My take on fixing Counter Strike

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-09-26 01:56am

After again testing the waters with Counter Strike, I have come to the conclusion that the game sucks donkey balls when compared to other "semi-realistic" shooters. The concept of the game is actualy quite nice. The problem lies in how people abuse the games "physics". An example is bunny hopping. Firing a gun in midair scoring headshots is a big fucking no-no in my book.

Another issue altogether is the unballanced nature of the AWP. Traditionaly in a game ballance works like this. A kills B. B kills C. C kills A. In CS, it takes an AWP to kill an AWP. Get enough AWPs on one side and suddenly the entire game degenerates into an AWP fest. The Riot Shield in CS 1.6 attempted to fix this, but the AWP whores screamed such bloody murder over it.

If I were to fix CS, I would make a relative handful of changes.

Remove jumping almost completely. Let people jump distances, but not really altitude. Make it impossible to fire while in the air. Make it so when you jump, your weapon is temporarily unavailable when you land. If people want to get into odd positions, they have to use a climb feature. With this they can not shoot and are vulnerable, but they can get into odd locations.

Ultimately the concept behind this is to deal with the absurd twitch shooters and bunny hopping freaks.

The other issue is a means of restricting the AWP to prevent people from abusing it. My personal thought is that the AWP can fire accurately only when a combination of three things happen. The person is stationary, scoped, and crouched. If they lack even one of these requirements the AWP is reduced in accuracy significantly. Lack 2 requirements and the AWP is practicaly worthless as the M249 is now more accurate.

Any other thoughts on improving the game? Note, I want to see things that don't change what CS was intended to be. So no "iron sights only" or similar nonsense. CS wasn't intended as a totaly realistic game.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-26 02:02am

How to fix CS:

Actually apply the fixes developed over the last seven years in other games.

All the problems of CS are problems for other shooters/mods too. Others have experimented, and there are pretty clear solutions to the truly egrarious problems like bunny hopping etc. I'm simply not sure how much the average CS tard wants those things to be fixed.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-09-26 02:04am

Screw the tards. CS is a game that deserves better. I was really hoping CS2 would come out with HL2. Thats actualy what CS needs. It needs CS2. Something new and changed, something that has learned from the other games.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-26 02:07am

But if you accept that the success of CS is due as much to the size of it's playerbase as it's featureset, then you can't just mess it around. Retard 12yos who play to use mapsploits and bunnyhop and whatever aren't going to play a CS2 where those problems are fixed.

You're aware of solutions to the big CS problems, and so am I. So are the devs. They clearly don't intend to 'fix' it, and it'll stay a stupid kiddie game with problems resolved years ago. I can see where you're coming from in a 'light shooter' sense - I can't think of any such games/mods that are better and have a decent playerbase.

I mean honestly - bunnyhopping? You can still do that? Pffft.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-09-26 02:16am

www.specialistsmod.net

Now that's a great mod. It's everything CS should be, plus mad crazy acrobatics and John Woo stunts.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-26 02:18am

It was better before the old team left and the new team broke the shit out of it in the name of appeasing the 'roffle i try to kungfu but the rifle guys just shoot me' crowd. Just like Counterstrike.

I love TS.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2006-09-26 02:32am

My change: make guns shoot where crosshairs are pointing. I don't play CS because I am tired of pointing my crosshairs right on an enemy, firing a short burst, then having somebody wildly spray at me and land a headshot.

Anyways, I thought CS had bunnyhopping removed... I know Natural Selection (Another mod I play) has just incorporated it into the game and balanced for it

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-26 02:35am

It's not about solutions: there are solutions out there, known and proven. I just don't think the CS idiots WANT the game to be fixed, made fair, made up-to-date.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2006-09-26 02:42am

Most of the people who play CS have no desire to see any improvements. They like it exactly the way it's been for all these years. If anything was changed, they'd have to do horrible things like coming up with new kinds of strategies. Can't have that.

Counter-Strike is what it is, and it shall remain that way forever. There are more than enough other games that don't share that characteristic, and we should probably actually be glad that CS exists as it is, since it's like a giant container to hold most of the newbsauce and limit it from spilling onto other stuff.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-09-26 08:26am

So if we want to look at your solutions, and a game that has them we get...Americas Army. Or any number of current 'realistic shooters'.

