweet fragrance of their failure. Then we won't need this dual-format nonsense and they can apply their technology to make really cheap HD-DVDs.

Personally I hope that Both Fail. (Like the SACD and DVD Audio Format War that went on last year hoping to replace CDs)

From what I hear about HD-DVDs, However, when Compared to DVD Pic Quality, DVD upscaling HD-DVD is only marginally superior in Picture Quality including a bulky player and Slow loading screens.
Seeing as how neither format has implemented any of the perks we see in standard DVDs, I see no incentive to buy either format.

I'm waiting for HVD discs.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-09-29 07:55pm

Look at the marketting practices here. Sony failing is a /good/ thing, because it means they won't be worthless morons (hopefully) for the next round. Same with their formats. Most Sony-backed and created formats failed miserably as they tried to push it to become an industry standard. Memory Sticks? Memory Stick DUO? ATARC3?

As for consoles. I'm sick of their cheap quality, high-cost consoles with more hype than any tangible gains. It's Sony policy to officially blow stuff 300 percent out of proportion anyway.

Oh, and 450 dollar stand-alone Blu-ray DVD Player? Go to hell. I don't need to see Bloodrayne in HD period.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-09-29 08:26pm

At the risk of deraling the thread, let me say that IMHO Sony really jumped the shark when management started to focus on the content side of the company to the detriment of the hardware side.
That's why we saw such asinine things such as 'copy protection' rootkit schemes and the push for proprietary formats loaded with enough DRM to choke a horse.

I have a 27 inch 1987 model trinitron that's still going strong and has a damn good picture.
Do you think I'd get 19 years of service out of anything Sony manufactures these days?
From what I've read all over the web, I'd be lucky to get 19 months out of a new Sony TV.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-09-29 09:32pm

I don't know which format will "win", but whichever it is will be no more important than laser disc was. The tangible gains over DVD to spur a mass migration to the new format just aren't there. It will be a strictly niche, videophile format.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-30 02:02am

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I don't know which format will "win", but whichever it is will be no more important than laser disc was. The tangible gains over DVD to spur a mass migration to the new format just aren't there. It will be a strictly niche, videophile format.

The apparent difference really varies with the source material. I was watching an HD-DVD demo at Best Buy and I was completely unimpressed by the improvement in video quality on many of the sequences. But then a Chicken Little sequence came up, and that was a pure digital CGI movie so it was just unfuckingbelievable. Razor-sharp and just gorgeous. Then we saw part of Ultraviolet and I thought "ho hum" and went back to shopping for other things.

I'm willing to bet that movies shot with HD digital cameras will look considerably better on this new format. Movies shot on film often have too much grain to really look good at HD-DVD. The grain partially obscures the improvement associated with the increased resolution.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-09-30 11:10am

I've heard that some movies have a massive improvement on HD, but the same could have been said for Laserdisc vs VHS, but the timing was all wrong then and it's all wrong now. Most people have just recently upgraded their collection to DVD, and it still looks damn good to their eyes. They also don't have the HDTV's, by and large, to even utilize the new format.