CS has never been realistic, and never will be, it's just a fun team based game clothed with realistic skins and weapon models. I'm still enjoying it, because it's a nice game where I can play to shut my mind off.

If I want serious team based realistic combat, I go AA.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2006-09-26 09:10am

I fix AWP whores with smoke grenades and the n00b canno... I mean, automatic shotgun.

Machine gun works as well, though they usually scream about wall hacks when I see them dive behind corners and simply start spraying through the wall.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-09-26 09:30am

Personally I think legislation should be introduced to make playing Counter Strike illegal on account of the notion that people still play that ancient, pathetic, broken, unbalanced, retarded game that was fun back in the late 1990s offends me to my very core.

Sephirius · Post by **Sephirius** » 2006-09-26 09:34am

Vympel wrote:Personally I think legislation should be introduced to make playing Counter Strike illegal on account of the notion that people still play that ancient, pathetic, broken, unbalanced, retarded game that was fun back in the late 1990s offends me to my very core.

of course, the majority of the userbase would say, if you wanted to implement more realism: roffle g0 ply Rainbwsix

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2006-09-26 09:48am

Vympel wrote:Personally I think legislation should be introduced to make playing Counter Strike illegal on account of the notion that people still play that ancient, pathetic, broken, unbalanced, retarded game that was fun back in the late 1990s offends me to my very core.

To be fair to myself, I only play it when at LAN parties and it happens to be the game of choice for the evening.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » 2006-09-26 11:45am

I still play it every now and then...

Fix 1.

BRING BACK MY SHIELD. Also, introduce a new weapon on both sides- a micro-uzi. Inaccurate and full of recoil, but one handed, allowing you to use with the tactical shield. Sure, you're going to be less accurate than pretty much everything if you fire a burst longer than three or four shots, but you won't be too busy reloading to actually help your team. Terrorists can have two.

Fix 2.

Rebalance the weapons in favour of realism. More accuracy for some, less for others. Somehow implement the P90 and Five seveN's overpenetration- Make it so that they do extra damage to armoured opponents or less to unarmoured foes. More power for a few, like the machine pistol.

People'd hate both, but they'd make for a much more interesting shooter.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-09-26 11:53am

Let me see if I get this straight - rebalance for realism, but add akimbo uzis?

Riiiight.

Let CS die already, let's see another modern shooter for Source. I'd like to see a R6-style mod for example.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-09-26 01:09pm

Hotfoot wrote:Let me see if I get this straight - rebalance for realism, but add akimbo uzis?

Riiiight.

Of course. They should just behave realistically when fired. i.e. spray bullets everywhere except where you were trying to point them.

TheFeniX · Post by **TheFeniX** » 2006-09-26 01:26pm

Alyeska wrote:Any other thoughts on improving the game? Note, I want to see things that don't change what CS was intended to be. So no "iron sights only" or similar nonsense. CS wasn't intended as a totaly realistic game.

At TacticalGamer, we try to minimalize the weakness of the game itself. Granted, we've switch over the CS: S, so it's not really apples to apples. The AWP is gone, period. The Scout does you just fine.

Bunnyhoping (exploiting the engine to gain a speed advantage) is already impossible in CS. The act of landing forces your PC to slow down considerably (or did they ever implement this in CS 1.6? Never wasted time on that game.)

We've banned what has been defined as "crack jumping." This includes jumping while firing, jumping around corners to fire. Basically, if you're jumping in any circumstance other than to move over obstacles or to dodge a grenade, you're in violation.

And we force players to actually work towards completing the map objectives, not just kill all the enemies. Basically: we can't fix the game, so we'll fix the players. Needless to say, probably over 80% of the CSS community hates TG with a passion.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2006-09-26 02:17pm

How to fix CS?

Simple, make a new @#$@$ game!

First off most CS maps suck from both a realism standpoint and a design standpoint. Want to have a CT vs T game? Fine! Then give us a dozen office buildings to fight in, a few banks, heck a few 747's, famous buildings and a few warehouses. Get some bloody floorplans, pick a few rooms and we are good to go, none of this CS_Assault and like were there's a building but 90% of the level is outside the building.

Second, lets get more weapons!

Third, Stamina bar!

Fourth, IRON BLOODY SIGHTS!
Or in other words, everything we've already see in Rainbow Six but with with the ability to take a bullet or two.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-09-26 02:56pm

Mr Bean wrote:How to fix CS?

Simple, make a new @#$@$ game!

First off most CS maps suck from both a realism standpoint and a design standpoint. Want to have a CT vs T game? Fine! Then give us a dozen office buildings to fight in, a few banks, heck a few 747's, famous buildings and a few warehouses. Get some bloody floorplans, pick a few rooms and we are good to go, none of this CS_Assault and like were there's a building but 90% of the level is outside the building.

Second, lets get more weapons!

Third, Stamina bar!

Fourth, IRON BLOODY SIGHTS!
Or in other words, everything we've already see in Rainbow Six but with with the ability to take a bullet or two.

That's not Counter-Strike. Counter-Strike never was (or at least, has not been for a very long time) about realism.

Counter-Strike has always been more or less basically a team deathmatch game.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-09-26 02:57pm

If you want a realistic Team Deathmatch game with actually usful Objectives, play Americas Army.

If you want a Team Deathmatch with guns and lots of action, play CS.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-09-26 05:25pm

Ace Pace wrote:If you want a realistic Team Deathmatch game with actually usful Objectives, play Americas Army.

If you want a Team Deathmatch with guns and lots of action, play CS.

I agree on the first point (Red Orchestra is also damn fine).

And on the second - there's any number of great games.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-09-26 07:23pm

TheFeniX wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Any other thoughts on improving the game? Note, I want to see things that don't change what CS was intended to be. So no "iron sights only" or similar nonsense. CS wasn't intended as a totaly realistic game.
At TacticalGamer, we try to minimalize the weakness of the game itself. Granted, we've switch over the CS: S, so it's not really apples to apples. The AWP is gone, period. The Scout does you just fine.

Bunnyhoping (exploiting the engine to gain a speed advantage) is already impossible in CS. The act of landing forces your PC to slow down considerably (or did they ever implement this in CS 1.6? Never wasted time on that game.)

We've banned what has been defined as "crack jumping." This includes jumping while firing, jumping around corners to fire. Basically, if you're jumping in any circumstance other than to move over obstacles or to dodge a grenade, you're in violation.

And we force players to actually work towards completing the map objectives, not just kill all the enemies. Basically: we can't fix the game, so we'll fix the players. Needless to say, probably over 80% of the CSS community hates TG with a passion.

Thats pretty much exactly what I want out of CS. Thats how people used to play once upon a time. Sadly the good players left long ago after the tards took over.

CS is still a LAN game when you can get good people and physicaly prevent idiots from ruining it.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2006-09-26 08:19pm

I'm still wondering why they haven't done what BF2 did, make it so you can't fire while jumping. So you get the choice of 'dodging' or shooting.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2006-09-26 08:28pm

Well, whatever its flaws, counterstrike has the huge advantage of convenience. Sure, I've seen games with better multiplayer... but when I want a quick round or two of killing, the obvious choice is the game with the huge list of under-30 ping servers.

So with that in mind, fundamental changes are kind of pointless. I'd mainly focus on two:

1) Nerf the damn AWP already. A one-hit kill sniper rifle is fine. A one-hit kill sniper rifle that you can fire while bunny hopping is completely unbalanced. The simple solution is to just give the AWP zero accuracy while moving, and require several seconds of standing still to get your accuracy back. In other words, make it into a sniper rifle to be used for sniping, not jumping around one-shotting people 10' away.

That deals with the abusers who bounce out around the corner beat your superior tactics with superior reflexes. I'd probably make the auto-snipers the same, but leave the scout as it is. The scout is fine, and it fits the whole tradeoff of lower damage for mobility.

2) ADD NEW MAPS. This is the big one... many of counterstrike's problems come from its poor map design. There are just way too many choke points where one person with an AWP knows exactly where your whole team is about to walk. Open the maps up, make them bigger, add alternate routes, but do something to break up the predictable attack route.

A nice bonus would be banning the 15 year olds who whine about camping every time the defending team doesn't rush out to meet the camping "attacking" team... but I think that would probably be the end of those long server lists.

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My take on fixing Counter Strike

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